survey Mary is God? yes or no?

[Robert_in_SD]

“And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.” Holy Qur’an 5:116

Do you believe that Mary is God?

Is there anywhere in Catholic History where it was believed that Mary is God?

The answer to both your questions is NO.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam everyone;
ilah in Arabic means god, Al-ilah means THE god, that is God.
The Qur’an speaks about people taking Mary as god (ilah) and not God (Al-ilah)

Catholics have the firm belief that prayers will be answered ONLY if made through Mary; from the Muslim point of view, that firm belief is synonym to worship, that is taking Mary as god. In Islam there is no intermediaries between God and His creation, Muslims pray to God directly, We believe He only One Who can here all the prayers -made by every single member of His creation- at once, Muslims don’t believe that any other except God has that power (to hear all the prayers at once).

From where did our Catholics Brethren get the firm belief that prayers are answered only if made through Mary? And from where did they get the belief that she can hear all the prayers at once, in every corner of the globe?

As for the Qur’an getting the trinity, the subject has been touched upon in another thread here

Salaam.
Joseph.

Joseph;

Check your facts please. Catholics do NOT believe that prayers are only answered if made through Mary. We ask Mary to pray with us to God, but nowhere have I ever been taught that I had to make my prayers to God through Mary. You need to check your sources for accuracy.

 

[Myangel]

I have a DEEP DEVOTION to the Blessed Mother and no one is EVER going to make me feel guilty for that. She is the mother of Jesus … The Angel said to her, “Hail full of grace” and that pretty much sums it up. A devotion to someone is different than worshipping someone.

Catholics keep explaining this over and over and it never seems to sink in :banghead:

I really dont know why we bother, Protestants and Muslims know exactly how we feel about/towards Mary, yet they continue with their bashing

 

[inJESUS]

They all know the response but another big NO won’t hurt

 

[YADA]

Hello SemperFi,

I was not saying something was Dogma that is not. WHile it is commonly held that Mary died and was assumed into heaven the Church has never pronounced as dogma that Mary died. The Church teaches as dogma that at the end of her earthly existence Mary was assumed into heaven. The Church has never said explicitely that Mary died. I agree that that is the most commonly held belief and one I take no exception to.

My point was that the beleif in the assumtion of the Blessed Mother is not unique to Judeo-Christian understanding. Others have been identified as not suffering bodily decay before being assummed into heaven. And Enoch was spared death and assumed directly to heaven. Poor Lazarus had to die twice.

Also, a Marine [1975 - 1976 Cpl] Semper Fidelis. Just an aside, we celebrated the 230th Marine Corps Birthday with a Mass and reception in the parish hall after last Nov. 10th. Sandwiches, cake, etc. We had a woman marine airplane mechanic from WWII and an eye witness to the famous flag raising, a member of the Black Sheep Squadron (Korea) etc. Every branch of the services were represented, it was very nice.

 

[KnightErrantJR]

Mary is not divine, she is not a person in the Trinity. God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are of one substance, and are ONE GOD.

I revere Mary as the Mother of God. When I feel that something is particularly important, when I have the time, and especially when it has to do with families and matters of compassion, I ask Mary to pray for me and to intercede when my prayers have to do with the subjects that I detailed above. This is similar to when I have a concern at work. I can send an e-mail directly to the guy that runs the company, and have before (like when he made us work on Easter . . . but that is another topic), but I can also tell my Team Leader and the Supervisor above him about this matter, to show how concerned I am about the topic at hand.

I respect and revere the apostles, the popes, the early church fathers, many leaders throughout history, all to varying degrees. None of this respect or reverece has anything to do with ascribing them divine status. You might just as soon say that I worship Abraham Lincoln.

 

[UBERROGO]

“And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.” Holy Qur’an 5:116

Do you believe that Mary is God?

Is there anywhere in Catholic History where it was believed that Mary is God?

Why is the quran written in king james speak? I find this odd on several levels.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

“And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.” Holy Qur’an 5:116

Do you believe that Mary is God?

Is there anywhere in Catholic History where it was believed that Mary is God?

Some Christians do worship Mary

answering-christianity.com/worship_mary.htm

 

[exoflare]

gurrato alaien:

Some Christians do worship Mary

answering-christianity.com/worship_mary.htm

Don’t you have even one original thought?

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam All;
I see that many of our Catholic Brethren reacted to my post, treating what I stated as being ignorant and yes it was ignorant because I added the word ONLY.
Now I remove the word ONLY and rewrite my statement: “*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary” Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[LilyM]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam All;
I see that many of our Catholic Brethren reacted to my post, treating what I stated as being ignorant and yes it was ignorant because I added the word ONLY.
Now I remove the word ONLY and rewrite my statement: “*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary” Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

Salaam.
Joseph.

Joseph I have many more problems with this whole thread than just the words ‘only through Mary’ - the whole suggestion that any intelligent Christian would believe Mary is God or is a person of the Trinity is somewhat offensive.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam All;
I see that many of our Catholic Brethren reacted to my post, treating what I stated as being ignorant and yes it was ignorant because I added the word ONLY.
Now I remove the word ONLY and rewrite my statement: “*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary” Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

Salaam.
Joseph.

No. The only thing that we believe is that she is praying for us, like the other saints on Earth as well as in Heaven. Prayers will only be answered if they are the will of God. Also, prayers are not made “through” Mary. That wording does sound like idolatry. The only form of intercessory prayer allowed by the Catholic Church is prayers which will ask the saint to pray for you.

Also, it isn’t even a requirement in the Catholic Church to ask the saints to pray for you, but it does not go against our theology with the communion of saints (Church Triumphant is the church in Heaven who have achieved the Beatific Vision and are with God and His angels, which is still connected through the body of Christ to Church Militant which is the Church on Earth, and we are also connected to Church Suffering which are the souls that are in purgatory which will eventually be in Heaven once cleansed of worldy desires whom we do pray for).

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Myangel:

I really dont know why we bother, Protestants and Muslims know exactly how we feel about/towards Mary, yet they continue with their bashing

How is asking this question considered bashing or being disrespectful when Its purpose is to expose an error in the quran.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

UBERROGO:

Why is the quran written in king james speak? I find this odd on several levels.

I never considered that before. Was not the koran written about 1,000 years before the king james bible?

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Please get back on track.

The OP is about if Mary is God.

If you have another topic you’d like to bring up, please do so in another thread.

Thanks!

Rachel

 

[George_Waters]

"*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary" Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

No. Prayers are answered ONLY at the discretion of God. Asking Mary, any saint or any living person to pray for you will not guarantee the prayer will be answered.

Any notion that the intercession of another will automatically gain a positive result is quite frankly absurd.

You removed “only”, now remove “will” and you’ll be getting close to a “firm belief”.

 

[blueadept]

Joseph_Alison:

Salaam All;
I see that many of our Catholic Brethren reacted to my post, treating what I stated as being ignorant and yes it was ignorant because I added the word ONLY.
Now I remove the word ONLY and rewrite my statement: “*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary” Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

Salaam.
Joseph.

Your statement is still just as ignorant. Mary does not need to be part of the prayer equation for us. We honor Mary. Jesus followed all of the commandments which included honoring your father and mother. So in honoring Mary, we are following Jesus’s example. To say that our prayers WILL be answered because they are made through Mary, is still an ignorant statement.

Honoring a special person does not equal worshipping them. The context of your statement drives most Catholics nuts. :banghead:

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam all;
The statements below were made by Catholic Saints and Popes. I took them from the thread Does not Allah know what Catholics believe? which dealt with the same topic. They show that Mary is not taken as a normal person by the higher Catholic authorities.

“He who neglects the service of the Blessed Virgin will die in his sins. He who does not invoke thee, O Lady, will never get to Heaven. Not only will those from whom Mary turns her countenance not be saved, but there will be no hope of their salvation. No one can be saved without the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary.” St. Bonaventure, “Psalter of the Blessed Virgin Mary,” Ps.116; DDP, p. 413; IPM, p. 90; GM, p. 221, 170; SOR, p. 30, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 1: “The Book of Mary,” Chapter 3: “Those Who Refuse to Honor Our Lady Will Be Lost”).
geocities.com/Athens/Tro…tolic1chp3.html

“All our hope do we repose in the most Blessed Virgin… in her who is the safest refuge and the most trustworthy helper of all who are in danger… in her who has destroyed all heresies and snatched the faithful people and nations from all kinds of direst calamities; in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers”…
Pope Pius IX, in Ineffabilis Deus (The Immaculate Conception) Apostolic Constitution issued on December 8, 1854, Section titled “Hoped-For Results”.
papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm

“Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin… so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her” In the Encyclical of February 2, 1849. Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, “Essentials of Evangelical Theology”, Vol. 1, page 196.)

St. Ephrem of Edessa: “O Virgin most pure… It is you who have reconciled us with God, you are the only refuge of sinners and the safe harbor of those who are shipwrecked; you are the consolation of the world, the ransom of captives, the health of the weak, the joy of the afflicted and the salvation of all who have recourse to you, and we beg you to have pity on us.” St. Ephrem of Edessa, in Prayer to Mary, Mother of Compassion.
celtic-catholic-church.o…an_prayers.html

“Thus St. John Damascene, an outstanding herald of this traditional truth, spoke out with powerful eloquence when he compared the bodily Assumption of the loving Mother of God with her other prerogatives and privileges…‘It was fitting that she (Mary), who had carried the Creator as a child at her breast, should dwell in the divine tabernacles. It was fitting that the spouse, whom the Father had taken to himself, should live in the divine mansions.’” Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (Defining the Dogma of the Assumption), Encyclical promulgated on November 1, 1950, #21.
papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12MUNIF.HTM

“God the Holy Spirit entrusted his wondrous gifts to Mary, his faithful spouse, and chose her as the dispenser of all he possesses, so that she distributes all his gifts and graces to whom she wills, as much as she wills, how she wills and when she wills”
“Mary was the only one who merited to be called the Mother as Spouse of God.” St. Augustine of Hippo, in Sermons #208 (quoted by St. Alphonsus de Liguori in The Glories of Mary, p 304 (New York: Redemptorist, 1931).
“She (Mary) is a virgin who ‘keeps whole and pure the fidelity she has pledged to her Spouse’…The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation.” Pope John Paul II, in Redemptoris Mater (On the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Life of the Pilgrim Church), Encyclical promulgated on March 25, 1987, #5, 26).
vatican.va/holy_father/j…s-mater_en.html

“St. Anselm reminds: ‘We often obtain more promptly what we ask by invoking Mary than by invoking Jesus. Her Son is lord and judge of all, and discerns the merits of each one; therefore, if He does not immediately grant the prayers of all, He is just. When however, the Mother’s name is invoked, though the merits of the suppliant are not such as to deserve that his favor be granted, those of the Mother supply, that he may receive.’ Many things are asked from God and are not granted; they are asked from Mary and are obtained. Now why is this? Because God has thus decreed to honor His Mother.” St. Alphonsus Ligouri, in The Glories of Mary, Chapter IV "To Thee Do We Cry, p 48. lightministries.com/id605.htm#prayers

Continued…

 

[Joseph_Alison]

…Continued and end.

Pope Leo XIII gave Mary unlimited power, only God Almighty can claim: “The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited. How unerringly right, then, are Christian souls when they turn to Mary for help…How rightly, too, has every nation and every liturgy without exception acclaimed her great renown, which has grown greater with the voice of each succeeding century. Among her many other titles we find her hailed as ‘our Lady, our Mediatrix,’ (St. Bernard, Serm.II in Adv. 4) ‘the Reparatrix of the whole world,’ (St. Tharasius, Orat. in Praesentatione) ‘the Dispenser of all heavenly gifts.’ (On Off. Graec., 8 Dec.).” Pope Leo XIII, in Adiutricem (On the Rosary), Encyclical promulgated on September 5, 1895, #8.

“Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? “All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin’s power”, so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure. ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM Look for #76

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[shannin]

carol marie:

Sometimes I ask others to pray to God for me… this includes my brothers & sisters here on earth and my brothers & sisters in heaven (the Saints) but regardless of who is praying - still it is God alone who answers prayers.

Yes Carol Marie, What an awesome faith we have. We have the Communion of Saints and the Mystical Body of Christ. Of course it is only God and God ALONE that answers our prayers. We know that but they refuse to open their hearts to the real truth. How sad.