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MugenOne
Guest
Go Swiss, Go! Another reason for me to continue to wear my favorite Swiss Military shirt with a big white cross in the middle of it. foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577668,00.html?test=latestnews
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jakasaki
Guest
I saw this today on the news and the buzz on just about every islamic forum sites on the net. All the muslims I’ve seen on forums today are on “boycott” off all things that are Swiss.
The ban is for “new” miranets, the existing mosques which already have them are to stay.
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1ke
Guest
I don’t understand why any Catholic would rejoice at a country making a move to supress the Muslim’s ability to build the equivalent of the Catholic bell tower. It is a move against religious freedom that weakens **all **such freedom.
In Muslim countries, Christians are prohibited from building churches (or from repairing them when they begin to age) and we protest that to the world as unjust and fight for Christian freedoms in those countries. This is equally unjust.
I can certainly understand laws/ordinances regarding restricting the call to prayer-- or even their height or where they may be built. Having been awakened as the call blasted out of loud speakers from minarets in Egypt in the middle of the night I can see the need to restrict this in a plural society. Having also been nearly deafened by the bell tower in Florence at the Duomo-- I can see people wanting to restrict that too!
In days before electronics, these served a real purposes (both bell towers and minarets). Now they are more symbolic of the call to worship, but our Catholic Churches still ring the bells regularly. Would you support bans on Catholic bell towers or spires in new church construction? I think not, somehow.
In Muslim countries, Christians are prohibited from building churches (or from repairing them when they begin to age) and we protest that to the world as unjust and fight for Christian freedoms in those countries. This is equally unjust.
I can certainly understand laws/ordinances regarding restricting the call to prayer-- or even their height or where they may be built. Having been awakened as the call blasted out of loud speakers from minarets in Egypt in the middle of the night I can see the need to restrict this in a plural society. Having also been nearly deafened by the bell tower in Florence at the Duomo-- I can see people wanting to restrict that too!
In days before electronics, these served a real purposes (both bell towers and minarets). Now they are more symbolic of the call to worship, but our Catholic Churches still ring the bells regularly. Would you support bans on Catholic bell towers or spires in new church construction? I think not, somehow.
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Nine_Two
Guest
Not really comparable, since this law does not prohibit repairs to existing ones, and additionally Minarets are not central to worship.
It would be like if Muslim countries banned the construction of bell towers (which you mention), but allow the maintenence of the ones already built. Personally I’d see that as quite an improvement, and while I like the bell towers they are not central to my faith (my church does not have one, and only one nearby church does, so I only get to hear them if I’m running late anyway).
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1ke
Guest
Yes, it is relevant. It is a restriction on religious freedom.
Centrality is not at issue. Bell towers aren’t “central” to Catholic worship, but Catholics would be up in arms should they be banned. They are a legitimate expression of our faith. Minarets are religiously significant to Muslims.
It would be wrong for a Muslim country to have such a law. It is wrong of the Swiss to have such a law.
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Nine_Two
Guest
No it isn’t, a restriction on religious freedom means that people can’t practice, or can’t practice in the ideal manner. Bells and minerets have nothing to do with actual practice, they are both used to signal events. A digital watch can be used to signal those events as well.
Then why do I see so many Catholic Churches without bell towers?
I’d prefer if Muslim countries had such a law to what they have now.
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AdvanceAlways
Guest
Way to go Swiss!
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1ke
Guest
Says you. Who are you to say what is and isn’t important for Muslims in the construction of their worship buildings?
Uh, NOT. The bells and bell towers are a significant part of our Church heritage.
I don’t know. All the Churches I’ve ever been in have one. Most are not detached (so maybe you haven’t noticed the bells?), but some are.
The new cathedral in Houston has an *awesom *bell tower.
Well certainly we must work for the repeal of unjust laws that restrict the free exercise of religion in Muslim countries. The way to do that is not by restricting the practices of Muslims, including their mosque architecture, and passing unjust restrictions on religious freedom.
My position is consistent with the Catholic Bishops of Switzerland which issued a statement in September opposing this measure and urging Catholics to vote against it.
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Nine_Two
Guest
After reading another thread on another forum where atheists are celebrating over this, I think I’ve decided to change my tone. 
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jakasaki
Guest
The only reason muslims have these miranets are for this reason:
When mohamad proclaimed himself as a prophet of God there was a debate/discussion among him and his companions/people as to how to call the muslims to prayer 5 times a day.
He, mohamad said,… well the Christians have their bells.
He, mohamad said… well the Jews have their horn.
He mohamad said… we muslims will build a tall structure on our mosques and place a man up there and recite/call the people.
If it was me, and I had to hear the islamic “call of prayer” on top of miranet, with some guy screeching on top of his lungs this Arabic thing, I’d move or in this case support the ban.
Bells are one thing, horns are another… but to have a man on top of this thing 5 times, ( especially for the 4am prayer) a day to call the muslims to pray, well, that’s where I draw the line.
If I were living in a muslim country - OK - I get it.
But I don’t live in a muslim country. And Switzerland is not an islamic country.
When mohamad proclaimed himself as a prophet of God there was a debate/discussion among him and his companions/people as to how to call the muslims to prayer 5 times a day.
He, mohamad said,… well the Christians have their bells.
He, mohamad said… well the Jews have their horn.
He mohamad said… we muslims will build a tall structure on our mosques and place a man up there and recite/call the people.
If it was me, and I had to hear the islamic “call of prayer” on top of miranet, with some guy screeching on top of his lungs this Arabic thing, I’d move or in this case support the ban.
Bells are one thing, horns are another… but to have a man on top of this thing 5 times, ( especially for the 4am prayer) a day to call the muslims to pray, well, that’s where I draw the line.
If I were living in a muslim country - OK - I get it.
But I don’t live in a muslim country. And Switzerland is not an islamic country.
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Harpazo
Guest
Yeah. Atheists and their brand of tolerance.After reading another thread on another forum where atheists are celebrating over this, I think I’ve decided to change my tone.
Jon
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1ke
Guest
It’s an attack on all religions.After reading another thread on another forum where atheists are celebrating over this, I think I’ve decided to change my tone.
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Kadaveri
Guest
This complaining about the call the prayer is irrelevent. The change in the Swiss constitution bans the construction of minarets, not using them to give the call to prayer, which was never done in Switzerland in the first place.
This is the construction which caused the national crisis:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
This is the construction which caused the national crisis:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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1ke
Guest
They don’t use the minarets for the call to prayer outside Islamic countries. The minaret distinguishes the building as a mosque-- as set apart for muslim worship, as part of their religious heritage. Like the crucifix in the Catholic Church or many other religious symbols expressed in the way we build our churches.
It is an attack on their ability to build their mosques as their architectural, cultural, and religious heritage dictates. They should not be restricted from building their mosques in ways that say “this is a mosque.”
Laws should not restrict the way in which religious institutions build their buildings. Catholics should be free to build bell towers, spires, etc, and place crucifixes and crosses on their churches, Russian Orthodox should not be forbidden the onion domes and other distinguishing features of their church architecture, Jews should be free to put the star of David on their synagogues, and Mulsims should be free to distinguish their mosques by virtue of the minaret.
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jakasaki
Guest
**If you, poster “1ke” can pack your bags and go to SA, where it’s the home of mohamad and the birth of islam, and build a Catholic Church there, with a Cross on it, (forget the ding dong of the bells) I’ll back off this issue with the islamic minaret issue. **
Like I said earlier - this ban is for new constructions of mosques with minarets.
The sole purpose from islamic history of these minarets is to call their people to prayer.
Just because they ARE NOT being used today, in Switzerland for the call of islamic prayer, IT DOES NOT mean they will not use in the current future.
Muslims have been the “squeaky wheel” ever since 9.11 no matter what country or state they park their butts in and everyone is greasing them.
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1ke
Guest
I refer you back to my post #3.
Wow, I had no idea there were so many bigots on this board.
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jakasaki
Guest
I read your post #3
Sorry poster - I dislike islam 100% and I’ve never denied that.
Anything which denies Christ As The Son of God, and that’s islam & all muslims… yup… that’s me!
And yeah, lets add Judaism in there but this topic is about islam/muslim worship structure.
I stand by my post!
Call me what you want ~ I’m not offended.
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