Survey: Religious superiors support possibility of women deacons

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The Church is run by people. People are capable of making mistakes.
 
Why is it so crucial that you judge what I have to say? You seem obsessed with me being wrong.
You have abundantly expressed your disdain for what I have to say.
 
YourNameHere said:
Why is it so crucial that you judge what I have to say? You seem obsessed with me being wrong.
You have abundantly expressed your disdain for what I have to say.
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This is coming from someone who doesn’t want to believe the Pope is correct?

When a poster furnishes a statement as evidence they are correct or may be correct but the statement used as evidence is incorrect, misleading or irrelevant to the point they want to prove, it is not rude for someone to correct the evidence given., nor does the correction constitute “judging” that poster as a person. Our Lord corrected people who were in error on a regular basis. It isn’t rude or uncharitable. (It can even be a spiritual work of mercy.)
 
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You have no idea what I believe.
I have stated a few opinions.
You do not like my opinions, so you fault me for having an opinion.
It is rude for you and others to bash me for having an opinion.
I see you are placing yourself right up there with the Lord saying that “Our Lord corrected people who were in error on a regular basis…” I don’t believe you are close to being on Our Lord’s level.
 
YourNameHere said:
You have no idea what I believe.
I have stated a few opinions.
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After I pointed out that Pope John Paul II had written:
… I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful …
You responded immediately with
YourNameHere said:
If God wants women to be ordained, they will be ordained as priests.
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and referred to the post containing that very pronouncement by Pope St. John Paul II as “…blah, blah, blah.”
(Which, by the way, was a bit on the edge for someone concerned about strenuously avoiding rude remarks.)

You have not made your beliefs a secret. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
 
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YourNameHere said:
Tell that to the victims of pedophile priests in Boston, Philadelphia, Dallas, etc.
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The Magesterium has never taught that the clergy are incapable of serious sin.
That makes your post an ad hominem attack, not counter evidence.

As one poster here so wisely posted:
YourNameHere said:
The Church is run by people. People are capable of making mistakes.
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As for what the Church teaches, however:
CCC 888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.415 They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith "endowed with the authority of Christ."416

CCC 889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

CCC 890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:

CCC 891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

CCC 892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful "are to adhere to it with religious assent"422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.
 
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YourNameHere said:
You have no idea what I believe.
I have stated a few opinions.
You do not like my opinions, so you fault me for having an opinion.
It is rude for you and others to bash me for having an opinion.
I see you are placing yourself right up there with the Lord saying that “Our Lord corrected people who were in error on a regular basis…” I don’t believe you are close to being on Our Lord’s level.
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PS If you don’t believe me, maybe you’ll believe Catholic Answers’ own Jimmy Akin?

See: Women’s Ordination: It’s Infallible
The teaching that the sacrament of holy orders can be conferred only on a baptized male is an infallible teaching of the Catholic faith which has been passed down since the time of Jesus. Of necessity, this has been clearly re-stated in recent documents of the Magisterium. We here present the two most important documents, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and the CDF’s response to a question concerning it, both of which were writter or ordered by Pope John Paul II. For further background we have also included a letter by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger concerning the CDF reply and the document 1976 CDF document Inter Insignores , which goes into the reasons for a male priesthood.
http://jimmyakin.com/library/womens-ordination-its-infallible

Whatever anybody could mean by “women could become deacons,” if they mean “could receive Holy Orders,” they are mistaken. If they mean something else by using the terms “woman deacon” or “deaconess,” then that is a different question.
 
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thistle said:
I find it hard to believe you are a Catholic. You spend your time bashing the Church and having doubts or rejecting some doctrines.
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That isn’t that unusual, especially among citizens of the US. What we love, we criticize, too, not just what we do not. What we care about, we want to improve by throwing in our opinion. That’s the way our secular life is. It tends to seep over.

What we Catholics raised in America often fail to keep in mind is that some spheres of life do not need the injection of our opinions to run as the Good Lord intended them to run. We can understand that our children have to do things they don’t like and don’t understand, but we think that once we ourselves have reached voting age we are competent to judge all things. I don’t count myself out of that; I have opinions about a lot of things that are above my pay grade and really none of my business. I’m hardly a rarity in that, though, LOL.

If someone told me that some fraction of religious superiors disagreed with the bishops, then, it wouldn’t surprise me. I’d figure the votes skew heavily towards religious congregations situated in democracies and especially those that give all their members a heavily-weighted voice in the decision-making. It is what people get used to.
 
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YourNameHere said:
I do not reject Catholic doctrines. But I do believe that the Church is ever changing and that one day, we will see women deacons and priests.
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Please accept this correction in the spirit it is meant, which is fraternal correction of someone who holds on to an opinion in error in good faith:
You cannot hold these two views simultaneously without contradicting yourself.

This is an excerpt from the Jimmy Akin documents I posted, written by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
The Pope’s intervention was necessary not simply to reiterate the validity of a discipline observed in the Church from the beginning, but to confirm a doctrine “preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents,” which “pertains to the Church’s divine consitution itself” (n. 4). In this way, the Holy Father intended to make clear that the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved solely to men could not be considered “open to debate” and neither could one attribute to the decision of the Church “a merely disciplinary force” (ibid).

The fruits of this Letter have been evident since its publication. Many consciences which in good faith had been disturbed, more by doubt than by uncertainty, found serenity once again thanks to the teaching of the Holy Father. However, some perplexity continued, not only among those who, distant from the Catholic faith, do not accept the existence of a doctrinal authority within the Church — that is, a Magisterium sacramentally invested with the authority of Christ (cf. Lumen Gentium , 21) — but also among some of the faithful to whom it continued to seem that the exclusion of women from the priestly ministry represents a form of injustice or discrimination against them. Some objected that it is not evident from Revelation that such an exclusion was the will of Christ for his Church, and others had questions concerning the assent owed to the Letter.

He goes on to explain why this doctrine is not discriminatory, but rather true, correct, and unchanging. Please read and reflect on these answers given by the Church, as it has been confirmed bluntly by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that this position is to be held definitively by the faithful. Doing the work required to accept this teaching is for your welfare. Please try to do it.
 
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Donkey said:
Where were the nuns/sisters in all this the past several decades?
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Well the cloistered Benedictines that I know (two monasteries of the Solesmes Congregation) are where they have always been: within the cloister, in full obedience to the Church, her Holy Father and her Magisterium. We rarely hear of these faithful nuns because, well, precisely because they are cloistered.

In the local news media (it used to be a large Montreal newspaper but it is strictly an on-line publication now), there was a great article some months back about the local cloistered Carmelites in Montreal.

Same thing: faithful, obedient nuns seeking communion with God. Zero politics being made. But they did have a sense of humour: when the nun assigned to be interviewed by the journalist described the nun’s day, she reminded the journalist to not forget the “t” in “sext”.

It was something of a rarity in today’s media, BTW, an overall positive attitude towards these cloistered nuns.
 
I see now that only in the past couple months did US Catholic nuns break silence about abuse.
Supposedly about 80% of US Nuns are speaking out.
Their timing is…😐
You can google ‘nuns break silence’ news
 
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