Supreme Court Ruling on Health Care

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Yerusalyim said:
The ruling is completely incoherent. On the one hand the government argued and the court declared the penalty to NOT be a tax in order to make it past the anti-injunction hurdle. The government then argued that it was within the powers of congress to regulate commerce…but if the court didn’t like that argument then it was a tax…and the court declared the penalty a tax. Either the Penalty is a tax or it isn’t a tax…it can’t be a tax for one aspect of the ruling and not for the other. Further, this is a massive expansion of the government’s power to tax. Never before in US history has somone been “taxed” for NOT engaging in an economic activity. We can now be taxed for ANYTHING we don’t do. Buy a gun or pay a tax, buy brocolli or pay a tax, buy artificial contraception or pay a tax. Roberts will go down as one of the most activist judges in US history.
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Some people think Roberts said it was a tax and upheld it because he was concerned about the speculation that the Court had become too partisan and political. But it hasn’t worked, because his decision looks more political than ever.

Roberts jokes about trip to ‘impregnable’ fortress
U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts joked that he’ll spend some time on an “impregnable island fortress” now that the court has ended a session that featured him casting the decisive vote to uphold President Barack Obama’s health care law.
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google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gGLyTpcP34I6VbarY8ak8fS4c-lA?docId=a4aa4095d41144f1b53820dd890c6efd

People may be laughing in response to him, but it is not funny, he has created a precedent, anything could be created in to a tax.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Never before in US history has somone been “taxed” for NOT engaging in an economic activity. We can now be taxed for ANYTHING we don’t do.
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I’m not too sure about that. Depends on how you word it, I guess. Payroll taxes are withdrawn from U.S. pay checks long before the Social Security and Medicare benefits are reaped. There is nothing voluntary about that.
 
Rasmussen: Obama gets polling bump from high court health ruling
President Obama is leading Mitt Romney thanks to a bump from last Thursday’s high court healthcare ruling, according to a survey released Saturday from conservative polling outlet Rasmussen.
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Rasmussen’s latest daily presidential tracking poll finds Obama with 46 percent support from likely voters to Romney’s 44.

The poll noted that this was the first time the president had held a lead on consecutive days in over a month. However, Obama’s edge is still within the poll’s four point margin of error.
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The poll’s findings mirror those of a Newsweek/Daily Beast survey released Friday which showed Obama leading Romney by 3 points, 47 percent to 44.
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In that poll, also conducted after the announcement of the high court’s ruling upholding Obama’s Affordable Care Act, voters were split on the decision. Fifty percent polled said they disapproved of the 5-4 verdict, with 45 percent backing it.
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Both sides have sought to portray the court ruling as a boost for their side, with Republicans claiming the decision will galvanize the conservative base ahead of November’s general election.
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The White House though is urging Democratic lawmakers to go on the offensive and use the victory to illustrate “how the President and Democrats in Congress are standing up for the middle class."
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The Rasmussen poll is conducted on a three-day rolling average.
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thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/polls/235765-rasmussen-obama-gets-polling-bump-from-high-court-health-ruling

Misleading headline. Big lead is categorised as a 2 or 3 points which is within the margin or error?
 
I would wager the rent money that this “lead” will disappear by next week.

My biggest laugh: Obama saying that it’s time to move on after this vote. Nice try:D
 
Our president essentially wants the US to become more like the EU model which is not working fro them so why would it work for this nation. This wll change our nation forever and not for the better. Being a small business in the healthcare field it will be disasterous.
 
It is a troubling ruling, now allowing government to tax an American for non compliance. And now also with Obamacare being found legal from Robert’s deciding vote, as I read this morning religious liberty is being challenged.

“ObamaCare’s Other Mandate Threatens Religious Liberty”

news.investors.com/article/616718/201206291848/obamacare-threatens-religious-liberty.htm

snippet:
…The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty says it will move forward with litigation challenging a requirement from the federal health care law that employers provide access to contraceptive services. “Never in history has there been a mandate forcing individuals to violate their deeply held religious beliefs or pay a severe fine ,” said Hannah Smith, lawyer for the group.
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The fund is engaged in religious liberty lawsuits on behalf of four institutions. There are now 23 lawsuits in 14 states and the District of Columbia involving more than 50 plaintiffs, according to the group, including lawsuits filed by 43 Catholic institutions in May.
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So if the Supreme Court has ruled that the government can impose a tax in the form of a penalty on those who refuse to buy health insurance, can it also impose such a “tax” on those who refuse to provide contraceptive services in violation of their religious beliefs?
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Beckett argues the contraception mandate violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which bars rules that impose a substantial burden on religious liberty.
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Surely the Founders did not intend the free exercise of religion to be limited to one hour, one day a week, in the confines of what the government says is a church. These cases will likely not be resolved before November, when the American people get to rethink the consequences of their political choices…
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Words continue to escape me in coming to grips with these events. But one thing becomes more and more clear — that we as Americans are so terribly attached to comfort and afraid of physical disease and death that we will trade any fundamental principle and justify any sin for a guarantee of continued comfort. It is paganism in practice. We are so afraid of that which can kill the body that we don’t even acknowledge our souls (ref. Mt 10:28).

I think many thought that ObamaCare would be a truly socialized product, and that if their low incomes exempted them from paying Federal taxes, they would be exempt from paying insurance premiums or “penalties” also. The “spin” from the Administration is going to get really interesting (entertaining) from this point on.

Heavenly Father, for our country, let your will be done.
 
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
Would you say that people are taxed for not having children? People get tax deductions for having them, we could rephrase it to say that people get an extra tax for not having them.

Indeed, I have always preferred to think about this as a tax deduction for people who chose to buy insurance.
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I have never looked at it that way. But I would agree with you. Interesting approach. Some taxpayers are paying higher taxes for NOT having children.

Same thing as the health care argument, I must say.

:cool:
 
Personanongrata said:
I have never looked at it that way. But I would agree with you. Interesting approach. Some taxpayers are paying higher taxes for NOT having children.

Same thing as the health care argument, I must say.

:cool:
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A similar argument for marriage or remaining single.

As Newt Gingrich put it any change to the tax code is really “social engineering.”
 
timotheos said:
But one thing becomes more and more clear — that we as Americans are so terribly attached to comfort and afraid of physical disease and death that we will trade any fundamental principle and justify any sin for a guarantee of continued comfort. It is paganism in practice. (ref. Mt 10:28).
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Couldn’t have said it better myself. 👍
 
ProVobis said:
Hmmmm. Not Heritage Foundation’s position in the 1990’s.
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Very interesting and new to me. Thanks for the links. I’ve often wondered about claims that much of the ACA ideas came from the GOP.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Some people think Roberts said it was a tax and upheld it because he was concerned about the speculation that the Court had become too partisan and political. But it hasn’t worked, because his decision looks more political than ever.

Roberts jokes about trip to ‘impregnable’ fortress

google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gGLyTpcP34I6VbarY8ak8fS4c-lA?docId=a4aa4095d41144f1b53820dd890c6efd

People may be laughing in response to him, but it is not funny, he has created a precedent, anything could be created in to a tax.
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Some on the Right have also claimed that Roberts’ epilepsy medication interfered with his ability to think clearly, but I don’t buy it. Does he even take such medication on a regular basis?
 
ringil said:
The Bristish people seem to like their health care system.

telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8396134/Record-satisfaction-with-NHS-even-among-Tory-voters.html
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wynnejj post show that is changing.

Survival rates for cancer, stroke, heart disease are better in America than they are in the Britain. Many people travel from Britain and other countries to get treatment in America where they have to pay for it.

Waiting times as of 2004
8 months for cataract surgery
11 months for a hip replacement
12 months for a knee replacement
5 months to repair a slipped disc
5 months for a hernia repair
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3749801.stm

America has a 5 survival rate of nearly 100% from prostate cancer:

cancer.org/Cancer/ProstateCancer/DetailedGuide/prostate-cancer-survival-rates

Britain 81%

info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/types/prostate/survival/prostate-cancer-survival-statistics

Canada 96%

cbc.ca/news/health/story/2010/09/15/cancer-survival-stats.html

If you were ill would you go to the UK to access treatment than the treatment in the US?
 
I think Justice Roberts is essentially correct in his interpretation of the Constitution. The Health Care Bill is basically a tax, in spite of what the Administration claims, and, as such, Congress has the power under the Constitution to tax citizens.
 
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