Sweatshops

[PrayingDuck]

Obviously, it’s going to be very very difficult to buy only clothing that is 100% responsibly made without growing and spinning the cotton myself. So what is our obligation to avoid sweatshop-made clothing? I feel like the issue is a bit complicated. And–this might be a bit of vanity–often, a lot of the “responsible” clothes are simply unflattering and uncomfortable. For example, I have a certain brand of jeans that I wear that fit me beautifully and are extremely comfortable, and I haven’t found any others that I like as much. I pretty much own a couple pairs of those jeans and that’s what I wear. However, the company has been found to be somewhat unethical in the past. Do I continue to buy my favorite jeans when they wear out, or search and hope to find a better brand? Or another example–many sportswear companies have been accused of using sweatshop labor. But when you need a really good pair of running shoes that are comfortable and well-designed, where else are you supposed to go? It’s a bit confusing.

 

[po18guy]

The alternative is to boycott the third world altogether and put many folks who need the money they make out of work completely. If it is difficult to feed a family on low wages, how is that improved by eliminating those wages altogether? I cannot see the justice in that. As well, it is a trend in the western world to impose its standards of wages, benefits and living conditions upon societies which are less developed and have never shared our lofty standards. The rest of the world seeks work, and mutually agreed-upon work is a benefit to both parties.

For example, I have travelled to El Salvador numerous times over the decades and I note that workers line up each morning for work at each factory, out of the simple need and desire to work. That they volunteer to work for wages, and under expectations that we might not approve of does not remove the dignity from their work. As well, all such work is voluntary and competitive. Most of the factories are located near the airport and are of more modern, steel construction which have been imported from first or second world nations. Thus, there is far less chance of a fire sweeping the facility and endangering the workers.

Consider: It is mostly in the US and western Europe where substantial segments of the able-bodied population are paid by the government not to work. Since dignity is tied to a person’s intrinsic value, as well as their personal accomplishments, there is potential in such programs for injustice regarding that person’s self-esteem and personal development.

In any event, each nation that has “sweatshops” also has a functioning government of some sort that answers to the people at some level. Many of these nations impose harsh penalites, often death, for busniess owners whose negligence has resulted in worker death.

Bottom line: People who voluntarily agree to work in return for wages, and those who hire them both receive benefit from that labor, or the labor would not be solicited or provided. There remains competition for those basic jobs, and some are not entirely entry-level. As my wife just said, if they were paid $10/hour, her comfortably middle-class sister would quit her job at a travel agency and go to work in the “sweatshops”! From our US or European perspective, it may look questionable but, from theirs, it looks much more rewarding.

 

[Starrsmother]

Obviously, it’s going to be very very difficult to buy only clothing that is 100% responsibly made without growing and spinning the cotton myself. So what is our obligation to avoid sweatshop-made clothing? I feel like the issue is a bit complicated. And–this might be a bit of vanity–often, a lot of the “responsible” clothes are simply unflattering and uncomfortable. For example, I have a certain brand of jeans that I wear that fit me beautifully and are extremely comfortable, and I haven’t found any others that I like as much. I pretty much own a couple pairs of those jeans and that’s what I wear. However, the company has been found to be somewhat unethical in the past. Do I continue to buy my favorite jeans when they wear out, or search and hope to find a better brand? Or another example–many sportswear companies have been accused of using sweatshop labor. But when you need a really good pair of running shoes that are comfortable and well-designed, where else are you supposed to go? It’s a bit confusing.

I’m not an apologist or theologian but I agree that black balling clothes that are made in a sweat shop in a 3rd world country defeats the purpose. It hurts the very poor—and I can’t see how it helps much of anyone. It’s one of those things that is politically correct to do— as it assuages our consciences—but unless we can find a way to individually provide financial support for each and every worker in these shops, we might be better to back away. In our minds, we judge third world countries and sweat shops based on our own lives, lifestyles and how we raise our somewhat pampered little off-spring in a developed country, By our standards, which are NOT shared by many, many folks in say China or Mexico—just to name two places—sweat shops are heinous indeed. However, in the countries where they do exist, the people who work in these sweat shops depend on what they are paid there to even eat! Everyone in the family is expected to contribute, including young kids! They feel no shame in it–they feel lucky to have any work to keep their soul and body together! If we blackball the products they make out of outrage about working conditions or any PC reason, all we succeed in doing is to possibly put the sweat shop out of business and cause the poor souls who depend on working for them to maybe even die of hunger.

I’m not sure what the real “right answer” is. It’s a terrible thing thinking of these poor brothers and sisters–and particularly the little children who are in involved having to work for so little and under such terrible conditions But is watching them jobless and starving better? I don’t have the answer–though I do understand the moral issue in place.

You know, if we could look at the time when our grandparents and great grandparents lived, we might understand better. My parents were old by any standards when my sister and I were born. My mom was in her late 30’s and my Dad was 50 when I (the elder kid) was born. Dad especially used to tell me very matter-of-factly that kids were expected to work and help support the family in his day.It wasn’t a punishment and nobody ever thought of it as child abuse. It was just life as it was lived in the early 1900’s and before. Daddy was born in 1901.When he described some of the jobs he had to do even as young as 5 or 6–and both in and out of his home–it sort of screamed “Sweatshop!” to me. To my Dad though and to his 11 siblings and his parents, it was just a part of real life unless your last name was Rockerfeller. Sweat shops always seem to exist in underdeveloped countries where the cost of living (if you call how they get by “living” ). When the country develops further, they seem to go away.

Yes, I do think big business in all the developed countries and the USA take HUGE advantage of these people–for reason of profit and because they can. If a corporation could be banished to hell, I kinda think some of these corporations would be frying for eternity. But, I’d bet that most of those poor who work in sweat shops need their job even more than our outrage, and fare than most people in the USA who work menial jobs but under far better conditions for a guaranteed minimum wage.

I think if we become socially active on the subject of sweat shops, we should really think it through. The best answer would be to find a way to make all big corporations grow some kind of heart and compassion—but how would we go about that? I sure am not smart enough to figure the answer to that one. SIGH…

 

[thistle]

Obviously, it’s going to be very very difficult to buy only clothing that is 100% responsibly made without growing and spinning the cotton myself. So what is our obligation to avoid sweatshop-made clothing? I feel like the issue is a bit complicated. And–this might be a bit of vanity–often, a lot of the “responsible” clothes are simply unflattering and uncomfortable. For example, I have a certain brand of jeans that I wear that fit me beautifully and are extremely comfortable, and I haven’t found any others that I like as much. I pretty much own a couple pairs of those jeans and that’s what I wear. However, the company has been found to be somewhat unethical in the past. Do I continue to buy my favorite jeans when they wear out, or search and hope to find a better brand? Or another example–many sportswear companies have been accused of using sweatshop labor. But when you need a really good pair of running shoes that are comfortable and well-designed, where else are you supposed to go? It’s a bit confusing.

If we are to avoid wearing, drinking, eating products of companies who contradict Church teaching we would all be sitting in a cave, naked, hungry and thirsty just waiting to die.

 

[JanetF]

we live in a global economy, whether we like it or not. By choosing to only purchase items made in our own country, we short circuit the free market and allow mediocre companies to sustain their mediocrity instead of getting better. Lack of competition breeds inferior products. I refuse to reward manufacturers of substandard products with my business just because they happen to make them here. If the American product is the best product among many made all over the world, and the value is reflected in the price, then I will purchase American. When looking for a new car, I check Ford, Honda and Toyota. Whoever gives me the best value for my money will get my money.

 

[moriah]

There is no method of being an ethical consumer in this society. All corporations are corrupted by greed and act accordingly. To be expected to only purchase items produced in accordance to Church teaching would be ludicrous. A better option, I think, would be to become politically active and campaign for laws protecting labourers in undeveloped nations. This may not be your calling but if this issue is particularly bothersome to you, maybe it is.

 

[Starrsmother]

There is no method of being an ethical consumer in this society. All corporations are corrupted by greed and act accordingly. To be expected to only purchase items produced in accordance to Church teaching would be ludicrous. A better option, I think, would be to become politically active and campaign for laws protecting labourers in undeveloped nations. This may not be your calling but if this issue is particularly bothersome to you, maybe it is.

I agree with you in philosophy–but the problem is that the countries with the poorest human rights records seem to have the biggest liars governing them. To you or me, we would know what a sweatshop is and it wouldn’t take a law to inform us that it’s wrong to run one. To many dictators of these countries where such things are prevalent however,it’s exactly the opposite–you can make any law you want–but they’d never recognize it as applying to them or the businesses and people they govern. (sigh…)

 

[JRJOHNSON]

With what people say are sweatshops-clothes made in 3d world nations. Truth is that these companies provide jobs there for people to make clothes and so on. Yes, there must be safer work conditions as we saw earlier this year what happened in Bangladesh.

But the work conditions are not as bad as media says. They pay the wages according to what standard of living is in those nations. In India, a Computer Programer makes $16,000 a year and that is a good standard of living. Things in 3d World nations are cheaper than they are in USA. USA has outsourced manufacturing jobs to Mexico for years, where GM, Chrysler and Ford cars are made with Mexican labor and with lower wages. Again, cost of living is less in Mexico, India and Bangladesh compared to USA.

 

[didymus]

I’m of two minds on this one.
My grandfather and great-uncle left the family farm to work in a factory in the 1920s, clearly considered it an improvement over farm life. It may not have been a sweatshop but by today’s it would be outsourced to the third world. But, the job did represent upward mobility.

The same may be the case in other countries where it’s actually subsistence farming vs. sweatshops.
I suspect developing economies necessarily have to go thru the “satanic mills” stage on the way to modern capitalism with labor laws, safety regulations &c.

 

[Starrsmother]

I’m of two minds on this one.
My grandfather and great-uncle left the family farm to work in a factory in the 1920s, clearly considered it an improvement over farm life. It may not have been a sweatshop but by today’s it would be outsourced to the third world. But, the job did represent upward mobility.

The same may be the case in other countries where it’s actually subsistence farming vs. sweatshops.
I suspect developing economies necessarily have to go thru the “satanic mills” stage on the way to modern capitalism with labor laws, safety regulations &c.

Somewhere on this thread I posted much the same thing. My grandfather immigrated here in the early 1900’s. My Dad (born in 1901) was one of something like 12 kids and the family settled in Oklahoma after the land run and purchased farm land. When he was alive, my dad used to tell me stories of his life as a kid. He never seemed to feel abused or that he had been mistreated–even though my grandpa apparently used a “blacksnake” (a type of whip) to punish recalcitrant kids. But he worked! Chores must be done before school. When he got to school–and they took a horse and buggy–it was my dad’s job when he too started school-- and as the youngest at the time-- to tether the horse in the stable at the school, and provide it with feed and water for the day–then to re-harness etc before the kids went home. Dad was about 6 years old then as I later realized. AND he got kicked in the head by the horse once–was unconscious for several days–and never had a huge love for horses as more than a necessary evil from the past all the time I was growing up–though I desperately wanted one! LOL! Summer vacations? Ha! Ha! That was the growing season and also when they bought and sold and butchered animals and hunted and canned and put up food for the winter–and much more. They literally worked from dawn to dusk–and most everyone else did the same. The school year began after harvest–and let out earlier–before spring planting as the kids all had to help–so even their school year was shorter than now.

We forget that in less developed countries, that they are now where America was 100 years ago or more–and hopefully in 100 years they will at least be where we are now. In those families, they don’t think “sweatshop” they think in terms of every family member contributing so that the family as a whole survives. Putting them out of business is philosophically admirable but in real life will literally cause people to starve to death.

 

[Sereta]

You could always give additional money to charity to the people in these circumstances.
Though even with choosing charities you need to be cautious where the money is going to.

 

[SamH]

Obviously, it’s going to be very very difficult to buy only clothing that is 100% responsibly made without growing and spinning the cotton myself. So what is our obligation to avoid sweatshop-made clothing? I feel like the issue is a bit complicated. And–this might be a bit of vanity–often, a lot of the “responsible” clothes are simply unflattering and uncomfortable. For example, I have a certain brand of jeans that I wear that fit me beautifully and are extremely comfortable, and I haven’t found any others that I like as much. I pretty much own a couple pairs of those jeans and that’s what I wear. However, the company has been found to be somewhat unethical in the past. Do I continue to buy my favorite jeans when they wear out, or search and hope to find a better brand? Or another example–many sportswear companies have been accused of using sweatshop labor. But when you need a really good pair of running shoes that are comfortable and well-designed, where else are you supposed to go? It’s a bit confusing.

What do you think will happen to those people when their jobs are gone?