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seekerz
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What?!
Paying for each other’s care? Isn’t that a violation of some commandment?
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Paying for each other’s care? Isn’t that a violation of some commandment?
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Mickey_Finn
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Bologna yourself.
Yes it exist. But, people without healthcare insurance do not recieve it. We are not talking about a flu shot here. We are talking about actual medical care that is denied to the needy among us.16.3% of Americans are without healthcare insurance. 62.1% of personal bankruptcies list high medical bills as a cause.
This needs to be fixed.
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seekerz
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What is it with you guys and hospitals for health care? Is that where you go when you feel under the weather? Is that where you get any daily medication you might need? I feel like I’m in the twilight zone or something.
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seekerz
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How many of those they’s do you know personally or are you simply proceeding on assumptions? I was taking your reported experiences seriously as someone who personally knows real poor people, but when you stated that poverty is not a money problem you lost me. I do agree that budgeting is a problem among SOME of the poor I know, but your sweeping assertion just floors me. Maybe we just know different kinds of poor people or, judging by some other posters here, maybe we just watch different TV shows.
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Scott_Lafrance
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There will be no public assistance programs in 5 years, so what does it matter.
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seekerz
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Word games. This was not a matter open to interpretation. He said ‘let them die’ and I heard no challenges from the aspiring ‘leaders’ standing there. What’s to interpret?
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Elizabeth502
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At what point, seekerz, are residents of the freest and arguably the most generous country on earth required to take some reciprocal adult responsibility for all this follow-up that you keep insisting is “due” them, beyond the “LCD?” When you and I don’t follow-up with the dentist, oral problems ensue. That means cavities, gum problems, sometimes endodontistry, etc. The dentist should not be required to take us by the hand when we do not take it upon ourselves to follow his or her advice. We reap what we sow.
I recently was in a temporarily very bad jam financially, when I didn’t know if some expected money would materialize or not. Not knowing that, and knowing I had some expenses coming up that would break my heart if I couldn’t cover (or wind up causing me much more money later), I began a short-term Extreme Frugality project (about 3 weeks’ worth). I didn’t believe it would amount to much, and deliberately didn’t keep checking my bank account. To my shock I saved $600 just by doing without what was not absolutely essential. The other money came through anyway, but it was a wonderful lesson, even for someone like myself who normally does not spend carelessly at all, and does not indulge myself.
My point is not to force everybody into extremities; my point is that adults taking responsibility for themselves is more reachable than many here, and the government, give people credit for. I have seen people with part-time incomes and no gov’t assistance save carefully enough to spend a whole year abroad (a sabbatical not funded by any institution).
Maybe after one year of people taking initiative for medical follow-up, then their premiums – or their medicaid insurance – could be further discounted, and maintained there unless they started behaving irresponsibly again. But assuming at the outset that we must never treat lazy people like adults (whatever their income level), and poor people like adults, is not a prescription for “change.”
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TheRealJuliane
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You Madam, are going back on ignore. How snarky of you.
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Scott_Lafrance
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I LIVED poverty, so I know first hand that poverty is a thinking problem, not a money problem. I’ve been working and supporting my family since I was 14. Please don’t try to lecture me about what I know as first hand. My mother worked 2 sometimes 3 jobs at a time and I worked part time through high school to make sure we made ends meet. My mom never took a nickle of public assistance money because she knew that to make ends meet and you only make $800 a month, you have to find a way to spend less than that. I ate alot of spaghetti when I was a kid, because we couldn’t afford anything else. When other kids said they had macaroni and cheese, I would ask “You got cheese!?!?!?” We didn’t have TV when I was growing up and when things got really tight, neighbors had us over for dinner, or help chop firewood. My mom drove a piece of **** Chevy Nova and I rode my bike everywhere.
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Scott_Lafrance
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It was Obama who openly said that if your 102 year old, spirited, otherwise well-off grandma needs a pacemaker that she wouldn’t be authorized under his plan. She would be put on comfort meds and lead out to pasture.
“Let them die” is President Obama’s talking point, not the GOP.
youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo
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Dawnia
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I’m one of those uninsured people (please don’t grab me)
You are correct that the ER doesn’t provide followup care. It is after all a place to treat life threatening emergencies, not for checking colesterol levels.
Much of the chronic conditions anymore are self-inflicted through poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. For the average person, you don’t need to see a doc all that much if you take care of yourself. So the basic care you get in an ER is little more than most people ever need.
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seekerz
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(emphasis mine)
Great point. I know some people who likewise game the system so I try to refrain from sweeping generalisations based on what happens in my neck of the woods. In one middle class family I know, a child from a previous relationship is a recipient of public assistance (mother still unmarried, though with new partner) and she is the only one in the household who is actually poor. The family has all amenities and regularly vacations at various spots, but this child does not get anything for personal use unless it is donated to the family. Are they poor? Is she?
My position has always been that fraud should be detected and rooted out, but based simply on the mailings I receive from charitable organizations, there are genuinely poor people who are actually having trouble putting food on the table or meeting other basic needs such as housing. The government and the charities cannot both be completely fooled by homogeneous masses of not-really poor people.
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seekerz
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I think you need to decide on a stance: are chronically ill people largely to blame for their illnesses OR is this millenium’s basic medical care to be measured by sub-third world standards?I’m one of those uninsured people (please don’t grab me)
You are correct that the ER doesn’t provide followup care. It is after all a place to treat life threatening emergencies, not for checking colesterol levels.
Much of the chronic conditions anymore are self-inflicted through poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. For the average person, you don’t need to see a doc all that much if you take care of yourself. So the basic care you get in an ER is little more than most people ever need.
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austenbosten
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I don’t know what’s more entertaining, watching my fellow colleagues in Realville deal with seekerz…or this :banghead:
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seekerz
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I searched for and found the video - not sure if it’s the same as yours. He danced around the question because that is not the kind of decision which someone else can make for a person - it has to be individualized based on the best available information.
I find it ironic that you can make his words = ‘let them die’ but you can make an actual ‘let them die’ = not the GOP’s talking point. Really neat.
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seekerz
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Realville? More like Planet Not-Earth…
I don’t know what’s more entertaining, watching my fellow colleagues in Realville deal with seekerz…or this :banghead:
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austenbosten
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Yeah keep suckin down those shots of Obama-Lefitst-Democrat Kool-Aide. No matter what Reality will come a knockin
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Dawnia
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Bolonga again & I’ll raise you a sliceBologna yourself.
16.3% of Americans are without healthcare insurance. 62.1% of personal bankruptcies list high medical bills as a cause.
This needs to be fixed.
I am without insurance and have no problems seeing a doc if I should need to. (and no I’m not a billionaire) I’ve paid out of pocket for my medical care for the last 10 years or so. I’ve also met a lot of people while I was waiting to see the doc who also didn’t have insurance. Never once were any of us turned away.Your number is off a bit. The bkys are not CAUSED by high medical bills. It is the number of bankruptcies where medical issues contributed to the bankruptcy, whether that was getting fired because someone missed one too many days because of illness, someone who can no longer work and in a few cases because of major medical bills (many of which were from deductibles & uncovered costs) FactCheck.org breaks down the specifics.
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Zosimus41
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Ok it took the Baptist
Submitted by Baptist Press on Jan 20, 2012
WASHINGTON – The Obama administration has rejected appeals to overturn guidelines requiring health insurance plans to cover contraceptives that can cause abortions**.As Catholics are we now ok with this?**
1.New taxes, penalties, and fees will discourage businesses from growing, lowering economic growth by $706 billion and costing 800,000 jobs.
2.The Federal government will force 18 million of the uninsured to go on Medicaid. Despite this, millions will still remain uninsured.
3.Each year, $125 million will go towards subsidizing school-based health centers and programs to reduce teen pregnancy, with no requirement to reduce abortions. Parents won’t know what services their children will receive.
4.Half of those on Medicare Advantage will lose this coverage thanks to rate increases.
5.Health care costs will rise thanks to $47 billion in new taxes on drug companies and medical device makers.
6.Nearly two-thirds of doctors are considering abandoning any kind of government-sponsored health care insurance, stating that regulations are too high and reimbursement too low.
7.By forcing States to accept federally-mandated health insurance, the Act violates States’ rights.
8.Small businesses, the drivers of new job growth, will be especially penalized by $52 billion in new taxes and new IRS reporting requirements.
9.Despite $500 billion in new taxes, Obamacare will increase the deficit by $500 billion over the next 10 years. (Source: Heritage Foundation, Impact of Obamacare)
We still owe China 2 1/2 trillion dollars…Who is going to pay that?
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seekerz
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The most generous country that helps other countries raise the baseline health of their populations so that they too can develop. How can such a generous country ignore for itself the standards which it sets for its less fortunate neighbors?
Being generous does not preclude spending wisely, and leaving health care to be administered (and paid for accordingly) in any part of a hospital, including the ER, is simply senseless.
Personal responsibility is great, but I notice you failed to address the real disproportion I demonstrated to you yesterday with real world numbers: an uninsured person is required to pay more than your average insurance company does - for the same service. The numbers are so outrageous it’s like asking people to skip out on their bill.
That depends. Extreme Frugality is everyday life for me - I turn up my nose at your average grocery store coupon dispensed at cash registers because for the most part, discounted or not, I see those products as beyond my budget. Yet that frugality could not begin to allow me to help a dear one pay the $200,000+ bill that her uninsured care incurred - not without bankrupting me. And yes, she was a responsible, hardworking, healthy living person, hardly ever sick a day until she got really, really sick.
A person of limited means can more realistically take responsibility for his/her care if the benefit of insurance discounts can be applied to health care bills. Trust me - the difference can be like night and day. For someone whose yearly earnings might be $40-$50,000 a year, that can mean the difference between staying afloat and insolvency.
I don’t understand what you’re getting at - are you discussing the insured who fail to get regular care? I suppose so, because only they have premiums…
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