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Kei
Guest
One of the great things about Catholicism is that if a priest wants to do this, we actually have authorities and rubrics that sorta keep them from doing it.
Swedish church pushes for neutral gender reference to Jesus
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Kei
Guest
Yes indeed. I have heard of some terrible abuses. Thankfully we have authorities that can and should (though who knows how well they do this) stop this sort of thing.
For instance, I’ve heard of instead of calling the Father the Father, saying the Maker of Jesus, even though we have a creed that specifically says that Jesus is “Begotten, not made”.
Hopefully most of that is over now that the 60s and 70s are long behind us.
For instance, I’ve heard of instead of calling the Father the Father, saying the Maker of Jesus, even though we have a creed that specifically says that Jesus is “Begotten, not made”.
Hopefully most of that is over now that the 60s and 70s are long behind us.
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ATraveller
Guest
Interpretations may vary but actions should be the same.
I apologize for not seeing the last paragraph.
I could delete this but I spent a lot of time on organizing it. I hope others may find it helpful to understand some of things happening in the world of Protestantism.
Protestantism is unfortunately splintered into tens of thousands of denominations but there is a sharp dividing line between Mainline and ‘Evangelical’ and a reorganization is taking place in this framework. We’ve seen congregations in Mainline Presbyterian Church USA voting to join with the evangelical PCA over social issues and the ACNA split from the Episcopal and Anglican Churches in the US and Canada. In the US, there’s a third designation for Protestantism, Black Protestant. And you can even start seeing them being divided between Mainline and ‘Evangelical’
‘Evangelical’ is trickier because it crosses denominations. Evangelicalism is identified with ‘non-denominational’ churches but it can be found in Methodism, Presbyterianism and even in the Anglican Communion (it’s remarkable how different one parish is from another, someone should call in a certain member
). But the markers are an emphasis on the Bible as the Word of God, personal conversion (‘do you have a relationship with Jesus?’, ‘have you repented?’), a focus on penal substitution (‘Christ died on the Cross for your sins’) and activism (pro-life and religious freedoms today, in the past anti-slavery activities among many but unfortunately not all).
I apologize for not seeing the last paragraph.
I could delete this but I spent a lot of time on organizing it. I hope others may find it helpful to understand some of things happening in the world of Protestantism.
That’s true. The LCMS is considered evangelical (and there are likely disputes over the designation) but they are categorized as such simply by not deviating from Christian doctrine. The ELCA is Mainline despite having the word ‘Evangelical’. The same can be said for the Church of Sweden.
Protestantism is unfortunately splintered into tens of thousands of denominations but there is a sharp dividing line between Mainline and ‘Evangelical’ and a reorganization is taking place in this framework. We’ve seen congregations in Mainline Presbyterian Church USA voting to join with the evangelical PCA over social issues and the ACNA split from the Episcopal and Anglican Churches in the US and Canada. In the US, there’s a third designation for Protestantism, Black Protestant. And you can even start seeing them being divided between Mainline and ‘Evangelical’
No central authority but Lutherans have confessional statements that define Lutheranism. The interesting thing to point out is the LCMS doesn’t allow ELCA members (or any other denominations except for a few confessing Lutheran ones) to partake in the Lord’s Supper in their parishes but the ELCA as far as I’m aware of practises ‘open communion’.
‘Evangelical’ is trickier because it crosses denominations. Evangelicalism is identified with ‘non-denominational’ churches but it can be found in Methodism, Presbyterianism and even in the Anglican Communion (it’s remarkable how different one parish is from another, someone should call in a certain member
). But the markers are an emphasis on the Bible as the Word of God, personal conversion (‘do you have a relationship with Jesus?’, ‘have you repented?’), a focus on penal substitution (‘Christ died on the Cross for your sins’) and activism (pro-life and religious freedoms today, in the past anti-slavery activities among many but unfortunately not all).
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tweedlealice
Guest
Salutations
We live in Alice’s wonderland on the other side of the mirror. The Mad Hater is Pres. You know the last couple sentences in the Bible are: DONOT ADD OR SUBTRACT ANYTHING FROM THIS BIBLE. You will be Cursed.
Woe to the Swedes who are allowing changes.
In Christs love
Tweedlealice
Lord, let us have Your truth in our hearts and have courage to stand on Your word and just say, NO!
In Jesus name.
Amen
We live in Alice’s wonderland on the other side of the mirror. The Mad Hater is Pres. You know the last couple sentences in the Bible are: DONOT ADD OR SUBTRACT ANYTHING FROM THIS BIBLE. You will be Cursed.
Woe to the Swedes who are allowing changes.
In Christs love
Tweedlealice
Lord, let us have Your truth in our hearts and have courage to stand on Your word and just say, NO!
In Jesus name.
Amen
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stupidisasstupiddoes
Guest
Me too but that isn’t because a bunch of feminists removed gender from the language to make a point!
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Vico
Guest
Swedish nominatve for I, you, he, she, it: jag, du, han, hon, henne.…
I refuse to call anyone a “Female Chicken”It just doesn’t seem appropriate in Church
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stupidisasstupiddoes
Guest
Sweden is the logical conclusion of when feelings get prioritised over facts.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Is it important the that every time the name of Jesus is mentioned we point out that he is a Jew?
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Vico
Guest
Apparently, each ecclesial community does their own interpretation. There is also in the USA the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) which is conservative and confessional (accepts the Book of Concord of 1580).
Catholic Answers states: "Lutheranism acknowledges six specific confessions which distinguish it from other churches: (I) the unaltered Augsburg Confession (1530), (2) the Apology of the Augsburg Confession (1531), (3) Luther’s Large Catechism (1529), (4) Luther’s Catechism for Children (1529), (5) the Articles of Smalkald (1537), and (6) the Form of Concord (1577). These nine symbolical books (including the three Creeds) constitute what is known as the “Book of Concord”, which was first published at Dresden in 1580 by order of Elector Augustus of Saxony " …
Lutheranism
Lutheranism, the religious belief held by the oldest and in Europe the most numerous of the Protestant sects, founded by the Wittenberg reformer, Martin Luther....
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HarryStotle
Guest
IDK but it would seem very important that we don’t forget that he was, either. Nor that we begin to insist that we should stop calling him a Jew, but rather “Middle Eastern” or something similar instead.
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stupidisasstupiddoes
Guest
It’s (name removed by moderator)ortant we don’t change the language we use to imply there’s something wrong with jews
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commenter
Guest
Some of the early heresies taught that it did not really matter if Jesus had or did not have a real physical body. The crucifixion could be interpreted as a generic event, whenever cruelty or inequality happens. “Resurrection” would be whenever people become more renewed, and remember the Spirit of Jesus - not some event in Israel only, not specific to any one century.Cruciferi:
Swedish nominatve for I, you, he, she, it: jag, du, han, hon, henne.
Switching the reference from “he” to “it” is taking one more step towards making God vague. The Vague God does not hold to dogmas or absolutes of right/wrong, just a movement towards caring and equality - our own spirituality as a good in itself. On Easter, they would celebrate the rebirth of our spirit. In a few years, they would laugh at those who believe in a “literal” Jesus living in a given time and place, like those fundamentalists who still believe in a literal Noah, and a worldwide flood.
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commenter
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The mainline churches don’t concede that they are minimizing scripture or the “Confessions” - or “The Articles”, or The Other Foundational Documents. They claim to be applying the old documents to the modern pastoral situation, emphasizing supposedly neglected verses. Confessional statements, or their equivalents in other traditions, may define Lutheranism but cannot define Lutherans in the current year. Sacred they are, but they are paper.commenter:
That’s true. The LCMS is considered evangelical (and there are likely disputes over the designation) but they are categorized as such simply by not deviating from Christian doctrine. The ELCA is Mainline despite having the word ‘Evangelical’. The same can be said for the Church of Sweden.
Protestantism is unfortunately splintered into tens of thousands of denominations but there is a sharp dividing line between Mainline and ‘Evangelical’ and a reorganization is taking place in this framework.
No central authority but Lutherans have confessional statements that define Lutheranism.
There really is no obvious dividing line. Some churches, like the UCC, are obviously farther along into the mainline, close to Unitarians, who once were Christian. There are evangelical groups (the local Christian station calls them “evan-jelly-cal”) quietly shifting away from traditional biblical teachings, a little here, a little there, but still reliable, 60% of the time. I think they will cross the line at some point, but who decides that? For that matter, who decides where the line is, without a Magisterium?
In the absence of a living Magisterium, anyone can be labelled anything. Who’s to disprove it? You might say it is “obvious” the JW’s are a cult. But what about those in the grey area, that seem just a little cultish? Everything they do is wrapped in Scripture. Who defines for the grey areas, on Left or Right?
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Vico
Guest
In one of the articles I read in the past about Lutherans was mention of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew language is feminine not masculine, so it would be appropriate to refer to the Holy Spirit as she. Neuter would not apply to the human nature of Jesus Christ.Vico:
Some of the early heresies taught that it did not really matter if Jesus had or did not have a real physical body. The crucifixion could be interpreted as a generic event, whenever cruelty or inequality happens. “Resurrection” would be whenever people become more renewed, and remember the Spirit of Jesus - not some event in Israel only, not specific to any one century.Cruciferi:
Swedish nominatve for I, you, he, she, it: jag, du, han, hon, henne.
Switching the reference from “he” to “it” is taking one more step towards making God vague. The Vague God does not hold to dogmas or absolutes of right/wrong, just a movement towards caring and equality - our own spirituality as a good in itself. On Easter, they would celebrate the rebirth of our spirit. In a few years, they would laugh at those who believe in a “literal” Jesus living in a given time and place, like those fundamentalists who still believe in a literal Noah, and a worldwide flood.
Per Catholic teaching, of course the person of the Son is divine not human, with two natures, and the penetration and indwelling of the three divine persons reciprocally in one another. We must maintain Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for baptism to be valid.
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commenter
Guest
The Incarnation might be the most contested Christian doctrine in the near future. It won’t be attacked directly, but indirectly, gradually, implicitly.
I wish Tolkein or Lewis, with deep knowledge and respect for language, were here today, to comment on heresy-by-language.
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adgloriam
Guest
The Church of Sweden is on it’s way to extinction…
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Vico
Guest
I can see that happening to all the Lutheran National Churches due to secularization.Vico:
The Church of Sweden is on it’s way to extinction…
- Church of Denmark
- Church of Sweden
- Church of Norway
- Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland
- Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland
- Estoniann Evangelical Lutheran Church
- Church of the Faroe Islands
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Mark121359
Well-known member
Look at the name from Wikipedia. Eva Brunne. Now read the article below about this “bishop” below. Removing Crosses from churches? Huh??? It seems to me the Church of Sweden has a pattern of this radical progressive behavior. So none of this is even remotely surprising to me. They long ago went off the rails. Now, if the RCC starts this kind of radical behavior (And some of the things in the news of late is setting off alarm bells!)…then we can start panicking!!!
Lesbian bishop: 'Remove crosses from church' * WorldNetDaily * by Leo Hohmann
... Read more
www.wnd.com
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adgloriam
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