Survey: Religious superiors support possibility of women deacons

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The Church’s law IS God’s law. To say otherwise is to espouse Protestantism.
 
God could have us all in hell if He wanted.
 
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YourNameHere said:
So you are judging me now. Thanks.
And you are saying that the church’s law overrides what God wants. Wow. I did not know the church was the final authority. I thought God is.
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I am simply saying that anyone who rejects a Church teaching puts themselves into a state of mortal sin (assuming they knew such a thing was of grave matter), and if it’s an infallible teaching it is additionally heresy.
Saying that it is possible that women might be ordained sometime in the future contradicts Church teaching.

In case you were poorly catechised there is no difference between Church teaching and God’s teaching. They are identical. Christ established the Catholic Church, entrusted the Deposit of Faith to it, and gave it authority to teach in matters of faith and morals. That means ALL Church doctrine has the 100% authority of God behind it.
 
So says the Church. The Church is God’s instrument, not vice versa.
God gave us the Church. The Church did not give us God.
Priority straightened.
 
The only thing this survey tells me is what I already suspected about the US Church. That a majority of the Religious Orders in the US are heretical and/or influenced by heretical ideas - hence why most of them are slowly dying.

😦
 
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YourNameHere said:
What I said is that if God wants women to be priests, God will make it happen. It has nothing to do with what the church wants.
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If God wanted women to be priests, it would have happened 2000 years ago.

Jesus was NOT afraid of social norms.
 
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YourNameHere said:
With God anything is possible. God knows no timeline.
Eventually, women will be priests. Why? Because God’s people are both men and women.
I know that disturbs you to no end, Phil. I will pray for you.
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Thank you for the prayers.

However, I don’t think you understand why the idea disturbs me.

It has NOTHING to do with women. It has everything to do with dogma. Dogma CANNOT change. If women are allowed to receive Holy Orders, then theoretically, there is NOTHING that can prevent a heretical group of clergy from preaching that our understanding of the Trinity is wrong.

If one dogma is changed, then it opens all dogma to change.

That’s why the thought disturbs me. Women receiving Holy Orders would be the beginning of the end of the Catholic Church. Not because they are women, but because a dogma would have been changed.

God Bless
 
Let’s look at reality.
We have a male clerical power structure in the Church that has gone wildly off the rails. The abuses of power and “in-bedment” with the world cry out for something to be done.

Pining for the rosy past, where women stay in their place, will change nothing, and changing nothing always makes matters worse.

Look out your window: the power structure within the Church is being abused.
Something has to be done, and at the same time we must stay within settled magisterial teaching. It can be done, but it requires courage on all sides, and an openness of faith and mind.
 
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phil19034 said:
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YourNameHere:
With God anything is possible. God knows no timeline.
Eventually, women will be priests. Why? Because God’s people are both men and women.
I know that disturbs you to no end, Phil. I will pray for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the prayers.

However, I don’t think you understand why the idea disturbs me.

It has NOTHING to do with women. It has everything to do with dogma. Dogma CANNOT change. If women are allowed to receive Holy Orders, then theoretically, there is NOTHING that can prevent a heretical group of clergy from preaching that our understanding of the Trinity is wrong.

If one dogma is changed, then it opens all dogma to change.

That’s why the thought disturbs me. Women receiving Holy Orders would be the beginning of the end of the Catholic Church. Not because they are women, but because a dogma would have been changed.

God Bless
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Dogma doesn’t change. Dogma can’t change, by definition.
What changes is people. You and I.
 
goout said:
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phil19034:
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YourNameHere:
With God anything is possible. God knows no timeline.
Eventually, women will be priests. Why? Because God’s people are both men and women.
I know that disturbs you to no end, Phil. I will pray for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the prayers.

However, I don’t think you understand why the idea disturbs me.

It has NOTHING to do with women. It has everything to do with dogma. Dogma CANNOT change. If women are allowed to receive Holy Orders, then theoretically, there is NOTHING that can prevent a heretical group of clergy from preaching that our understanding of the Trinity is wrong.

If one dogma is changed, then it opens all dogma to change.

That’s why the thought disturbs me. Women receiving Holy Orders would be the beginning of the end of the Catholic Church. Not because they are women, but because a dogma would have been changed.

God Bless
Click to expand...
Dogma doesn’t change. Dogma can’t change, by definition.
What changes is people. You and I.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but I fail to understand your point.

Women cannot receive Holy Orders. That is a dogma of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches.

If a woman receives Holy Orders, the a Dogma will have been changed - which will be BAD NEWS

God Bless
 
phil19034 said:
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goout:
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phil19034:
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YourNameHere:
With God anything is possible. God knows no timeline.
Eventually, women will be priests. Why? Because God’s people are both men and women.
I know that disturbs you to no end, Phil. I will pray for you.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the prayers.

However, I don’t think you understand why the idea disturbs me.

It has NOTHING to do with women. It has everything to do with dogma. Dogma CANNOT change. If women are allowed to receive Holy Orders, then theoretically, there is NOTHING that can prevent a heretical group of clergy from preaching that our understanding of the Trinity is wrong.

If one dogma is changed, then it opens all dogma to change.

That’s why the thought disturbs me. Women receiving Holy Orders would be the beginning of the end of the Catholic Church. Not because they are women, but because a dogma would have been changed.

God Bless
Click to expand...
Dogma doesn’t change. Dogma can’t change, by definition.
What changes is people. You and I.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but I fail to understand your point.

Women cannot receive Holy Orders. That is a dogma of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Churches.

If a woman receives Holy Orders, the a Dogma will have been changed - which will be BAD NEWS

God Bless
Click to expand...
My point is, dogmas don’t change. You are worried about changing core truths. Core truths don’t change.
 
YourNameHere said:
So says the Church. The Church is God’s instrument, not vice versa.
God gave us the Church. The Church did not give us God.
Priority straightened.
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Your priority should be to get properly catechised!
Are you saying you reject the Church teaching (which is God’s teaching) that women can never be ordained?
 
First you did not express an opinion. You made a statement:

One day, women will be deacons.
One day, women will be priests.

Second if you outright reject/deny an infallible Church teaching or have obstinate doubts about it then that is heresy.
Stating as fact or opinion that women WILL be ordained one day contradicts Church teaching becasue infallible teachings CAN NEVER change.
 
My opinion. It is my opinion. A statement can and sometimes is an opinion.
I have not rejected any teachings of the church.
What I have said is that I believe, someday (if God wills it), that there will be woman serving as deacons and as priests.
The Church has evolved through the years. Once Mass was said only in Latin.
Things can and do change.
 
YourNameHere said:
My opinion. It is my opinion. A statement can and sometimes is an opinion.
I have not rejected any teachings of the church.
What I have said is that I believe, someday (if God wills it), that there will be woman serving as deacons and as priests.
The Church has evolved through the years. Once Mass was said only in Latin.
Things can and do change.
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You obviously do not understand what an infallible teaching is.
IT CAN NEVER BE CHANGED or are you really suggesting that an infallible doctrine can be changed??

By the way the FORM of the Mass falls under Church discipline. It is NOT doctrine.
The only things in a Mass that can’t be changed is the consecration and the priest receiving. Everything else can be changed.

I thought you would have known the difference between doctrine and discipline.
 
deMontfort said:
God spare us from fake Catholics…
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If baptized, they are not fake but real Catholics. Misinformed perhaps. Poorly catechized, perhaps. Sinners, all of them, like all of us.

The idea is not to be “spared” from them, but to gently help each get on the right path.

Because we all need help with that. We are a community and like any family we have problem children and sometimes we ourselves are the problem children. The idea is not to ostracize them, but help each other into fuller communion.

I realize it’s difficult sometimes. Ask a community of monks how difficult it is to all get along over a life time. Some will say it’s like being married to 50 different spouses. Ask the abbot how hard it is to keep everyone on the right path all the time. Abbots have gone crazy trying to do it at times.
 
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As far as I’m concerned if someone calls themselves “Catholic” but deny dogmas, they’re fake Catholics.
 
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