Supreme Court Ruling on Health Care

[ProVobis]

Or, if his operation allows for it, he’ll do the “sensible” thing and simply move his operation to China or somewhere and shut down his American operation entirely.

Or fire all his employees and hire them back as consultants or contractors, including secretaries (if they still have them). Lot of IT people have been doing that since the 90’s.

There are a lot of legal ways around the “new” law. The whole employer-based health system was destined to implode.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Those who justify John Roberts’ opinion seem to be doing the same as the majority opinion on the SC…

But did John Roberts elect Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and a supermajority in both houses of Congress? No he didn’t. The American electorate did, and a bear trap under the snow snapped over its collective ankle when Roberts didn’t rescue it from its own folly.

Would I have preferred that rescue? Sure. But I also have to wonder about the wisdom of a nation that expects one man to turn back the folly of the multitude from following a highbinder over a cliff.

I don’t like this. I hate it. But don’t we have to ask ourselves how in the world it ever came to this? For decades we have put up with stuff just like this and even allowed our children to be taught (yes, including in the Catholic schools) that somehow giving away somebody else’s earnings would be virtuous on our part.

And so, John Roberts doesn’t rescue us and we blame him. Folks, it’s not him who is the most to blame. It’s us.

Are all who hate Obamacare going to vote to get rid of it? No. Are all who hate it going to contribute money to his defeat and to the defeat of those (like Claire McCaskill in my state) who voted for it? No. Only some will.

And some of us who hate Obamacare will vote for ourselves or for Mickey Mouse like Obama dearly wants us to do.

 

[PTL]

Obamacare is on a extremely dangerous ground. By using the name of universal healthcare, it kills the unborn, kills the seniors, destroys medical quality, ruins doctors’ conscience by demanding them to lie, to deny treatment, to kill, Obamacare persecutes the Church, leads the country to communism. It is a disaster for the nation.

I am not saying health care is not important for people. But it could not be implemented with so many murders and persecutions. GOP has mentioned multiple times about reforming the current system but the proposal was never passed due to Dem’s blocking it.

We need to re-appeal and overturn Obamacare and come up with a new plan. That can only be done when so many deceived Catholics wake up and realize the horror of the Obamacare. Obamacare uses the method of killing many lives by lying to them (saying “nothing can be done for your case” to the seniors) and comes up the name of so-called “everyone has healthcare”. Actually, the unborn and the seniors are living sacrifice for this evil plan.

When poor people may have healthcare, seniors no longer have healthcare. What a shame! By excluding seniors, the system is worse than before. And don’t forget there are many seniors who are poor. Being poor and being senior does not help them in any way. Those poor seniors though have insurance, they have no care, and will even die sooner. As of today, the poor seniors can go to emergency to have their lives saved. For Obamacare, when a poor senior goes to emergency room, they will be given only comfort treatment and die right away.

Catholics, please wake up!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Or fire all his employees and hire them back as consultants or contractors, including secretaries (if they still have them). Lot of IT people have been doing that since the 90’s.

There are a lot of legal ways around the “new” law. The whole employer-based health system was destined to implode.

Maybe so. But there are limits to those who one can deem “contractors” and get away with it. They have pretty exacting criteria for that in the tax laws, and most employees could never be deemed “independent contractors”.

I am inclined to think Obamacare was designed to fail. I do not agree that the employer-based health insurance system was destined to implode. Certainly in my business it hasn’t. But under Obamacare it probably will because it will be cheaper for us to pay the “fine/tax” than to keep paying the whole thing, which we do now, with all the mandates Obama has and will impose on it.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

John Roberts was originally with the four dissenters to overturn the entire law. Then he changed, if he thought it was a tax along, why did he not originally vote with the liberal Justices?

I don’t know why he changed his mind. It could have something to do with how he problem solves.

We’ll have to try and remember. Faith, and grace don’t get us around trouble. They get us through it.

ATB

 

[Mickey_Finn]

I don’t think anyone expected that Obama’s promise to bring the parties together involved bringing them together against him.

Probably not.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Yes, but there are many here who believe that they belong to the government and that the government has a right to your property.

Just a percentage of your property.

Though this is the supreme court who decided Kelo v New London. So, in their mind. It’s your’s to pay taxes on. Until someone who’ll pay more taxes comes along, that is.

ATB

 

[PaulinVA]

Obamacare multiplies “free riders”. It doesn’t eliminate them. If one looks at the subsidies many are going to be getting, how can they not be called 'free riders"? So, who is going to pay those subsidies? Well, everybody, in one way or another. Taxpayers will. Those who actually have to pay fully for their insurance will. Everybody in the country will pay because it will increase the deficit, inflation, medical overutilization and, ultimately, interest rates.

Obamacare is “free rider heaven”.

Well, right now there are 47% of Americans who don’t pay taxes. These people (and others) will receive subsidies that reduce their premiums. There is no way the 53% will not pay more for them.

So, Medicaid users overuse Emergency Departments and don’t get care in the cheapest setting. Adding more people to the Medicaid roles will add more people that are inefficiently treated. That raises costs.

I believe that an industrialized society should provide for care for everyone (not single payer), but everyone needs to contribute to that care.

 

[ProVobis]

Maybe so. But there are limits to those who one can deem “contractors” and get away with it.

That is true but that brings us to the too-much regulation that Boehner keeps harping on but does nothing about.

 

[ProVobis]

Just a percentage of your property.

Though this is the supreme court who decided Kelo v New London. So, in their mind. It’s your’s to pay taxes on. Until someone who’ll pay more taxes comes along, that is.

ATB

It’s only “yours” when someone falls on it (or even outside of it) and wants to sue.

 

[wynnejj]

And so, John Roberts doesn’t rescue us and we blame him. Folks, it’s not him who is the most to blame. It’s us.

Few would disagree with the sentiment that John Roberts used in his final rationale. Many can even agree with John Roberts that it should have been codified as a “tax”, but it wasn’t. His Pontius Pilate disclaimer does not excuse the fact that he was charged to interpret the legislation and the Constitution the way it was written, not the way he would prefer it had been written to be less politically charged. Penalty and tax are two different mutually exclusive entities as asserted in the dissenting opinion. The individual mandate defined as a penalty - as defined in the Obamacare legislation - puts it under the commerce clause to which the majority opinion agreed was unconstitutional.

Is the Supreme Court still trying to figure out what the meaning of “is” is? That’s all we need is “incoherent but brilliant” legislative, executive, and judicial branches with popular voter consumerism unwilling to return items because they are misrepresented in the sales process.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

It’s only “yours” when someone falls on it (or even outside of it) and wants to sue.

:yup:

 

[Ridgerunner]

Few would disagree with the sentiment that John Roberts used in his final rationale. Many can even agree with John Roberts that it should have been codified as a “tax”, but it wasn’t. His Pontius Pilate disclaimer does not excuse the fact that he was charged to interpret the legislation and the Constitution the way it was written, not the way he would prefer it had been written to be less politically charged. Penalty and tax are two different mutually exclusive entities as asserted in the dissenting opinion. The individual mandate defined as a penalty - as defined in the Obamacare legislation - puts it under the commerce clause to which the majority opinion agreed was unconstitutional.

Is the Supreme Court still trying to figure out what the meaning of “is” is? That’s all we need is “incoherent but brilliant” legislative, executive, and judicial branches with popular voter consumerism unwilling to return items because they are misrepresented in the sales process.

Nevertheless, if I call a cat a “dog”, it’s still a cat.

 

[ProVobis]

Nevertheless, if I call a cat a “dog”, it’s still a cat.

I don’t know what the legal terms are and am not the greatest English linguist but it seems a tax is a penalty but a penalty isn’t necessarily a tax. Nevertheless your point is valid.

 

[Dawnia]

Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanac
It would be a hard government that should tax its people one-tenth part of their income.

 

[wynnejj]

Nevertheless, if I call a cat a “dog”, it’s still a cat.

Landlord wants to evict me because no dogs allowed. I go to court with my dog and say I should be able to have my dog, besides if you look at it one way, it really looks like a cat - besides what’s the diff?. The court is split about evicting a poor fellow whose only companion in life is a dog. Everybody says “It’s not a cat, it’s a dog”. Everybody agrees that the contract said no dogs allowed. Yet, one judge says “You know, it just a pet like any other pet… let’s call it a cat and rule for the dog owner”. The faction in the court who is not in favor of evicting poor fellows for their pets agrees with the “cat” redefinition.

 

[Jeanne_S]

And some of us who hate Obamacare will vote for ourselves or for Mickey Mouse like Obama dearly wants us to do.

Ensuring another four years…please don’t

 

[RACJ]

Anyone who thinks that 2700 pages of bureaucratic legalese written by people who have no connection to actually PROVIDING MEDICAL SERVICES is going to streamline the health system and make care more affordable has not thought it through. There will be layers upon layers of new bureaucracies, and 16,500 new IRS agents for enforcement. Each of the tens or hundreds of thousands of employees will be paid double what the dying private sector could have ever afforded. By the time that this monstrosity is fully implemented, ALL of us will need a pain pill to put us out of our misery, as the Compassionate Ruler (who won’t give his impoverished brother a nickel) had once prescribed. Rob

 

[CMatt25]

Reading and listening to conservative talking points here and elsewhere, I’ve become troubled that too many Americans are being led to believe they are going to be paying the healthcare law tax or penalty. I’ve seen the tax or penalty described as the largest tax increase on the poor and middle class. I say tax or penalty only because I think Gov Romney or his camp were calling it a penalty the other day because of the similar plan implemented in Massachusetts under his leadership. Not sure what they are saying today. But which terminology we use isn’t exactly a big deal to me. “Tax” is not a bad word to me so I’m personally fine calling it a “tax” if for the sake of this discussion that’s what Chief Justice Roberts would like us to call it.

Here’s the thing though. And I am fully aware trying to argue this on a conservative political forum such as this one at CAF is fruitless.

But here goes.

If you’re poor enough to be blessed to have coverage under Medicaid, you’ll have coverage.

If you’re middle class and fortunate to have coverage through an employer or you choose to keep what coverage you already have, or you qualify for Medicare, you’ll have coverage. The latter of course assuming the Ryan budget plan never gets implemented and Medicare as we know it is not ended.

If you choose to participate in the exchanges, you’ll have coverage. And better yet for those who do choose one of 4 tiers of coverage through an exchange, subsides to help pay for their health care coverage will be available for those making between 133 to 400 percent of the poverty level, an income of $92,000 for a family of four. Naturally of course the poorer and older a person is, the greater the subsidy. That only makes sense and is fair.

And if you unfortunately live in a state as I do whose Tea Party Republican governor since the court ruling is going around saying his state won’t implement the exchanges, fortunately the federal government will put one in place for residents of those states. I personally thank God and President Obama and those who supported and voted for the healthcare law for that. But mostly I thank God for leading those govermnent leaders to do something about health care in this country. If left to the states, not everyone can afford to move to one where a state exchange is offered.

The only person paying the tax ruled constitutional under the United States Constitution by the Supreme Court of the United States is the person who chooses to still after all of that, not to have health care coverage. It’s their choice.

Here’s a link that might help.

healthcare.gov/index.html

And here’s a source about the exchanges and subsidies.

cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57466008-503544/a-post-supreme-court-guide-to-the-health-care-law/

Peace everyone. God bless!

 

[RACJ]

There are already 34 people on this site who support a bill which is 2700 pages, which they haven’t read, and they have no idea who the author is. You are comfortable with 16,500 new enforcement agents, b/c well… Obama and Pelosi said it is good. Costs are already skyrocketing, and it will destroy what is left of our economic system after the left destroyed our housing markets. And care will inevitably worsen ,and there will be shortages of health personnel and critical care. Damn, I wish I had it in me to be a charlatan. People are so easy to deceive!