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seekerz
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What indeed? Perhaps uniformly low rates (read reasonable and at least tangentially related to the actual cost of providing services).
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seekerz
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Not much future in that anymore I’m told. Direct marketing (e.g. TV ads) might be making the drug rep less necessary than in the past, particularly with all the limitations placed on perks they can give to doctors.Well, this is antidotal but I know one doc. Who shut down his office to become a drug rep. Gets paid to make high level presentations at conferences. Much happier he says no account collectables, no negotiating payment with un-employed folks, no office staff to manage.
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ComputerGeek25
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As I have stated several times before, and the posters on the left seem to ignore…Only people who live in fairy tale land believe that the Health care market is something “special”
It’s not…it is no different than the insurance market or the housing market. Everyone needs shelter the same way they need health care, and insurance is there to aid in catastrophies.
Yeah it’s a serious discussion, when you see that the rate of increase in Health Care spending increased when the amount of people using 3rd party payers to pay for Health care increase and single-payer has done very little stemming the increases in health care spending.
Is it any wonder that tuition costs are at its highest when access to college is at its highest through 3rd party payers?
The reason premiums are so high is because everyone expects a 3rd party to pay to see the doctor every time they run to them with the sniffles.
If people would hold off and/or were expected to pay the doctors something reasonable out of pocket for their time you’d most likely see prices go down. Doctors could no longer justify charging $400 for a 10 minute visit to tell people to take their Nyquil and drink their OJ.
Insurance should be used in case of serious illness or injury.
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stevegravy
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Time for the red pill. Hippocratic oath do they really take the oath. I think from watching her graduation they seemed to take an oath not to rat out each other. There never was at any time by any of her lecturers a social commitment lecture. There was a lecture series on legal ins and out of what you absolutely have to know about patients in taking a history and the other was what you don’t want to ask patients. Why, because of lawsuits and legal risk. Lots of discussion on lawsuits and risk what you can and cannot do, what conditions are indicative of what and what test you have to run to cover your butt. Lots of scope of practice stuff.
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seekerz
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You are correct, I did have a vote if I was willing to pay the penalty: the costs, financial and otherwise, of uprooting my family (no other local openings available except with that employer), breaking a newly-signed contract and being unable to keep my old doc anyway, since he only practiced in that area.
That out-of-pocket illusion might work for communities like the Amish where people pool their resources to meet their needs. It does not work for people like me, who even living frugally, could not find an extra 50 bucks from one month to the next after paying for rent/food/childcare…I happen to live in the real world.
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austenbosten
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You’re absolutely right. Health Insurance is designed to pay for catastrophes, the same way all other insurance companies are designed for the same thing.
Lefitst ignore the fact that insurance is a hedge against a risk that may or may not happen. They are designed for unexpected costs, routine doctor visits are not unexpected, neither are eye exams and colds. When you are in an accident and you break your arm, that is when you need health insurance because you are hedging against a risk…even so you still don’t need Health insurance if you have created your own fund to plan for these disasters…however something like cancer would necessitate the need for insurance.
Take it this way, you don’t rely on your housing insurance to pay for your gutter or roof repairs…the same way you don’t rely on your auto insurance for tire blowouts or re-alignments…because you expect these things to happen…why would you rely on your health insurance to pay for your bi-yearly checkups?
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seekerz
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Want to know who lives in fairy tale land? Find me the industry where the consumer has no prior knowledge of what services will be needed when he/she steps into a business place, has only very limited knowledge of what some of these services cost, has no independent means of differentiating necessary and costly from unnecessary (unless you want to pay a second doctor) and less costly AND where the final cost is determined by who the payer is? Name one, just one, similar market…Only people who live in fairy tale land believe that the Health care market is something “special”
It’s not…it is no different than the insurance market or the housing market. Everyone needs shelter the same way they need health care, and insurance is there to aid in catastrophies.
Yeah it’s a serious discussion, when you see that the rate of increase in Health Care spending increased when the amount of people using 3rd party payers to pay for Health care increase and single-payer has done very little stemming the increases in health care spending.
Is it any wonder that tuition costs are at its highest when access to college is at its highest through 3rd party payers?
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stevegravy
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Man don’t you know health care is a right.You’re absolutely right. Health Insurance is designed to pay for catastrophes, the same way all other insurance companies are designed for the same thing.
Lefitst ignore the fact that insurance is a hedge against a risk that may or may not happen. They are designed for unexpected costs, routine doctor visits are not unexpected, neither are eye exams and colds. When you are in an accident and you break your arm, that is when you need health insurance because you are hedging against a risk…even so you still don’t need Health insurance if you have created your own fund to plan for these disasters…however something like cancer would necessitate the need for insurance.
Take it this way, you don’t rely on your housing insurance to pay for your gutter or roof repairs…the same way you don’t rely on your auto insurance for tire blowouts or re-alignments…because you expect these things to happen…why would you rely on your health insurance to pay for your bi-yearly checkups?
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scipio337
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The Hippocratic Oath is sworn to compassionately heal, not to work for free
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seekerz
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Because bi-yearly checkups can generate unanticipated costs, like expensive imaging or lab tests and insurance is not retroactive, i.e. you can’t pay for the doctor visit out of pocket and then buy insurance to cover the tests/interventions done or ordered during that visit.why would you rely on your health insurance to pay for your bi-yearly checkups?
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scipio337
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Or Medical Schools.
Don’t they have an obligation to society to train doctors for 4+ years for free?
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seekerz
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Who’s asking anyone to work for free?
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stevegravy
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Well no, you can always go down the street to the witch doctor, the shaman, or spirit mystic.
But western medical stuff is quite technical and expensive. So yea I guess we are hostage if you don’t let doctors work as a market but regulate their activities from here to kingdom come.
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Elizabeth502
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I agree. As I’ve said earlier, stand-alone hospital/catastrophic insurance (which used to be available apart from routine coverage, until the industry “got wise” about how economical it was for patients) is the way to go. Most physicians do not care for standard insurance – and the payouts and lack thereof & unpredictability of the whole mess, not to mention delays and the layering of the whole system.
They are also in favor of many more clinics (including those in-between clinics functioning as Urgent Care & open long but not 24 hours). Such clinics tend to be cash-basis, which is very efficient for the M.D.'s. Also, the prices (fees) are definitely lower than a 9-5 doctor in his private office. And they are not factories or characterized by substandard service. Frankly, on the several occasions I’ve used more than one such clinic, I have experienced Gold Standard physician service and extremely happy doctors & nurses. This is why they went into medicine: to serve & practice, not to become harried bureaucrats making compromised decisions.
These physicians are also aware of how many more primary care physicians are needed (even before the PPACA) to staff such clinics and to provide greater access for standard care.
So I think I’ll start a thread now
, over in Social Justice, asking, “If You Were President” (or Secretary of HHS), what would be your suggested solution/proposal to provide more morally just affordability and access to healthcare in the U.S.
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ComputerGeek25
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Again… You fail to realize how insurance is supposed to work. And that people should have some personal responsibility as well.
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seekerz
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Doctors can’t work as an unregulated market because health care is not like a can of soup on your supermarket shelf.
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seekerz
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Does personal responsibility make your lab tests/xrays cost less?
Things are ‘supposed to work’ the way we craft them. Human systems are meant to serve our needs - not the other way around.
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austenbosten
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Practically every market. Do you know full well the knowledge of what goes into your food? or how cars are made and run? Are you full well knowing if you need college or not? or if you need portfolio insurance if you are investing only in bonds. Do you have intricate knowledge of the Securities market? Do you know if you really need that hybrid car or would you be better off buying a used one or a diesel, or no car at all and just take public transportation…do you know what the final cost of investing in risky securities? You could be wiped out or worse owe money if you shorted a stock. Do you know what the final cost of operating a restaurant that gives several customers food poisoning thus causing them to sue you over and over…
Yes every market has risks, ignorance, known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.
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austenbosten
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The same way there are unanticipated costs when getting your car looked at…so what’s your point? Auto insurance needs to pay for your car repairs too?
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He_Man
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Expecting them to recoup less for a service than it costs them is holding them ransom, isn’t it?
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