survey Mary is God? yes or no?

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Myangel:
Please tell me you are joking? Do you really believe that Jesus did not perform any miracles? ARE YOU SERIOUS? :whacky: :hmmm: All the muslim people I have known believe that Jesus performed miracles and that he was the mightiest (I disagree with this) prophet! What was Mohammed’s miracle?
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I beleive that Mohammed’s miracle, and I say this with all charity, was that he was not dispatched very shortly after he began his ministry.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam All;
I see that many of our Catholic Brethren reacted to my post, treating what I stated as being ignorant and yes it was ignorant because I added the word ONLY.
Now I remove the word ONLY and rewrite my statement: “*Catholics have the *firm belief that prayers will be answered when made through Mary” Is this statement still correct? Do Catholics have that firm belief and conviction?

Salaam.
Joseph.
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👋 Our God is a God of the Living… not the dead there are not two churches…one here on earth and one in heaven…but one church only.
It is natural to ask friends and family to pray for us here on earth so too we can ask those who are now in heaven to pray for us as well.

Catholics worship and pray to God only!

Muslems need to show respect for the beliefs of others just as they demand this respect for their beliefs. Never mind the little cat and mouse game you are playing…this is dishonest. You know that Catholicism does not teach that Mary is God. Nor do Catholics believe this unless they are some heretical group with holes in their heads.

In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran, there are forty-one verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran, in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.
**
Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true ‘Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. However, after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: “Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.”

In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, “I surpass all the women, except Mary.”
Shalom,
Catherine
palphot.com/files/Products/Calendar/Icons/307-18731_100x144.jpg
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JimG:
Where is it written that God must write everything down for us? As a Catholic, I don’t believe in the doctrine of sola scriptura. It’s not up to us to decree how God must operate with respect to man.
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Salaam JimG;
I did not say you believe in Sola Scriptura; and my questions were not about Sola Scriptura.
The information you presented is part of the unseen to us, it is known to God only. Because any information has a source, I wanted to have an idea on your source. A belief a serious as the one you presented should have a source. So again, I ask the same questions:
Did God inform that the saints no longer exist in time and space, and by what mean He informed you?
Did God inform that the saints are united with Him, and by what mean He informed you?
Did God inform that the saints hear prayers through His Will and Power, and by what mean He informed you?
Be it a tradition or a scripture or any other mean, I will not discuss the validity of the source you may point out to, it is not my right; all I want to know is that there is some kind of bachup to the information you presented.
Thanks.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam JimG;
Did God inform that the saints are united with Him, and by what mean He informed you?
Did God inform that the saints hear prayers through His Will and Power, and by what mean He informed you?

Salaam.
Joseph.
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Salaam Joseph

I’ll leave the other questions to those who know better, and only answer these two.

To answer your questions we believe that the Saints are in heaven with God, see John 14:2-3 ‘In my father’s house there are many rooms … I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go … I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am there you may be also’. We can see that Jesus AND his followers are all together in ‘the Father’s house’.

For your second question certainly we believe that the saints hear our prayers (of course it’s through God’s will - we don’t believe they can do anything except through God) There are many miracles such as disease cures which have been performed specially after we pray to particular saints to ask for their help in certain matters.

One example: If you read most newspapers classified ads you might see notices that say ‘Thank you Saint Jude for prayers answered’. This means that a person has prayed to Saint Jude for a particular favour from God and it has been granted to them. There are also scientifically verified miracles which have to occur before the Church officially declares that any person is a Saint and in heaven. These miracles have to be the direct result of prayers to that particular person.
 
Ms. Myangel,

In respose to my questions:

**Did Jesus, who was God Almighty (=Jesus), perform any miracle or any wonder or any sign from his own?

Show me which sign or which wonder or which miracle, “God Almighty” performed from his own power? Please show me atleast one.**

instead of answering them, you asked me:
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Myangel:
Please tell me you are joking? Do you really believe that Jesus did not perform any miracles? ARE YOU SERIOUS?
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Well, Ms. Myangel, you did not read my questions properly. Now let me re-pose my questions with some hightlights/emphasise:

**Did Jesus, who was God Almighty (=Jesus), perform any miracle or any wonder or any sign from his own?

Show me which sign or which wonder or which miracle, “God Almighty (Jesus)” performed from his own power? Please show me atleast one.**

.
 
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Justice2006:
Did Jesus, who was God Almighty (=Jesus), perform any miracle or any wonder or any sign from his own?

Show me which sign or which wonder or which miracle, “God Almighty (Jesus)” performed from his own power? Please show me atleast one.

.
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On behalf of all Christians I would answer: Jesus is ONE God together with the Father therefore ALL his miracles are from his own power as God.

Jesus says ‘thou, Father, art IN ME and I IN THEE … WE (Jesus and the Father) ARE ONE … and THOU IN ME’. (John 17 verses 21-23).

Jesus here is clearly claiming to be ONE with God, therefore God’s power = Jesus’ power and Jesus’ power = Gods power.
 
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horsegirl:
i think you’ve all been looking for this!
MARY-IS-GOD CATHOLIC MOVEMENT
maryisgod.org.

they are a group of Lay & Religious Catholics promoting Mary Worship and claiming it as the real third secret of Fatima.
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I already answered that in post 132 above, it is a false teaching and that person is automatically excomunicated based on Gal 1:6-8.
 
Hi LilyM I think our Muslim friend has the following verses in mind,

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 8:28
So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

These texts are not saying that Jesus can not do something of his own power. What they are saying is Jesus does what he sees his Father doing first. Anotherwards, the Father makes his will known to the Son, Jesus and then Jesus does his Father’s will on earth.
 
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horsegirl:
warning:

They don’t have official approval by the Catholic Church.
If they did they would have posted it already.
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They are ***not Catholics. ***
 
Joseph:
The Source of all revelation is the Word of God, who in assuming a human nature, fulfilled the promises of the old covenant and completed his revelation to mankind, establishing his Church to hand on that revelation. So the source is Jesus, through his Church. Obviously you do not accept that source, but Christians from the very earliest days have demonstrated their belief in the intercession of the saints.

Your way of thinking is this: God in his dealings with mankind must make sure that everything is written down.

My way of thinking is this: God chooses how he will deal with mankind and make his revelation known to us. He chose to come in person to reveal himself to us. Not everything he did and said was written, but he taught his apostles what was needed, and they handed it down through the ages.

Now let me ask you a question. Is it a Muslim belief that those who die in the service and good graces of Allah go directly to paradise? Do they experience bodily pleasures there? If so, how can they experience bodily pleasure, since they have no body at that point, it having been left behind on the earth? Is the answer to this written somewhere in the Quran?
 
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LilyM:
To answer your questions we believe that the Saints are in heaven with God, see John 14:2-3 ‘In my father’s house there are many rooms … I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go … I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am there you may be also’. We can see that Jesus AND his followers are all together in ‘the Father’s house’.
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Salaam LilyM;
The abode of Jesus is heaven or paradise, and those who follow the teaching of their prophet will be with him. No doubt about this.

Since you believe that Jesus is God and you believe that Jesus is in his father’s house, I can see where you come from.

However, I think the disciples did not believe Jesus was God in the context of the verses you quoted; that is because one verse earlier, in JN 14:1 “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me” it shows that the disciples believed in God, but Jesus -since he is asking his disciples to believe also in him- was not considered to be that God by his intimate inner circle, and if his intimate inner circle did not believe him to be God at that moment, why is it stated elsewhere in other Gospels that people “worshipped” him, called him “Lord” and so on?
Did the common crowd had more faith that the closers disciples of Jesus?
Who was the God the disciples believed in, in verse JN 14:1, and who obviously did not include Jesus in that status?

I would like to go back to the verses you quoted: “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am there you may be also” [JN 14:2-3] Did Jesus come again and receive his disciples unto himself? If the answer is yes it was the Holy Spirit, then why am I told that the Holy Spirit was already with the disciples when Jesus was talking to them about sending them the Paraclete?
For your second question certainly we believe that the saints hear our prayers (of course it’s through God’s will - we don’t believe they can do anything except through God) There are many miracles such as disease cures which have been performed specially after we pray to particular saints to ask for their help in certain matters.
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That is your belief, although I don’t agree with it, I respect it.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
Since we are talking about John, it’d be wiser to quote the whole passage:

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

6 **Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. **

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? **he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? ** …

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Are these the words of a mere mortal? are these the words of someone who considers himself different than God?
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam everyone;
ilah in Arabic means god, Al-ilah means THE god, that is God.
The Qur’an speaks about people taking Mary as god (ilah) and not God (Al-ilah)

Catholics have the firm belief that prayers will be answered ONLY if made through Mary;
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WRONG. Catholics believe no such thing. I don’t know where you got that idea but you should really find a knew source. The Our Father never mentions Mary. The Jesus Prayer never mentions Mary. The Kyrie Eleison never mentions her. Hundreds of other prayers of Catholics never mention Mary.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam LilyM;

I would like to go back to the verses you quoted: “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself, that where I am there you may be also” [JN 14:2-3]

Did Jesus come again and receive his disciples unto himself? If the answer is yes it was the Holy Spirit, then why am I told that the Holy Spirit was already with the disciples when Jesus was talking to them about sending them the Paraclete?

Salaam.
Joseph.
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Good point, Mr. Alison.

.
 
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Justice2006:
Good point, Mr. Alison.

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A good point only in that it demonstrates a lack on understanding and a simplistic view of the Trinity.
 
In my experience Muslims don’t bother to learn what we believe about the Holy Trinity. They only listen to the mullahs. In Saudi Arabia you can’t even read the Bible or any Christian book, so how could they ever really learn what we believe.
 
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cestusdei:
In my experience Muslims don’t bother to learn what we believe about the Holy Trinity.
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Mr. cestusde,

What is really you Christians have, that Muslims must learn from you, about your Holy Trinity when, it is still a mystery, even after 2000 years?

Christians have been using many examples, such as of three forms of matter and strange mathematical “formulas” and even Graphical childish diagrams, to explain the mysterious Holy Trinity, which they (Trinitarian Christians) themselves have not understood, till now.

.
 
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Justice2006:
Mr. cestusde,

What is really you Christians have, that Muslims must learn from you, about your Holy Trinity when, it is still a mystery, even after 2000 years?

Christians have been using many examples, such as of three forms of matter and strange mathematical “formulas” and even Graphical childish diagrams, to explain the mysterious Holy Trinity, which they (Trinitarian Christians) themselves have not understood, till now.

.
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Justice2006,

I have two questions for you since you brought up the Trinity;
  1. Why do Muslims limit the power of God?
By claiming that God is not triune you are placing a limitation on His power with your limited human comprehension. God is all-powerful and is not limited by anything.
  1. Why do Muslims assume that they completely understand the nature and ways of God?
You claim claim the Trinity “make no sense” as if God is subject to limited human understanding and limited by that understanding.

The Trinity is not a mystery in the sense most commonly implied, but in the sense that we can not fully understand the nature of God. Only human ignorance and arrogance would limit God and claim to know His ways.
 
Salaam Goeoge;
George Waters:
A good point only in that it demonstrates a lack on understanding and a simplistic view of the Trinity.
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George, I never met someone (a Christian that is) who claimed to understand the trinity and I wish the trinity’s view were simple so our Christian Brethren could educate us.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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