Swiss Catholics call for same-sex partnerships, change in teaching on Communion [CWN]

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Tigg said:
I believe we’ve had a de facto schism for quite some time.
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It would seem that there are elements within the Church who wish to push for formal acceptance of de facto schismatic teachings. I wonder if such efforts will eventually result in formal schism, breaking off large segments of the Church.
 
Tigg said:
I understand the process of “development of doctrine” and I agree.
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I wasn’t questioning your understanding, my friend, but rather that of the Swiss Catholics. Apologies for not making that clear 🙂
 
^^^^^^ No problema at all! Thanks for the clarification - so many do not understand!
 
Pope Francis invited the Catholics of the world to express their thoughts on these topics. It’s fairly easy to see he wants to know how people are hurting, what they are finding difficulty with and what seeds of wisdom can come from the sensus fidelium. The basis of all this is not an organised attack on doctrine by people uninvited. It’s the Church being the ‘hospital’ listening to ‘symptoms’ in the interests of a ‘diagnosis’ and spiritual/theological ‘treatment’.
 
LongingSoul said:
It’s the Church being the ‘hospital’ listening to ‘symptoms’ in the interests of a ‘diagnosis’ and spiritual/theological ‘treatment’.
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Except, in this case, the patients are asking for poison.
 
LongingSoul said:
Pope Francis invited the Catholics of the world to express their thoughts on these topics. It’s fairly easy to see he wants to know how people are hurting, what they are finding difficulty with and what seeds of wisdom can come from the sensus fidelium. The basis of all this is not an organised attack on doctrine by people uninvited. It’s the Church being the ‘hospital’ listening to ‘symptoms’ in the interests of a ‘diagnosis’ and spiritual/theological ‘treatment’.
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Catholics don’t live in a vacuum. The political and media power structure does have an agenda. They are not disinterested parties. The Catholic Church is their main opponent.
 
Regarding the German questionaire it was acknowledged that ‘many aspects of Church teaching are neither understood nor accepted’ and I wonder if it the same with the Swiss Catholics. Presumably this refers to areas including contraception etc. If people do not understand, is it much of a surprise they dissent?
 
Brendan said:
Except, in this case, the patients are asking for poison.
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Many ladies in the throws of labour pain ask for many and varied drugs in their anguish. Generally the medical staff don’t focus on chiding them… they listen to the pain and work out an expertly appropriate remedy. The experts have it in hand.
 
LongingSoul said:
Many ladies in the throws of labour pain ask for many and varied drugs in their anguish…
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Yes, but in this case, they are asking the Church to GIVE the world pain and suffering, not alleviate it.

The Church can simply not accommodate them in their foolishness.
 
Tomdstone said:
There already have been changes since Vatican II on who may receive Holy Communion. For example, it was in the news that the Pope had given Holy Communion to a Protestant.
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What point do you think you made? The Church is not stagnant. Many changes in discipline have been made. Pope Pius X dispensed the sick from the obligation of fasting.
As for the Pope giving a protestant Communion where is your evidence other than “in the news” I have heard two different things 1. It was an error 2. the recipient had converted and was not protestant. I do not know the truth and I wouldn’t trust “news”
 
adrift said:
What point do you think you made?
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There has already been a change in teaching on Communion. It is in the missals in the Roman Catholic Church that it is allowed for members of the Polish National Catholic Church and some Eastern Churches.
 
Memaw said:
That is not a change, it may be an exception, depending on the circumstances. God Bless, Memaw
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It is a change, because in the past exceptions were not made. And Eastern Orthodox are allowed to receive Holy Communion now, which they were not before Vatican II.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Most tribunals will wave the fees if they truly cannot be afforded, and the husband’s involvement is helpful, but not necessary. Also, unless you two are engaged in sexual actions then you have no reason to abstain from communion (unless you’ve committed some other mortal sin, of course). It is not a mortal sin to be divorced, especially if the relationship was abusive. As long as her conscious is clean on other grave matters then she should embrace the healing power of the sacraments ^^ Now, if you’re engaged sexually then both of you should be abstaining from the sacrament.

I would really encourage her to speak to her pastor about the financial burden, and then proceed with the annulment process. Her husband does not have to have anything to do with it, an annulment can be obtained with or without the other spouse’s cooperation.

May God bless her for her desire to keep the Church’s teachings, and grant her a just ruling on her annulment.
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I believe you are incorrect here. Divorce is a sin as per the CCC below.

2384** Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law.** It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
 
SuperLuigi said:
Requests denied.

NEXT!
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Awesome, SuperLuigi!

Actually, these lay Catholics, priests and bishops in Switzerland (and similarly in Germany) are clearly deluded and/or ignorant. I mean… if we are consistent here with regard to dictating teaching based on pew poll results, then the Catholic Church should change her teaching regarding a God who is personally involved in the lives of people as well as change her teachings on the resurrection of Jesus. After all, this was the result of the surveys that came back in Germany. Most don’t pray daily (including more than half of the priests who responded); they don’t believe in a God who is personal; they don’t believe in the resurrection of Jesus; etc. And to think they are qualified to provided pastoral insight… Are you kidding me? And what an amazing indictment of many of the bishops and priests as ‘teachers’ in these countries - they will have much to answer for on judgment day.
 
Tomdstone said:
There has already been a change in teaching on Communion. It is in the missals in the Roman Catholic Church that it is allowed for members of the Polish National Catholic Church and some Eastern Churches.
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I don’t know what point you are trying to make. As I pointed out, there have been changes before. If you are trying to say that this is a change in moral teaching than you are wrong this is a matter of discipline not moral change. Disciplines have changed. Many confuse these two issues.
 
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