Supreme Court Ruling on Health Care

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Actually Rome did have a breadline. It also had government-subsidized sports venues, subsidized education, finally they offered free bread, free oil, free pork, free wine, free education, free corn, free salt (which was highly expensive at the time), and of course did I mention free games?

Well it sounded great but it cost a fortune and it forced Rome to tax their rich into oblivion when that ran out of steam, they devalued their coin into obscurity causing massive inflation, when that no longer worked, they simply taxed people by their “stuff” and enslaved them…by that time the Romans were greeting the Barbarian hordes as Liberators.
Yes but the post referred to Jesus speaking to His people and in ancient Israel there were no “bread and circuses.” I really saw nothing in Jesus’ teachings that would indicate He suggested handing over your time, talent and treasure to the government to do with as it wished. Yes we are to obey our earthly rulers, to the extent they do not force us to violate God’s Word. But in no way is there some kind of centralized governmental control proposed by Christ.

Lisa
 
Lisa that’s the whole point. Cut reimbursment rates so low, doctors and hospitals are forced to turn away all Medicare/Medicaid patients…then the government can say “Look, Look! At these evil, greedy, heartless doctors and hospitals turning down grandpa because he has Medicare and Medicare unlike the greedy private insurance companies…don’t charge their patients outrageous prices…we need a nationalized health care service like the British have.”

Yep I see those Gutless Commie-Libs pushing it in say 10 years.
Oh absolutely I KNOW the REAL AGENDA and that is centralized control of our lives…every aspect from lightbulbs to mammograms. Sadly most people are woefully ignorant of what is happening in healthcare finance both for physicians and for hospitals. They hear things like “free birth control” and think isn’t this wonderful. I guess their mom never told them nothing is really for free…most of all our precious freedom.

Lisa
 
Social Security is the king of all pyramid racketeering schemes, backed by the brute force of the United States Federal Government and the IRS Enforcement SWAT teams.
Could be, but I’m not about to turn in the $2,000 per month I draw from SS above my state salary, on principle. You may come to be singing a different song when you’re eligible for SS. 😉 🙂
 
Oh absolutely I KNOW the REAL AGENDA and that is centralized control of our lives…every aspect from lightbulbs to mammograms. Sadly most people are woefully ignorant of what is happening in healthcare finance both for physicians and for hospitals. They hear things like “free birth control” and think isn’t this wonderful. I guess their mom never told them nothing is really for free…most of all our precious freedom.

Lisa
IMHO it is sad to think my father almost 60 years ago, surrendering a couple years of his life to Uncle Sam tacking all around Europe to defeat a totalitarian regime, only to have to watch it imposed on us now. Oh well, they won the battle we lost the war.
 
From your own link:
Physicians will be hit with a 21% cut in Medicare reimbursements as of June 1, unless lawmakers decide to patch over the issue – as they’ve done for years.
(emphasis mine)

That took me all of 2 seconds. And yes, I did ask you to show me how they “have been cut”.

Maybe later we can delve into why and when the planned cuts were imposed and how and if they have been implemented…Ciao! 😉
 
Yes but the post referred to Jesus speaking to His people and in ancient Israel there were no “bread and circuses.” I really saw nothing in Jesus’ teachings that would indicate He suggested handing over your time, talent and treasure to the government to do with as it wished. Yes we are to obey our earthly rulers, to the extent they do not force us to violate God’s Word. But in no way is there some kind of centralized governmental control proposed by Christ.

Lisa
No you are right Jesus never said for us to worship the State, he said to worship His Father.

And for all you RDDBies come on here throwin out that “Render unto Caesar…” verse…why don’t you dust off that old Bible you seldom pick up and read the whole section instead of just the verse. Jesus wasn’t answering freely he was being entrapped by the Pharisees, he gave that answer to get them off his back.

Christ was saying all belongs to God, nothing to the state.
 
IMHO it is sad to think my father almost 60 years ago, surrendering a couple years of his life to Uncle Sam tacking all around Europe to defeat a totalitarian regime, only to have to watch it imposed on us now. Oh well, they won the battle we lost the war.
I would almost be tempted to shed a tear with you, if I didn’t have from my childhood, firsthand knowledge of what an ACTUAL totalitarian regime is really like. 🤷
 
Jesus wasn’t answering freely he was being entrapped by the Pharisees, he gave that answer to get them off his back.
Whoa there. Are you accusing our Savior of misleading His listeners? Be very careful lest in holding on to your personal convictions you allow something that is more precious to drop…
 
Mickey you are woefully ignorant of medical finances and progress in medical care. Yes Medicare has a fee schedule and that was precisely what I referred to. Our specialty clinic has a procedure for which our charge is $5900. Now maybe you dismiss the talent it takes to open up a person, fix what’s wrong, close him back up again and then care for him for 90 days following the surgery. Oh you didn’t realize that when we do a surgery there is a “global period” where our care is covered as a part of the surgical payment. Now just in case you actually have respect for a doctor who went to school for 20+ years and think his lifesaving skills are worth paying for, how much of that $5900 do you think he gets from Medicare? That’s right it’s limited to $1785 quoted previously. IOW Medicare sets the fees that a doctor can make for doing various procedures. Realize Medicare sets this fee based on a formula that doesn’t reflect the increased cost of providing the care and realize further that it’s stagnant if not being reduced.

If you haven’t heard of hospitals or doctors going out of business because of low reimbursement rates, you haven’t been paying attention. Or an alternative is to turn down these patients. That is the grand fallacy of the Obamacare plan. Doctors don’t have to take those patients and there are fewer and fewer who will accept Medicare and Medicaid. So you can have that nice Medicare card or the Obamacare card but the doctor doesn’t have to see you. In case you’ve been asleep for the past century, slavery has been against the law for a while.

You are correct that technology has increased greatly. For example many patients’ heart disease is being treated with stents and angioplasty rather than surgery. OTOH I suspect not too many people think we ought to be doing heart surgery on an outpatient basis! I guess you must be a medical professional to have such knowledge of this right?

But better to be wrong than in doubt!

Lisa
They oulawed slavery?:extrahappy:

Lisa, I think the point is. Healthcare is becoming a resource. What your employer may hope for in the way of fees. May no longer be forthcoming.* If* the number of physicians that will treat medicaid patients gets too small. There will be a solution to the problem. Rest assured.

Not to put the medical profession on a level with entertainment. I’d like to draw a comparison with the music industry. The “Rock Star’s” are finding themselves in a similar predicament. They can no longer expect the huge profits, they used to recieve from their work. Because, technology has moved on. Sharing a song is just too easy to resist. They have gone so low as to sue a parent because their child has downloaded a song from the internet without paying. That should serve as their wake up call. Society has moved on.🤷 It’s going to be the same for healthcare. Even if the ACA is disassembled. Something along the same lines is going to follow. This is the wake up call. Rise and shine.😉

ATB
 
I would almost be tempted to shed a tear with you, if I didn’t have from my childhood, firsthand knowledge of what an ACTUAL totalitarian regime is really like. 🤷
Thank you, and there is nothing contradictory in the US government’s constitution and totalitarianism. We all know how to boil frogs.🤷
 
Jesus never explicitly said that abortion or gay marriage were immoral either.
He paid taxes. How do you get more explicit than that?

Where in the history of our Church or in its great traditions handed down, has any theologian ever declared taxation immoral? Could it be that the great Popes and saints and martyrs missed that nugget of wisdom?
 
They oulawed slavery?:extrahappy:
Not when the government thugs can come in and take half of my taxes and give them to somebody else. That money I earned and it is in someone else’s pocket with only 50% of it kept as handling fee for the thugs who took it.:mad:
 
Oh absolutely I KNOW the REAL AGENDA and that is centralized control of our lives…every aspect from lightbulbs to mammograms. Sadly most people are woefully ignorant of what is happening in healthcare finance both for physicians and for hospitals. They hear things like “free birth control” and think isn’t this wonderful. I guess their mom never told them nothing is really for free…most of all our precious freedom.

Lisa
Woefully ignorant how? Where are the Medicare cuts that have been made? It’s time to cut through the rhetoric and get real: who planned them, why, and when have they been implemented?
 
Whoa there. Are you accusing our Savior of misleading His listeners? Be very careful lest in holding on to your personal convictions you allow something that is more precious to drop…
Oh yeah throw down the gauntlet. Okay pal I’ll take you up on your challenge.
**
What the Leftist sees.**

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 22:21[/BIBLEDRB]

To the Leftist this very narrow take on the verse means that Jesus is basically saying it’s good to pay your taxes. Jesus supports Caesar’s taxes.

Here’s what really happened

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 22:15-22[/BIBLEDRB]

When you read the context, you realize Jesus was answering to the best of his ability without incarcerating himself by disobeying Caesar’s laws and the same by disobeying Jewish law and God. When Jesus says Render unto Caesars what is his and render unto God what is His…Does Caesar really own anything? The answer is No. All things belong to God the Father for He is the Creator of all things! Genesis 1

So yeah pal I ain’t saying anything about Jesus misleading His followers, I’m saying you need to pick up the Good Book once in awhile and read the whole story instead of plucking verses out to justify your political views. :mad:
 
He paid taxes. How do you get more explicit than that?

Where in the history of our Church or in its great traditions handed down, has any theologian ever declared taxation immoral? Could it be that the great Popes and saints and martyrs missed that nugget of wisdom?
Which tax did Jesus pay? There was no Roman income tax, and Christ owned no real property.

The question itself was a trap setup by the Pharisees. If Jesus said “Yes”, tribute was acceptable, he would have been denounced as in favor of the Roman occupation. If he had said “No”, he would have been reported to the Romans.

Christ was pointing out that all belongs to God, and Ceasar’s portion is nothing. Therefore, he is rendered nothing.
 
From your own link:

(emphasis mine)

That took me all of 2 seconds. And yes, I did ask you to show me how they “have been cut”.

Maybe later we can delve into why and when the planned cuts were imposed and how and if they have been implemented…Ciao! 😉
seekerz you are speaking of the Doc Fix" which indeed is always (and usually at the last minute) shelved for yet another year. However this is not the point nor the reason Obamacare is such a nightmare for physicians and their patients.

If you read previous posts, you will understand that Medicare and Medicaid rates are far below reimbursements by regular insurance, including HMOs PPOs etc. Obamacare’s effect will be to decrease the market for insurance (a number of large insurance companies have already left the medical market and more will follow) and put MORE people on a government plan. Obamacare calls for a huge expansion of Medicaid and because of the perverse incentive of the penalty…er TAX being less than the cost of healthcare insurance many employers will dump their employees on the new Medicaid based exchanges.

Now the doctors and hospitals that were squeaking along with a mix of regular and government based insurance will have MORE government insured patients thereby cutting the rate that they receive for caring for these patients.

Oh and all those extra mandates mean more care for less money.

You missed the point seekerz, this is a nightmare
Lisa
 
They oulawed slavery?:extrahappy:

Lisa, I think the point is. Healthcare is becoming a resource. What your employer may hope for in the way of fees. May no longer be forthcoming.* If* the number of physicians that will treat medicaid patients gets too small. There will be a solution to the problem. Rest assured.

Not to put the medical profession on a level with entertainment. I’d like to draw a comparison with the music industry. The “Rock Star’s” are finding themselves in a similar predicament. They can no longer expect the huge profits, they used to recieve from their work. Because, technology has moved on. Sharing a song is just too easy to resist. They have gone so low as to sue a parent because their child has downloaded a song from the internet without paying. That should serve as their wake up call. Society has moved on.🤷 It’s going to be the same for healthcare. Even if the ACA is disassembled. Something along the same lines is going to follow. This is the wake up call. Rise and shine.😉

ATB
Once again you ignore the result which is less access, less care, more misery for our fellow citizens. Just hope you stay healthy Mickey since your theories mean you won’t get care when you need it.

Oh and I assure you that my docs would love to get a rock star’s income for a year or two.

Lisa
 
Why are you confused? Did you not know we can be compelled to do anything our masters require if only they impose a mandate/penalty/ tax on us for failure to comply.
Now take the blue pill and enjoy your serfdom. It is quite painless and you will be quite taken care of. But please don’t feed the animals.
 
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