Survey: Religious superiors support possibility of women deacons

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Not what I was taught when I was in discernment for the Diaconate, which included a history class on the Diaconate.

Also, full immersion Baptism wasn’t always the case and in fact as the Christian Church kept hidden in many cases, they did not use full immersion.

It made somewhat of a comeback in Rome after Constantine donated Roman baths to the Church and they were used to have full immersion Baptisms.
However, by that point in time, I’m not sure how prevalent deaconesses were.

Jim
 
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It was back in the 90’s, so the history most likely was updated.

Don’t blame him, for as it was, he told us the history of the Diaconate was difficult to research for there wasn’t much written on it,

Jim
 
Really doesn’t say much different than what my teacher told us.

As the author in your link stated, “The subject of the precise status of deaconesses is confessedly obscure and confused,”

Jim
 
I believe the Church would be making a bad mistake to ordain women to the diaconate.

If you think the drums of women’s ordination to the priesthood have been loud for the past 20 years, imagine what they’d be like if the Church ordains deaconesses ?

The thing is, the function of what a deaconess did as far as we know, isn’t necessary in today’s world.

Jim
 
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People in the West know very little about the Orthodox Church, never mind Roman Catholicism.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
It wasn’t possible before.
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It is now possible in the Orthodox church. And AFAIK the Roman Church has been pushing for a reunion with the Orthodox Church. If there is a reunion, then the Roman Church would have to recognize the Sacraments of the Orthodox Church as valid. It won’t do to have a reunion and not to recognize each others’ Sacraments.
 
What is the function of a deaconess in the Orthodox Church, and why would they be needed in the Roman Catholic Church, other than to please feminists, who BTW, won’t be satisfied there ?

Jim
 
My problem, just like those yelling for women’s ordination, there’s little call for prayer on the issue, but lots of demanding for it.

Jim
 
Yes. Really. How can you have a reunion between two churches if one church does not recognize the Sacraments of the other as valid?
 
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Most of the Catholic literature has followed the French theologian Martimort in asserting that women were never ordained as deacons, simply given a blessing.

In the Orthodox Church, a pan Othodox consultation called by the Ecumenical Patriarch endorsed the opposite conclusion, largely based on an analysis by the Greek theologian Theodorou.

In the US, Kyriaki Fitzgerald has written on Theodorou and other issues related to women as deacons. On the Catholic side, Phyllis Zagano has supported the ordination of women as deacon; she is a member of the current papal commission studying the issue. (Gerhard Müller, a principle opponent of ordaining women as deacons, had been a member of the commission until he left his post as head of the CDF. I am sure his opposition is well represented on the commission.)
 
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I don’t think you can say that. There are branches that do not have women deacons, but I don’t see where it is the case that one branch has said that the women deacons of the other branch are not valid deaconesses?
 
IMHO, and I am not expert in this, I think a female diaconate is coming to the Roman Church regardless. Take a look at the survey and at what has happened in the Roman Church since Vatican II and how women have assumed leadership roles in all areas of society except the Catholic Church. And it has been mentioned that the current Pope is tolerant of at least some types of change.
 
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Only a few vocal people ?

Your observance is different than mine.

Jim
 
AlNg said:
Then how was it possible before?
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It wasn’t. Deaconesses were never part of the diaconate.
AlNg said:
Also, on Feb. 17, 2017, five women were ordained deaconesses in the Orthodox Church. And is it true that the Roman Church recognizes the Sacraments of the Orthodox Church?
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It would be news to the Orthodox that the installation of a deaconess, even if someone used the term “ordained”, was sacramental Holy Orders.

(even though one of the Orthodox churches does lay hands).

There are also EC churches with deaconesses (but not female deadness) today.
AlNg said:
How do you show causation, except from correlation?
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You start with a testable hypothesis, and more than a single situation in which to apply it. (don’t get me going; I have a PhD in this, and could end up teaching Stat 200 impromptu . . . 😱:roll_eyes:🤯)

hawk
 
dochawk said:
You start with a testable hypothesis, and more than a single situation in which to apply it.
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Hypothesis testing does not prove causation. Suppose your significance level alpha is 1%. If the observed value is in the critical region you will reject the null hypothesis and you can be at least 99% sure that you are right, But I don’t see where this proves causation. Further, there is an additional problem if your critical region is too small you could end up making a type II error and accepting the null hypothesis, even though it is false. How are you going to determine the size of the critical region objectively?
dochawk said:
(don’t get me going; I have a PhD in this, and could end up teaching Stat 200 impromptu .
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As is well known and discussed in popular books such as How to lie with Statistics, many sample sizes are too small to give reliable results.
And to be an expert in statistics you will need to take Stat 300 and Stat 400 at least, but probably more. Stat 200 is not enough. And further, you should have passed at least the first two actuary exams to understand many real life applications, especially in the insurance industry.
 
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