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Rau
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It is indeed no impediment to marriage that one or both of the parties are sterile. No one has suggested this AFAIK. This fact, however, has nothing to do with the matter in discussion.
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Vatican2Rocks
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sorry i didn’t read the whole thread. i just responded to jgraves and any other persons who made a comment about kids. it is a duh situation that homosexuals can’t have kids. it is the main reason the catholic church can’t win the argument on same sex marriage by continuously harping they can’t have kids. no duh…there is no reason to make an issue of it. by contining to push the matter people are in essence daring them to adopt or get involved with in vitro ferilization and surrogate mothering.
by pointing out the obvious: that homosexuals can’t get pregnant and have kids, one begins to get the idea someone is suggesting or insinuating that homosexuals should marry heterosexuals instead just so they can have kids…yet that would be an invalid marriage because someone is genuinely not sexually attracted to the other person. that is a coercive situation ultimately. i am sure it would be an unsatisfactory situation for both parties and an unfair burden…totally UN-SACRAMENTAL.
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Vatican2Rocks
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it is wrong to assume that homosexuals are not christian or jewish. there are most certainly homosexual christians and jews and muslims. therefore no lawyer will take a case of this type because it is a false dichotomy.
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Vatican2Rocks
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while i am anti war and do not feel comfortable with guns, americans are entitled to the right to bear arms because of the british royals abusing their power and authority during the colonial times trying to force us to buy their products. “no taxation without representation” and other financial, moral, and religious abuses.
right now we have christians and jews wanting to overrule the constitution in favor of jewish law. this is america, not israel, not britain. we have the right to choose our laws and i am most definitely against any religion becoming a state religion in america. how would you feel if california or new york were declared a jewish state? totally unacceptable i am sure…and now you see the real covert political agenda…i for one will never recognize israel or jews as an exclusive state in any government in the world. in america we are successful and peaceful because we have a separation of church and state. we have a separation of synagogue and state. we acknowledge religious freedom and we have right to be free of the jews. zionists are behind this claptrap talk about electing god in america and doing away with and destroying our constitution. americans cannot allow our bill of rights and constitution to be destoyed because of the zionist agenda in israel. not okay.
as an american catholic i do not recognize brittain as the owner of america. i do not recognize the church of england as the state religion of america and i am equally against brittain ruling america overtly or covertly.
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Rau
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You should read more of the thread to understand the context. You seem to be tilting at windmills, as no one is making the argument to which you object.
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Rau
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Is that a risk you feel continues to this day? A need for men and women to protect themselves individually from those British royals?
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Rau
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There is no dichotomy claimed at all. We have on CAF persons arguing in favour of SSM and related “rights” who are Catholic, Lutheran, Jewish, Anglican and perhaps others. This does not mean that those positions can’t lead to the infringement of the religious liberties of others.
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Vatican2Rocks
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well it is interesting that a brit headed up the talk against the right to bear arms. i forget his name, he was on cnn and got himself into a lot of hot water. he is someone who was employed by rupert murdoch and may even himself have hacked into people’s cellphones and violated people’s right to privacy in the rush to humiliate and embarrass his targets.Is that a risk you feel continues to this day? A need for men and women to protect themselves individually from those British royals?
why is it that america insists that other countries are not allowed to have weapons but america and israel are? people have a right to self defense and i am against attempts to dismantle our basic rights which the founding fathers established.
are you from the uk by chance?
i am responding to other people’s arguments that they think matter to this original topic. i have a right to rebut them and tell them why they are wrong even if it is inconvenient to a political agenda i do not agree with.
i am against the military industrial complex pushing not just weapons and fear but also war and war games etc. i did point out that i am anti war and i agree that there are too many gun incidents in america but i am not willing to abolish americans right to bear arms because of the abuses of power just on a surveillance standpoint where americans privacy rights have been abused. and this is not just in america it is happeneing all over the world. even in the uk. which is why rupert murdoch went down. and not enough either.
our police and government have abused our privacy rights in the name of fear. they are at the head of hacking into people’s computers and it is only natural that corporations and our own us government would eventually suffer from this. that was the risk they took when they decided to break the law and surveil all americans. illegally i might add. they’d do it again because they are immature and irresponsible. and do not respect our constitution and bill of rights. the ones pushing this illegal surveillance and harassment is jews. we send too many tax dollars and weapons to a teeny tiny country in the middle east called israel.
that is why the right to bear arms must remain. our government is abusing our civil rights and they must remain in check.
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Rau
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What do you mean by that statement?
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Vatican2Rocks
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the jews are trying to subject us to their jewish law and as christians we are not subject to them because jesus gave us the holy spirit. please refer to the letter to the galatians. they do not consider us their equals they think they are above us. and we let them be above us because we do not know enough of the new testament and the holy spirit and keep referring back to the old testament. i made posts about it today if you do a search on my history.
protestants use the old testament and the council of jerusalem as their authority, that is why they are missing 7 books in their bible. catholics use a different authority for their books of the bible. because the protestants constantly refer to the jewish religion to bolster their beliefs and protest against the authority of the catholic church and st peter, they are subjecting themselves to jewish law in the old testament rather than the new testament and the holy spirit. if we are subject to jewish law then we are slaves. we are not free and do not have religious freedom. we lose our rights and our freedoms.
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Rau
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But what does it mean to be “free of the Jews”? I am not asking why you say it - I am asking what does it mean?
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Vatican2Rocks
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to be free to object to their dominance and abuses in our politics and media for example. and not be called an anti semite for objecting to their actions in the middle east or control of the talking points in newspapers the internet television movies government etc. and to be free of being subject to their laws which they are trying to get us to accept. they are trying to dismantle our constitution so that they can justify their acts of war in gaza and palestine. we send them a lot of money and weapons and have a very close relationship with them yet they do not want to accept civil rights and equal rights in thier own country. which is why they have segragated the palestinians. they don’t want to acknowledge the religious freedom of muslims and christians in palestine and israel. they want it all to be exclusively jewish. they want their state religion to be exclusively jewish. in america we believe in the separation of the church and state. some people in america, get the false idea that america’s rule of law should be jewish like it is in the bible but if we did that we would lose our rights and our freedoms because then jewish law would be the rule of law. this is not ok as an american let alone a catholic.
the jews do not respect equality.
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Vatican2Rocks
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i am not sure if i answered your question.
it is to be free of their religious commandments. their rules their rule of law to not go back in time to animal sacrifices for example to not be subject to old testament law…st paul discouraged christians in many of his letters not to go back to the old law but to follow the new law and the holy spirit. to refuse to get circumcised for example as an outward sign of righteousness or holiness. or as a sign of a close personal relationship with god. to not be subject to the flesh. to not be under the law to live by the spirit instead which is the inheritance god promised.but to the jews we are not part of their family so we don’t get an inheritance according to them. the land of israel and palestine is not just for the jews it is also for the christians and muslims and must be shared. the jews would love nothing better than to kick out the christians and muslims and have it all to themselves but this wouldn’t be right in god’s eyes because he is jesus christ afterall. armageddon already happened a long long time ago during the time of nero. trying to force god to come by having a major war isn’t going to make it happen. the protestants are wrong about their interpretation of the book of revelations and their line of thinking in combination with the zionists is toxic and dangerous and ultimately unbiblical.
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Rau
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I think you have gone above and beyond…
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Tomdstone
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Not true for all Jews. BTW, how do you explain the fact that the number of Jews receiving Nobel Prizes is far above what would be expected given their percentage of the world population. Do you think that Jews are smarter than everyone else?
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Vatican2Rocks
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i attribute that to nepotism and favoritism amongst themselves. is nobel a jew? i am not sure…
who is on the board? who decides who is worthy of the nobel prize? what country is the board located in? do they give the prizes based on a social agenda they want to promote? possibly…
are they like the royal family trying to keep the money in the family and not allowing outsiders in?..most likely yes.
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KSU
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Vatican2Rocks!, you are pro-SSM and apparently pro-VC II. Is it your opinion that VC II prepared the way for SSM?
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Vatican2Rocks
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not exactly that but did you know that some members of the vatican2 talks were homosexual. i wasn’t originally same sex marriage, like obama, my opnion evolved as i grew older and had an improved understanding of what true sacramental marriage entails and how to know who you should marry. i was anti same sex marriage and signed the doma back in the 90’s. then one day i read the 1993 catechism passage which teaches the faithful to recognize that people with same sex attraction should be treated with respect and charity…i wasn’t taught or given good guidance on marriage when i was younger and had a lot of wrong ideas about how to know who you should marry etc. i think human progress and canon law and the catechism teaching on sacramental marriage and the psychology of sex and medical research all brought it to this point. and the homosexuals have always been with us but it was never talked about. they have always been with us and have influenced our culture all along. especially in the arts and literature and the entertainment field. they have always been there in the background. so i think its a snowball effect is what happened. all of these pieces coming together. technological advancement really pushed it forward too.
also one day i noticed in my bible which i’ve had since the 80’s the footnotes state that there are 3 differing opinions amongst the prophets as to what happened in sodom and gomorrah. the bible i have is an nab.
and then i heard that children had been born with both male and female organs throughout history. you know when you look at the diversity of nature in non human life forms you realize the originality and uniqueness of all creation and that sometimes these things happen. i also made a cursillo and learned god does not make mistakes. he made them for a reason. jesus did not condemn them either.
i am sure genetic research had a lot to do with it too.
and luckily i had a priest that worked at vatican 2 and was a marriage tribunal judge who set me straight about how to know who you should marry. i am thankful for him because i might have ended up in a bad marriage. he is the best priest and smartest priest i ever met.
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Rau
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The current edition of the Catechism teaches the same thing. But, do I understand that you took **this part **of the catechism to heart, but rejected the remainder of the section on homosexuality?
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