Swearing in Creative Writing

[Hoosier_Daddy]

You know how I took care of that once? My husband and I were at Taco Bell, and the guy behind us in line was using the F-word at least twice in every sentence. I waited for my husband to do something, but he wouldn’t. So finally I turned around and said, “Excuse me, sir. I’m sure you’re far too much of a gentleman to use language like that in front of a lady.”

Well, he blushed beet red and mumbled an apology.

I probably would have done the same. When I hear public profanity then I get my dander up because I usually have small children with me. I think it is important to note that while swearing us probably morally neutral most times, it certainly can be either over used or used at completely inappropriate times. A well placed bomb can have devastating effects. And the nuclear option should be saved for times that it is needed. Which almost are never in line at a store checkout.

I learned to play poker with priests when I was discerning the priesthood in college. Let me tell you that if I took the pot, I usually learned some colorful phrases that to this day make me laugh a little…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Goodness, it almost sounds like you’re trying to defend the use of foul language.

The standard I use is “Is this something I would say in front of Mary, the Mother of God?” If it isn’t, I won’t use the word.

I can accept an argument based on propriety and common sense but for the love of God (literally), can everyone stop playing the WWJD card?

It’s the worst, cliched, and nonsensical ‘response’ you can make as a Christian (to the point that I think I’m going to rant about this in another thread).

For one thing, neither Jesus nor Mary spoke English.

Or French.

Or Chinese.

Or Swahili.

Or Filipino.

Or Italian.

Or Korean.

Or Arabic.

Or Spanish.

Or Japanese.

Or Irish.

Or Elvish.

Or Klingon.

I can spout a number of profanities in three of the above languages and I doubt even half of you would get offended.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I can accept an argument based on propriety and common sense but for the love of God (literally), can everyone stop playing the WWJD card?

It’s the worst, cliched, and nonsensical ‘response’ you can make as a Christian (to the point that I think I’m going to rant about this in another thread).

For one thing, neither Jesus nor Mary spoke English.

Or French.

Or Chinese.

Or Swahili.

Or Filipino.

Or Italian.

Or Korean.

Or Arabic.

Or Spanish.

Or Japanese.

Or Irish.

Or Elvish.

Or Klingon.

I can spout a number of profanities in three of the above languages and I doubt even half of you would get offended.

I think you’re missing the point. God knows quite well what we’re saying if we spout obscenities, regardless of the language.

It is He who is primarily offended,

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I think you’re missing the point. God knows quite well what we’re saying if we spout obscenities, regardless of the language.

It is He who is primarily offended,

God cares if I say poo poo or the s word?
I must have missed that part…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

No

Ha! Now you are either not introspective enough or flat out pulling my leg. The standard of the Virgin Mary that you invoked probably wouldn’t hold up to the archive of your CAF posts much less the body of writing and speaking you do…

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Ha! Now you are either not introspective enough or flat out pulling my leg. The standard of the Virgin Mary that you invoked probably wouldn’t hold up to the archive of your CAF posts much less the body of writing and speaking you do… That is why it is silly to use your standard.?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I think you’re missing the point. God knows quite well what we’re saying if we spout obscenities, regardless of the language.

It is He who is primarily offended,

Look as a graduate of a language major, I know that there is a theoretical ‘space’ where the exact form of a word goes to a concept that is more universal.

However, that’s all the more reason why I think your use of the WWJD card is absurd. So God takes offense when I say the FY-word after winning a hard match? I guess the spirit behind Christian war cries in the past have offended God as much as those who holler ‘profanities’ at online game opponents.

 

[ChurchSuffering]

Swear words are something that humans have come up with and put the label of “bad” on.
To God it would just be another word. Not that he is limited with out language anyway.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Ha! Now you are either not introspective enough or flat out pulling my leg. The standard of the Virgin Mary that you invoked probably wouldn’t hold up to the archive of your CAF posts much less the body of writing and speaking you do…

I’m interested in knowing how you know what words I use when I speak.

And what CAF post have I ever had that had obscenities in it?

P.S. I won’t be able to be here for a while. I’m in the middle of a cancer scare. More testing to be done today. Prayers appreciated.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I’m interested in knowing how you know what words I use when I speak.

And what CAF post have I ever had that had obscenities in it?

P.S. I won’t be able to be here for a while. I’m in the middle of a cancer scare. More testing to be done today. Prayers appreciated.

I don’t know how you talk in real life. But I know that I have never met anyone who has or meets the ridiculous standard you tried to slip into the thread. You could just back off it but instead you double down. I’m not interested in the dead end road of trying to disprove your assertion, but I think honesty and introspection would leave you agreeing with me. To be honest I have not even seen or recall any other posts you have made on CAF, but I’m betting the virgin Mary does not approve of every single sentence and word choice you have. Nor do I think that is the standard. Many saints have used pretty salty language in their time. I’m not sure The Blessed Mother was keen on Aquinas or even Paul’s word choices sometimes. Saints who were in war, who were in the heat of battle probably used appropriate language for the time.

And again, each person’s list would be different wouldn’t it? Perhaps I don’t want you saying the world “stupid” perhaps in my family that is “profane” but how do you have a standard of what is profane and what is not across cultures languages and situations?

Now onto that horrible ending of your post.

CAF is a nice place for us to engage in a discussion of the faith. to debate life. And it is also a place where we develop interactions and connections with other real people. Not just words on a keyboard in the middle of a debate. But honest to goodness people who are living life in good and bad right now. I will indeed pray and pray hard for you. And who really cares about the silly things we post about here except when it is serious? And yours is serious. I will pray for you and hope that God helps you though a difficult time.

 

[Kay_Cee]

I don’t know how you talk in real life. But I know that I have never met anyone who has or meets the ridiculous standard you tried to slip into the thread. You could just back off it but instead you double down. I’m not interested in the dead end road of trying to disprove your assertion, but I think honesty and introspection would leave you agreeing with me. To be honest I have not even seen or recall any other posts you have made on CAF, but I’m betting the virgin Mary does not approve of every single sentence and word choice you have. Nor do I think that is the standard. Many saints have used pretty salty language in their time. I’m not sure The Blessed Mother was keen on Aquinas or even Paul’s word choices sometimes. Saints who were in war, who were in the heat of battle probably used appropriate language for the time.

And again, each person’s list would be different wouldn’t it? Perhaps I don’t want you saying the world “stupid” perhaps in my family that is “profane” but how do you have a standard of what is profane and what is not across cultures languages and situations?

Now onto that horrible ending of your post.

CAF is a nice place for us to engage in a discussion of the faith. to debate life. And it is also a place where we develop interactions and connections with other real people. Not just words on a keyboard in the middle of a debate. But honest to goodness people who are living life in good and bad right now. I will indeed pray and pray hard for you. And who really cares about the silly things we post about here except when it is serious? And yours is serious. I will pray for you and hope that God helps you though a difficult time.

It sounds like you think I’ve made a far bigger claim than I did.

I didn’t say the Virgin Mary would approve of absolutely everything I have ever said (or done, for that matter. I am a sinner.)

I was talking about not using obscenities. I define an obscenity as a blasphemy against God, and/or a derogatory term for sex, a body part, or anything produced by the body.

I don’t use such words in my speech, nor in my writing. This includes the F word, the S word, and other such words. Yes, maybe somebody else has a different list, and I’m in no position to judge another person.

But I think you agree that all of us should take care in what we say and in what we write. After all, Jesus did say “You serpent’s brood, how can you say anything good out of your evil hearts? For a man’s words depend on what fills his heart. A good man gives out good—from the goodness stored in his heart; a bad man gives out evil—from his store of evil. I tell you that men will have to answer at the day of judgment for every careless word they utter—for it is your words that will acquit you, and your words that will condemn you.” (Matthew 12:34-37)

If we have to account for even careless words, I shudder to think about having to account for calculated ones.

I’ve enjoyed our discussion, but I’m going to end the conversation here. I think we’ve said just about everything that needs to be said.

Thank you for the prayers. I’m hoping for good news today, but even if it isn’t, I hope to resign myself to God’s will.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It sounds like you think I’ve made a far bigger claim than I did.

I didn’t say the Virgin Mary would approve of absolutely everything I have ever said (or done, for that matter. I am a sinner.)

I was talking about not using obscenities. I define an obscenity as a blasphemy against God, and/or a derogatory term for sex, a body part, or anything produced by the body.

I don’t use such words in my speech, nor in my writing. This includes the F word, the S word, and other such words. Yes, maybe somebody else has a different list, and I’m in no position to judge another person.

But I think you agree that all of us should take care in what we say and in what we write. After all, Jesus did say “You serpent’s brood, how can you say anything good out of your evil hearts? For a man’s words depend on what fills his heart. A good man gives out good—from the goodness stored in his heart; a bad man gives out evil—from his store of evil. I tell you that men will have to answer at the day of judgment for every careless word they utter—for it is your words that will acquit you, and your words that will condemn you.” (Matthew 12:34-37)

If we have to account for even careless words, I shudder to think about having to account for calculated ones.

I’ve enjoyed our discussion, but I’m going to end the conversation here. I think we’ve said just about everything that needs to be said.

Thank you for the prayers. I’m hoping for good news today, but even if it isn’t, I hope to resign myself to God’s will.

It sounds like you think I’ve made a far bigger claim than I did.

I didn’t say the Virgin Mary would approve of absolutely everything I have ever said (or done, for that matter. I am a sinner.)

ok. I’ll just use your own words.

The standard I use is “Is this something I would say in front of Mary, the Mother of God?” If it isn’t, I won’t use the word

I also think it odd that you use the Virgin Mary and not God himself. The Virgin is not the one who will judge your words. But perhaps it is too cliche to use WWJD like a previous poster said.

I was talking about not using obscenities. I define an obscenity as a blasphemy against God, and/or a derogatory term for sex, a body part, or anything produced by the body.

So, your moral standard is something that could be different for anyone? Where do you get to decide what is an obscenity or not? What happens when I think “stupid” is offensive? have you ever used that word?

I don’t use such words in my speech, nor in my writing. This includes the F word, the S word, and other such words. Yes, maybe somebody else has a different list, and I’m in no position to judge another person.

Words are literally symbols put together to convey a meaning. Saying F word is conveying the message of actually typing out the word! You are making a connection with your readers that just “spells” the words differently. Those of us who know what you mean by F word are making the connection in our heads what that word means. Does typing “F word” fit your assertion of your standard?

You definitely have bigger fish to fry right now. And while I disagree with you and even find your judgementalism on this subject rather hypocritical, I cannot help but want to hug you and pray with you. Please, let us know how things go. Not just for the sake of idle curiosity but also because I and others will pray for you. My kids will pray for you. Cancer is scary. You can kick it’s (insert body part here) hopefully you wont have to worry about it. Next adoration we go to, you will be a large part of it.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Does anyone remember Tim Hawkins list of Christian Swear words?

Some of my favorites.

Son of a motherless goat.
Bulscheveck (that was close)
Shut the front door!
Katy Perry’s Ghost!
Jackwaggon!
fiddle faddle
h e double hockey sticks
son of a nutcracker
rassa frassa rassa frassa rassa
my lanta.

 

[edwest2]

As Catholic writers, we need standards. We will be called to account. No, no one is perfect but allowing in a little bad is not a good idea.

Best,
Ed

 

[PromisesTrue21]

I would say that it’s good to use it sparingly (like many other people replying and to beat around the bush, get the point across without actually writing out the word/s and without dialogue. Also, I don’t know what kind of story you’re writing exactly (it sounds like it’s set on Earth, current time but I don’t know, haha). Anyway, I’m reading a fantasy series right now and when ever the characters cuss, it’s not with any words we would consider bad. They say “blood and ashes,” in place of words we would normally use. If you ever write a story like that, where you have a bit more freedom with culture and language in your story, this may be even a fun way to set a mood in the scene.

 

[iamcatholic100]

I know this is an old thread. I wanted to post something when it was active, but never got the chance. So, its better now than never.

Personally, I don’t like expletives. But, after reading many posts on this forum regarding this topic, I would like to add my 2 cents

Using expletives in themselves isn’t always immoral. For instance, St. Thomas More peppered his rebuke to Martin Luther with s-words, because that word was a common word used during his time until it became taboo a hundred years later (though it is important to realize that St. Thomas More didn’t use those words directly, since he was writing under a pseudonym and was writing under the command of King Henry the 8th, whom Martin Luther wasn’t too fond of). Also, in the original Italian, Saint Francis of Assisi told a brother to use a scatological term in response to a supposed vision that he saw in Little Flowers of Saint Francis. Third, though I haven’t read a lot of his blog posts, Patheos blogger Bad Catholic quoted rap verses in blog about rap music, some of which contained f-words and some racial slurs. So, I think that whenever one is writing something, regardless of whether it is fiction or or nonfiction, if you want to write something that is genuine, authentic, and real, you probably need to include things that are a little tough to swallow, including foul language. That’s what being a good writer, journalist or story teller is all about. And don’t fall into the nonsense from secularists, and many believers, who stereotype Catholics and Christians as people who only use squeaky clean language all the time. That’s not real life!!!

On the other hand, you shouldn’t overdo it or just use it for shock value. You should only use it as part of character development, or when a character, or yourself, is trying to express strong emotions or when trying to reference something very disturbing or truthful, or when trying to respond to people who did unjust things to to you. As long as its done in a non offensive manner and not involving God’s name being used in vain, I don’t see any problem in using it.

But of course, you have every right to disagree with me, and I will respect that.

Just wanted to give my :twocents:

 

[Joe_5859]

I know this is an old thread. I wanted to post something when it was active, but never got the chance. So, its better now than never.

Personally, I don’t like expletives. But, after reading many posts on this forum regarding this topic, I would like to add my 2 cents

Using expletives in themselves isn’t always immoral. For instance, St. Thomas More peppered his rebuke to Martin Luther with s-words, because that word was a common word used during his time until it became taboo a hundred years later (though it is important to realize that St. Thomas More didn’t use those words directly, since he was writing under a pseudonym and was writing under the command of King Henry the 8th, whom Martin Luther wasn’t too fond of). Also, in the original Italian, Saint Francis of Assisi told a brother to use a scatological term in response to a supposed vision that he saw in Little Flowers of Saint Francis. Third, though I haven’t read a lot of his blog posts, Patheos blogger Bad Catholic quoted rap verses in blog about rap music, some of which contained f-words and some racial slurs. So, I think that whenever one is writing something, regardless of whether it is fiction or or nonfiction, if you want to write something that is genuine, authentic, and real, you probably need to include things that are a little tough to swallow, including foul language. That’s what being a good writer, journalist or story teller is all about. And don’t fall into the nonsense from secularists, and many believers, who stereotype Catholics and Christians as people who only use squeaky clean language all the time. That’s not real life!!!

On the other hand, you shouldn’t overdo it or just use it for shock value. You should only use it as part of character development, or when a character, or yourself, is trying to express strong emotions or when trying to reference something very disturbing or truthful, or when trying to respond to people who did unjust things to to you. As long as its done in a non offensive manner and not involving God’s name being used in vain, I don’t see any problem in using it.

But of course, you have every right to disagree with me, and I will respect that.

Just wanted to give my :twocents:

Thanks for sharing, even if you are late to the party.

I don’t necessarily disagree about it not being immoral (hey, that’s four negatives in one sentence ). For me, though, I have never quite understood the argument that using foul language lends to authenticity. Maybe it’s just because I’m averse to using the words myself in everyday speech, but I have never been writing something such that I felt that using an expletive was the only (or even the best) word choice. Nor have I thought while watching a movie or reading a book that it would really be more authentic if there was some profanity peppered in. That could just be me, though.

 

[edwest2]

From another poster who provided it:

“But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening?” [James 3:8-11]

---

When I was growing up, I was told not to use bad words, and they remain bad. I’m going over a manuscript right now for publication and I’m marking and cutting out profanity and inappropriate and gratuitous situations as they regard the dignity of the human person.

Ed

 

[truetofaith]

Thanks for sharing, even if you are late to the party.

I don’t necessarily disagree about it not being immoral (hey, that’s four negatives in one sentence ). For me, though, I have never quite understood the argument that using foul language lends to authenticity. Maybe it’s just because I’m averse to using the words myself in everyday speech, but I have never been writing something such that I felt that using an expletive was the only (or even the best) word choice. Nor have I thought while watching a movie or reading a book that it would really be more authentic if there was some profanity peppered in. That could just be me, though.

I used to think using obscenities in a movie made the characters sound more tough or cool.
I’m a big fan of Miami Vice & looking at the old episodes Crockett & Tubbs never cursed and no TV characters were more cool or tough than they were…so those words are not needed today, either!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I used to think using obscenities in a movie made the characters sound more tough or cool.
I’m a big fan of Miami Vice & looking at the old episodes Crockett & Tubbs never cursed and no TV characters were more cool or tough than they were…so those words are not needed today, either!

The Career of Samuel L Jackson would disagree.

And there would be a huge amount of snakes on planes. Not to mention Mr Wallace would not be able to collect his money ever…