Surah 5:47

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Augustine3

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Muslims believe the Gospel has been corrupt before the time of Mohammed but if they read the verse below:

“And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.” – Surah 5:47

How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel was corrupt? I challenge any Muslim to justify this Surah…
 
I’m sure the answer would be something along the lines: this surah is in reference to the real injeel (Gospel), not what christians have in their hands today.

The Koran is a lengthy, complex, confusing and often contradictory book. Surahs and hadiths can be summoned to support just about any POV.* If there’s any genius or beauty to it, it would be that.
  • Some people say essentially the same thing about the Bible.
 
Then I would answer the Gospel back in Mohammed’s day is the same as today’s Gospel proven by historical texts, early church father writings, liturgies all dating before the birth of Mohammed.

God bless,
 
As I have pointed out before on this forum, the claim that the New Testament texts are corrupted, while widespread in certain circles today, has no basis in the Qur’an, in the early Islamic community nor in the classical thinkers of Islamic thought. The texts as we have them seem, for the greatest part, to be the texts as written by their authors.

On the other hand, while those texts offer the best historical access to the person and teachings of Jesus, none of those texts are a written text by Jesus and discerning, historically, what might be the ‘injeel’ of Jesus, through the accounts of the New Testament writers, is a challenge even for the modern, Christian, Biblical scholar.

A long thread on the “corruption” of the Bible, which LtTony also participated in, can be found here…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=426361
 
My goodness you are the first Muslim I have come across that admits the bible has not been corrupt! However Islamic sources with greater credibility such as Ibn 'Abbas claim it has been corrupt.

God bless,
 
I may be the first you have met, but the idea is absent in the classics of Islamic scholarship (e.g., Ghazali, Arabi, etc.) and is certainly nothing like Islamic dogma. Of course none of that changes that the idea is widespread, at the moment, but the idea of an original written text that was subsequently corrupted seems unsupportable.

I believe that ibn 'Abbas accuses them of misinterpretation, not of actually changing the texts that they have. He also reports Jews and Christians attacking and denying each other’s prophets.
 
Here’s a comment by Ibn Abbas on Surah 2:79

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah’s Apostle(Prophet Muhammad) is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, ‘It is from Allah,’ to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!”(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur’an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)

Here it clearly shows a claim the scripture had been distorted. Please bear in mind Ibn Abbas lived during the 7th century which was the same century the Quran had been revealed which places him as an early source contradicting your claim there is no early source stating the scripture is corrupt…

God bless,
 
Here is a piece of advice for Christians who might have a bone to pick with Muslims with regard to our differing beliefs i.e. let us first concentrate on the things that we do have in common and do not disagree with, specifically the Ten Commandments.

Muslims believe that Christians (and also Jews) are headed for the Hell-fire because they are flagrantly ignoring and violating much of the Ten Commandments which was handed down to them by God Almighty Himself.

Surah 5:47 of the Qur’an is really a manifestation of the Lord’s displeasure with Christians who have violated the Ten Commandments and which has alas, led them to go far astray in their faith.

Indeed, if you examine every instance where the Qur’an and the Sunnah admonishes the People of the Book, then it is just so obvious that it has been brought about by their gross and willful disregard of the various aspects of the Ten Commandments.

And so, instead of nitpicking about various verses in the Qur’an, let us examine whether or not Christians have willfully disregarded and violated vital aspects of the Ten Commandments since they are indeed found in the Qur’an (with the exception of the Sabbath) and is therefore common ground for discussion between Christians and Muslims.
 
Hypatia said:
I may be the first you have met, but the idea is absent in the classics of Islamic scholarship (e.g., Ghazali, Arabi, etc.) and is certainly nothing like Islamic dogma. Of course none of that changes that the idea is widespread, at the moment, but the idea of an original written text that was subsequently corrupted seems unsupportable.

I believe that ibn 'Abbas accuses them of misinterpretation, not of actually changing the texts that they have. He also reports Jews and Christians attacking and denying each other’s prophets.
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I am one Catholic, who believes that the Creator of all has a special love for sincere, humble Muslims of the Koran, and also for sincere, humble Jews of the Tanach, for they are the children of Abraham and of promise. How this all works out in the judgment, is not mine to know.
 
mercytruth said:
I am one Catholic, who believes that the Creator of all has a special love for sincere, humble Muslims of the Koran
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If you read the Quran and hadith, you will find Muhammed would crucify and cut the hands and feet of those whop disagreed with him.

He ordered the beheading of hundreds of people, had people’s hands and feet cut off, and other acts of cruel and violent torture.

People need to be awake to what the reality is of what Islam represents.
 
I have read the Koran and the OT. There are some very radical things spoken in all of these texts.

More importantly, I know some humble, sincere Muslims who would put to shame a lot of “Christians”.

Sura 46:9-10 is associated with Deut. 18:18-19 which is quoted by Muslims whom they think refers to Mohammed:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19
English Standard Version (ESV)

18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

This is the scripture which I would want to discuss with Muslims, for it is the axis on which both the Christian and the Muslim faiths revolve.
 
hamba2han said:
Indeed, if you examine every instance where the Qur’an and the Sunnah admonishes the People of the Book, then it is just so obvious that it has been brought about by their gross and willful disregard of the various aspects of the Ten Commandments.

And so, instead of nitpicking about various verses in the Qur’an, let us examine whether or not Christians have willfully disregarded and violated vital aspects of the Ten Commandments since they are indeed found in the Qur’an (with the exception of the Sabbath) and is therefore common ground for discussion between Christians and Muslims.
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JL: I might be good also to examine whether or not moslems have willfully and grossly disregarded and violated vital aspects of the Ten Commandments
 
hamba2han said:
Here is a piece of advice for Christians who might have a bone to pick with Muslims with regard to our differing beliefs i.e. let us first concentrate on the things that we do have in common and do not disagree with, specifically the Ten Commandments.

Muslims believe that Christians (and also Jews) are headed for the Hell-fire because they are flagrantly ignoring and violating much of the Ten Commandments which was handed down to them by God Almighty Himself.

Surah 5:47 of the Qur’an is really a manifestation of the Lord’s displeasure with Christians who have violated the Ten Commandments and which has alas, led them to go far astray in their faith.

Indeed, if you examine every instance where the Qur’an and the Sunnah admonishes the People of the Book, then it is just so obvious that it has been brought about by their gross and willful disregard of the various aspects of the Ten Commandments.

And so, instead of nitpicking about various verses in the Qur’an, let us examine whether or not Christians have willfully disregarded and violated vital aspects of the Ten Commandments since they are indeed found in the Qur’an (with the exception of the Sabbath) and is therefore common ground for discussion between Christians and Muslims.
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hamba2han,

Finding common ground is a very good basis to start, and the Ten Commandments are common ground to all three monotheistic faiths. One of things that I think Muslims misinterpret is thinking that a so called, ‘Christian nation’ represents the Christian faith and morals. In most instances, especially in a democracy it does not.
 
mercytruth said:
One of things that I think Muslims misinterpret is thinking that a so called, ‘Christian nation’ represents the Christian faith and morals. In most instances, especially in a democracy it does not.
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And morals are superior in Muslim countries? Please

Have you watched the news recently. These Muslim countries are God-forsaken places.
 
Augustine3 said:
How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel was corrupt? I challenge any Muslim to justify this Surah…
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What remains in the books of the Christians of the Injil/“Good-News” given to Isa Ibn-Maryam (aleyhi sallam) and what testimony is given in said “New Testament” of his life and teaching (whatever the deficiencies of said accounts) is sufficientand still contain the truth.

No one who reads the “canonical New Testament” attentively (either at face value or with scholarly erudition) walks away with an opinion which differs than that of the Qur’an in its testimony - that “the Trinity” and the alleged participation of Isa Al-Masih (aleyhi sallam) in “God’s essence” is a doctrine of the priests and later innovators, Isa (aleyhi sallam) came as one confirming the Law of Musa (aleyhi sallam), and that the matter of how he left the world was a doubtful matter amongst the early Christians (ex. Mark’s account has no “resurrection narrative” - and the other three “gospel writers” offer differing accounts, including of the circumstances of his being taken to Paradise.)
 
This is really an extension to a post of mine in an earlier thread and is an example of how verse 5:47 in the Qur’an explains the disobedience of Christians caused by them not judging based on what has been revealed to them as recorded in their own scriptures on whether or not something is good or evil

Let us examine what the Second Commandment says in the Book of Leviticus:

“Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.” … Leviticus 26:1

Does anyone see the word “worship” in this verse of the Bible?

The Second Commandment is warning against ‘making’ any graven images, ‘erecting’ them and ‘bowing down’ to these statues and pictures.

It does NOT explicitly warn against worshiping statues… but it does indeed warn against either making and/or erecting and/or bowing down to them.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

In the immortal words of Benjamin Netanyahu – “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then what is it?”

And so, if something looks like a graven image, then making that object, erecting that object and bowing down to that object is very likely to be a most serious and major sin as stated in the Second Commandment… and committing a sin does NOT in any way, shape or form bring anyone closer to God.
 
Dave_B said:
If you read the Quran and hadith, you will find Muhammed would crucify and cut the hands and feet of those whop disagreed with him.

He ordered the beheading of hundreds of people, had people’s hands and feet cut off, and other acts of cruel and violent torture.

People need to be awake to what the reality is of what Islam represents.
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Telling us such things with neither details nor (most importantly) context does nothing to further knowledge or understanding.

That said, do you impugn the sacred law detailed in the Pentateuch or as portrayed in the various prophetic and historical books of the Tanakh as well?

I believe I have heard this line of thinking described as “‘nicer than God’ Christianity.”
 
Dave_B said:
And morals are superior in Muslim countries? Please

Have you watched the news recently. These Muslim countries are God-forsaken places.
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There is less tolerance for pornography, gay marriage, usury, anything goes in entertainment, and in the media, for example. These are some examples of the lack of morals that Muslims usually equate with all Christians who are living in 'Christian nations".

I am well aware of what is going on in other Muslim countries. Let’s face it, what governments represent, or what radical groups represent, are not always the measure of the sincere, humble citizens thereof.

So, the teachings of Jesus are clear in not being spiritually proud. We are also commanded by Jesus to pray for, and to love our enemies. The teachings of Jesus are much more difficult to obey than the teachings of Mohammed. That is why Ghandi had such a difficult time embracing the Christian faith, there are not many of us who are obeying ‘the prophet like unto Moses’.
 
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