Supreme court unlikely to delay Obama healthcare ruling

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They want to tax the rich and create jobs. 😃
Yaaaaaaa, because that works. Take the money away from the evil conservative people, (because rich liberals should keep their money, they know what to do with it) and give it to the government for 'shovel ready" jobs.
 
:confused: Did I criticize Buckley’s show with an ad hominem attack on him? …
No but you called orderinthecourt.org ā€œrightwingā€, an ad hominem. I drew a comparison between Buckley and orderinthecourt.org to show they both addressed both sides of an issue, but were considered ā€œconservativeā€ [therefore, rightwing]. If you don’t think your characterization is an ad hominem, I think you should take a more liberal view of ā€œad hominemā€.
 
Here is a pretty good arguement on making sure you understand both sides of an arguement and not just discount one side because you and those you know don’t think that way:

Greg Sargent is one of many commentators wondering ā€œHow did legal observers and Obamacare backers get it so wrong?ā€ I think he’s asking the wrong question. A better question to ask is: why did so many expect legal elites to have any particular insight into the current court? After all, many of the legal experts who were so dismissive of the arguments against the mandate were equally dismissive of the federalism arguments that prevailed in cases like United States v. Lopez, New York v. United States, and City of Boerne v. Flores. Many of the legal academics who ridiculed Randy Barnett’s work on the mandate, and who were relied upon by legal journalists and commentators, thought their schools were advancing viable legal claims in *Rumsfeld v. FAIR. *Oops. Premier appellate litigators may have a good sense of how the Court is likely to assess complex constitutional law claims, but elite legal academics, not so much.

What explains this state of affairs? I believe there are several factors at work, but one in particular is the increasing separation of the legal academy from the practice of law — a separation that is greatest in fields, such as constitutional law, that touch on broad questions of public policy. At many schools, academics are more interested in developing a comprehensive theory of justice than in divining the nuances buried in the Court’s cases. Junior academics are routinely discouraged from doctrinal scholarship and pushed to develop broad overarching and original theories for what the law should be. Constitutional scholarship in particular is increasingly focused on theory and less on the law. In some corners, it’s more important to reconcile one’s claims with the writings of John Rawls than the opinions of John Roberts.

This divide explains why so many legal academics were dismissive of some of the concerns raised in this week’s oral arguments, such as the need for a limiting principle. The Solicitor General’s office has taken this concern seriously from day one, as have a few liberal legal academics (e.g. Neil Seigel, Michael Dorf whereas others, such as Andrew Koppelman, have been sneeringly dismissive of this argument from the get-go. Even if Koppelman were right as a matter of first principles, he’s clearly wrong as a matter of current doctrine as understood by the current Supreme Court, though you wouldn’t know it from what he’s written.

Another factor that contributes to this problem is the relative lack of ideological diversity within legal academia. The current Supreme Court has a right-leaning majority, but legal academia leans decidedly to the left. On many faculties their are few, if any, professors with any particular appreciation or understanding (let alone sympathy) for the jurisprudential views of a majority of the current justices. This means that when ideas are floated in the faculty lounge, they may get a far more sympathetic hearing than they would ever receive in court. So, for instance, it’s easy for Jack Balkin to dismiss an argument premised on *Bailey v. Drexel *

Furniture because it’s a *Lochner-*era decision, even though Bailey remains good law. A practicing lawyer would have been less likely to make this mistake. Indeed, the SG actually cited Bailey approvingly this week in his argument before the Court.

volokh.com/2012/03/30/why-did-legal-elites-underestimate-the-case-against-the-mandate/
 
You mean the same Joe Biden that didn’t want to criticize China’s one child policy? The same Joe Biden who thought there was a tangible difference between HHS’s original contraception mandate and the ā€œamendedā€ one? That Joe Biden? The one that, at the signing ceremony of this very law, said to the President (and heard on microphone) ā€œthis is a big ****** deal.ā€ Ya, forgive me if I ignore the vice-clown.
 
You mean the same Joe Biden that didn’t want to criticize China’s one child policy? The same Joe Biden who thought there was a tangible difference between HHS’s original contraception mandate and the ā€œamendedā€ one? That Joe Biden? The one that, at the signing ceremony of this very law, said to the President (and heard on microphone) ā€œthis is a big ****** deal.ā€ Ya, forgive me if I ignore the vice-clown.
The fact that Joe said it will stand gives me more reason to believe Obamacare will be overturned.
 
The fact that Joe said it will stand gives me more reason to believe Obamacare will be overturned.
Joe doesn’t know any more what the Justices will do than you or I.

In fact there is at least one academic that thinks ā€œI really don’t think Justice Kennedy has any idea at the moment how he’s going to voteā€

Personally, I think they have already voted and have divied up the duties as to who will be writing which opinion. Most of the work happens before oral arguements are made and the justices normally walk in with their minds made up.
 
It has been done before.
That actually came up in the arguments before the court. The difference is that forcing the people to show up for a draft or join a militia is telling the people they have a duty to act. In Obamacare, you are forcing people to purchase something that they do not already have via force through the commerce clause of the U.S. Constitution.

The sticking point is that the latter, Obamacare, relied on the commerce clause where the Militia Act did not. Had Congress not relied on the commerce clause they might have had grounds.

It was Justice Kennedy who saw the difference between the government telling people they have a duty to act and the government telling people how to spend their money. The latter changes the fundamental relationship between government and the people and expands the commerce clause in a way not intended.
 
No but you called orderinthecourt.org ā€œrightwingā€, an ad hominem. I drew a comparison between Buckley and orderinthecourt.org to show they both addressed both sides of an issue, but were considered ā€œconservativeā€ [therefore, rightwing]. If you don’t think your characterization is an ad hominem, I think you should take a more liberal view of ā€œad hominemā€.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Buckley was a real person, and an attack on him would have been an ad hominem. Criticism of a website is not an ad hominem by definition. I, for one, don’t compare people with organizations as a matter of scale. 🤷
 
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Buckley was a real person, and an attack on him would have been an ad hominem. Criticism of a website is not an ad hominem by definition. I, for one, don’t compare people with organizations as a matter of scale. 🤷
It’s ad hominem. Remember blogs are people too šŸ™‚ Just like newspapers or news casts.
 
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Buckley was a real person, and an attack on him would have been an ad hominem. Criticism of a website is not an ad hominem by definition. I, for one, don’t compare people with organizations as a matter of scale. 🤷
I think it applies because those who use it to counter arguments are not addressing the arguments of those organizations but just attacking their character. :yup: That’s why I said to take a more liberal view of ā€œad hominemā€.
 
I think it applies because those who use it to counter arguments are not addressing the arguments of those organizations but just attacking their character. :yup: That’s why I said to take a more liberal view of ā€œad hominemā€.
Sometimes you have to consider the source.

Think Paul Krugman
 
I think it applies because those who use it to counter arguments are not addressing the arguments of those organizations but just attacking their character. :yup: That’s why I said to take a more liberal view of ā€œad hominemā€.
How about the KKK? Want to read through their arguments or just dismiss them because they are the KKK? How about the ACLU, that perennial favorite of conservatives? Or best of all, Planned Parenthood, the CAF darling?

Sorry, but I have better uses of my time than to be neutral to everyone.
 
Sometimes you have to consider the source.

Think Paul Krugman
Indeed. That might mean relying on ā€œcode words,ā€ but I think that a person can get a good idea of where an argument is coming from by just seeing who is making the argument.
 
It’s ad hominem. Remember blogs are people too šŸ™‚ Just like newspapers or news casts.
Saying that MSNBC or Fox News or NPR are, depending on your POV, liars would not be an ad hominem in my opinion. Those by their nature are open to criticism. People are different. Personal attacks are just that - personal, not so impersonal as those against a news organization. IMO, anyway.
 
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