Survivors Angered by Pope's Decision to Reject Irish Bishops' Resignation

[tqualey]

Hi, Tantum,

Thank you for this post - I had never thought of it this way before!

God bless

Has anyone considered that the Pope --in choosing not to accept the resignations – is thereby making it crystal clear–should either of these bishops be called to account in the Irish legal system–that they are bishops? WIth responsibilities? That he isn’t doing what was sharply criticized when the late Pope accepted the resignation of Cardinal Law?

Suppose that part of the penance (which naturally can’t be spoken of save at the decision of the bishops themselves) by the Pope was, “I will absolve you from your sins, but you must stay on in your post, you must face whatever legal ramifications are demanded of you; the Church will not be accused of ‘cover ups’ by me even when I would be perfectly within my RIGHTS to accept your resignation and thereby bring you to a type of ‘safety’. If my bishops have sinned civilly they must pay all civil penalties in order to have their spiritual penalties remitted. . .”

Now, suppose that the Pope had accepted the resignation. Well, it seems to me that anytime he has accepted the resignations of those accused of wrongdoing that the victim survivors haven’t been exactly dancing jigs of joy either. So. . .is the Pope ‘rewarding’ the bishops? Gee, imagine you’re what, 70 years old, you’ve made a big MESS of your very important work, a lot of people are justifiably angry with you and the longer you stay, the worse things are likely to turn out for you. . .you have a chance to ‘retire’ --but the boss says “no.” You think these bishops are happy to stay on, knowing the anger is now going to get even worse? It seems to me that Pope Benedict could well be giving a punishment, and the possibility of even worse–of course, Benedict takes the long view regarding most any subject, not just the short-term, knee-jerk kind of reaction.

And we know that nothing he could do would please everybody. So he might as well do what is right (I’m sure he has a better idea than even the victims) even if he’s misunderstood. . .

 

[pete_29]

Well, I guess it’s over. The devil wins. Ireland of all places. Who’d of thought that. I guess some of you will be looking for a new place of worship. I’m not very smart, so I guess I’ll stick with the Catholic Church. I’ll keep trusting that whenever I disagree with the Church that I’m the one thats wrong, at least that’s the way I figure that Jesus set things up. I’ll miss you guys. Sorry for rambling on.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Kimmielittle,

Excellent:thumbsup:

Placing the blame seems to be all consuming… and distracting from the process of healing.

God bless

Actually, the abuses to Native People continued past adulthood. As an adult you were no longer in school, but you had no home to go back too. With no money, no land, you were placed into servitude. at the direction of the Church.

If we don’t want to forgive not forget or drop our guards ] - we never will heal. AND no matter what happened bad to me…no matter if I get an apology -.It remains my individual responsibility, to heal. No one ELSE has that power or responsibility.

AND that is the message I fail to see from this group. I see only the “Place the Blame” and not even equally ] . You cant tell me that parishioners didn’t know of the abuses going on at Magdeline laundries - are they not the body of the Church? Why aren’t they or the Irish Government being called for their complicity, equally?

Does it seem, without calling ALL accountable, …that this group has an agenda to incite - not heal? I believe so.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hi, Kimmielittle,

Excellent:thumbsup:

Placing the blame seems to be all consuming… and distracting from the process of healing.

God bless

Hiyas

Thank you.
You can call me kimmie, if you wish

God Blesses you too

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Hopemercy,

Reading your post was such a very sad experience for me. I can only guess at your own personal suffering and that of all in Ireland.

Please do not give up Hope in the True Faith. I can not explain the actions of those who took advantage of defenseless children - and still less able to explain why their Bishops did not move to protect these victims. There is a God Who will not only not be mocked but is Totally Just.

Join us in praying for our Church.

God bless

May I, from Ireland, make a few points, please? And living here makes a great difference to how you see these issues, believe me on that.

It is hard from anywhere else to understand the totality of the Church’s despotic rule over Irish society in these centuries.

They had total control of all education, all health care, all punitive institutions eg industrial schools. “The priest” was the ultimate authority in everyone;s life… Even ten years ago, when an old lady neighbour fell downstairs, her daughter called the priest before anyone else.

So when -and the did - parents etc complained, they were not believed; that is on record many times in the various reports.

The power the Church has had here was in the police force, in medical care , in the courts. It was total.

NB What is known as the “Canadian Holocaust” was inflicted by all the main churches; RC, Anglican, United free church; ask google for Kevin Annett.

What has happened here is worse as a nation turned against its own most vulnerable. Watch youtube “sex in a cold climate”… it is total truth

There is utter disgust re the situation re the bishops here now. And rightly. Whatever the theories are on this forum the cold fact is that abuse was not only carried out systmatically but was condoned and covered up.

And this action has affirmed this. It s the death knell for many here of true faith. And why stil what someone has called “bitterness.” ? because it is the Vatican who are stretching it out longer and longer and longer now. To condone more.

Can we not see this simply as what it is?

This is why the religious orders and the priesthood are dying here now; God is not mocked, thankfully.

Every time the Vatican refuses to take action against these prelates? More leave the Church from all walks of life and all age groups; and many lose touch with any faith, or turn to Buddhism etc.

That is the burden the vatican must now shoulder.

This action also sees the end of any hope of renewal here in Ireland.

 

[A_Fortiori_33]

Please believe our prayers are with you. there is such a schism between those who know what was going on and those who lived through the ordeal. There is also the the group who insist that nothing was going on. The authority of the church is in question and must be protected no mattter what. If we can get to the whole truth, maybe we can heal. If the truth only comes out once every two years maybe not.

 

[josie_L]

Agreed.

The constant attempts to compare the Church’s abuse scandals to abusive teachers is highly offensive. Archbishop Dolan was just doing it again on Raymond Arroyo’s Aug. 6th show.

When pedophilia/ephebophilia is exposed within the self-professed moral authority of the world (the Catholic Church) it rightly causes more scandal than when it takes place anywhere else in the world.

Whenever I read of a teacher accused of abuse, that teacher is removed immediately from the classroom and the police are notified. If it is found that the teacher is guilty, s/he is fired immediately and the authorities take over. The teacher is not transferred from school to school, district to district. S/he is not protected and defended by scores of other teachers. In fact, many times it is a fellow teacher who notices something fishy and notifies the Principal.

Actually that isn’t necessarily true, that is, there are many cases of pedophilia/ ephebophia that are not reported due to the protection of teachers through unions (this is what is happening or has happened in NY if memory serves).

New York Post Exposes High Rate Of Teacher/Student Molestations

In a story not widely publicized in the mainstream press, the New York Post published a story in its July 30, 2001 edition about the secret epidemic of homosexual child abuse cases that go unreported in New York City’s public schools.

The report, “Secret Shame Of Our Schools: Sexual Abuse Of Students Runs Rampant,” by Douglas Montero, is the result of an analysis of 117 cases of sexual abuse between January 1999 and June 2001. Sixty percent of those accused of sexual abuse were transferred to desk jobs inside the school district. Forty percent of those transferred suspects were repeat sex offenders.

The report noted that out of the 117 cases, 212 children were victims. In 45% of the cases, the sex offender attacked more than one student. In nearly 16% of the cases, school officials delayed or tried to cover up the sexual molestations.

traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

“In 2007, the AP did a major report on this subject. It concluded that child sexual abuse in the public schools was ‘a widespread problem,’ saying there was ‘a deeply entrenched resistance toward recognizing and fighting abuse.’ Moreover, offending teachers are moved from one school district to another, so often that they are called ‘mobile molesters.’

“Two years earlier, author and educator John Seryak concluded that ‘The problem in education dwarfs the Catholic Church problem.’ And a year earlier, Dr. Charol Shakeshaft, the nation’s leading authority on the issue, estimated that ‘the physical abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse of priests.’ So common is the transfer of offending teachers that it is called ‘passing the trash.’

academia.org/public-school-pedophiles-revisited/

This was by far the worst because it just proves how hypocritical the New York Times (and how unworthy a source it actually is):

Pedophiles don’t belong in classroom - absurdity of New York Times defending the right of North American Man/Boy Love Association, NAMBLA, head Peter Melzer to remain a public school teacher - Column

Well, the Times editors have just wrestled with a moral issue of some significance: Should the Board of Education fire Peter Melzer, a physics teacher at the Bronx High School of Science? No, Melzer is not a racist. He is an open and avowed pedophile and is a leader of the North American Man/Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA. The organization’s magazine, which Melzer edits, has included articles on how to seduce young boys.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n46_v9/ai_14723385/

This too is an interesting article: “Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In School? NRO: Why Haven’t Teachers Received Same Scrutiny As Catholic Priests?”

cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/24/opinion/main1933687.shtml

This sure tells me where the New York School system’s priorities lie:

New York Teacher Fired for Prayer in Classroom 6/29/1998

A New York public school teacher was recently fired when she dared to try and comfort a grieving child with a prayer and words of hope. Meanwhile, when the New York City school system learned that one of their tenured teachers is a member of a national pedophile organization, he was merely reassigned and given a gentle rebuke.

Mildred Rosario was a public school teacher in the New York City school system and is a Christian. When one of her 11-year-old students shared that her friend had recently drowned, Rosario wanted to comfort her.

Rosario told the child that her friend was now in heaven and that Jesus, our Savior, came to ”save all the human race.“ Rosario then prayed with the student. She told the class if they did not wish to participate they were free to read a book or play on the computer.

The next day, Rosario was removed from her classroom. Four days later, on June 12, she was fired. One of her students was a Jehovah’s Witness whose family complained to school authorities. The authorities said she was fired because she refused to promise never to pray in the classroom again.

This firing is an outrage -—a blatant violation of religious liberty, especially considering the fact that the same school system gave another teacher only a slap on the wrist when it learned he was a member of the North American Man/Boy Love Association, a pedophile advocacy group. cwfa.org/articles/1242/CWA/freedom/index.htm

I think I proved my point.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

What point are you trying to prove?