Syncretistic prayers with Muslims... any advice?

[CompSciGuy]

What the above poster said. I can’t comprehend why bringing Christ to prayer, whatever the situation, would be wrong. Prayer certainly doesn’t suggest the Muslim truth is the correct Truth.

Wasn’t it JPII who kissed the Qur’an, in recognition of Muslims’ search for Truth? They’re our brethren. We ought to love them. And praying, with the Holy Spirit doing His work, is the best witness.

I have a problem with this. To say that Muslims are merely “searching for truth” is really dumbing it down. Islam isn’t some kind of “halfway point.” It is a completely different religion that teaches a definitively different story from Christianity. I am sure that if you ask a Muslim, they will tell you that they believe that Islam is the full truth, the ending destination.

When we pray to God, we are praying to a Triune being, to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. When we pray with Muslims, do we refuse to acknowledge this? Do you not think this could be an offense to God?

 

[Catholic90]

Muslims have a distorted vision of God, as do Jews.

Praying with them gives no fruitful outcome.

I don’t even think it’d be a stretch to say that the Muslim God was not the same as ours.

Jesus was a Jew. To say that Jews have a distorted vision of God is to say Jesus had a distorted vision of God.

You know what we love Muslins and Jesus died for them too, but we do not need to pray with them, but by all means go ahead and do it if you want.

Please read about Muslins more and what and how they feel about Christians and Jews, not all Muslins but most.

rinnie,

when the Muslins take over, you will pray to their God, and no more communion. No more Jesus.

If Muslins take over the world, does that mean there will be no more nylon or synthetic fabrics? No spandex? No breathable wickable materials?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Thank God.
**But Abraham worshipped the Holy Trinity.

Do the other so-called “Abrahamic religions” claim that Abraham worshipped the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? **

If not, then their god is not the same God.

Abraham was Jewish. He worshipped God. The Son had not yet been born when Abraham was alive.

 

[Luvtosew]

Hope not, I use a lot of Muslin fabric.

 

[meltzerboy]

Christians can quote the Bible, Muslims the Quran and Jews the Talmud (or the Torah) until the stars grow cold, each claiming to be the “one true faith.”

The reality is, Christians, Muslims and Jews all sprang from the same root.

That root is Abraham, which is why all three are referred to as Abrahamic religions.

The world might be a more peaceful place if members of all three Abrahamic religions would remember that from time to time.

Peace,

Seeker

I agree the Abrahamic religions share an ethical monotheism and have common historical roots. (BTW, the Torah is part of the Hebrew Bible (OT), whereas the Talmud is the Oral Law.)

However, our interpretations of G-d do differ. Actually, in this respect, Judaism and Islam are probably closer to each other than Christianity, which believes in a Trinitarian G-d of three Persons.

With regard to ecumenical prayer, I’m not sure exactly how that would work since there are significant differences between the Abrahamic forms of worship, as well as within Christianity itself, not the least being the focus on Jesus which is not shared by Judaism and Islam. As a universal gesture of good will and brotherhood, I think it is admirable; but in practical terms, it seems problematic.

 

[sedonaman]

I agree the Abrahamic religions share an ethical monotheism and have common historical roots. …

I have a problem with this when it comes to Islam. The original apostles were Jewish, as was Jesus, so there is an unbroken connection between the Old Testament Judaism and New Testament Christianity. This cannot be said of Islam. To fill in the gap, so to speak, Islam claims that the original Jews and Christians were really Muslims. Where is the proof of this claim? There is none of which I have encountered, so can it really be said that Islam has “common historical roots” with either Judaism or Christianity?

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I think it is important to note that the CCC and the article you provided make a distinction between Muslims the people and Islam the ideology. Too many posters confuse the discussion by equating the two.

Great point.

 

[Luvtosew]

Great point.

Islam is a Religion, not an ideology

Is Christianity an ideology??

 

[Mickey]

In other words, what we’re asserting here, Mickey, does not presuppose that Muslims “have” the Father. …despite their faith’s errors - they intend to worship only the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That is why the Catechism of the Catholic Church asserts what it does.

Whether or not they intend to be praying to the God of Abraham…who worshipped the Holy Trinity…I do not know. But common prayer is wrong because, to me, it would seem to affirm their heresy.

 

[Mickey]

Abraham was Jewish. He worshipped God. The Son had not yet been born when Abraham was alive.

Read Genesis 18 (the hospitality of Abraham).

 

[rinnie]

How could we separate the Father from the Son when Jesus Christ affirms I and the Father are One (St. John 10:30)

WE can/t, We cannot ignore the truth that has been given us. But in the same token how can we be held responsible for a truth that has not been revealed to us. The Pope said we cannot.

Every truth that we have is a proof of the amazing grace of God. But Mickey where did I ever say that we COULD separate the Father from the Son or the Holy Spirit?

The question was can we pray with Muslims and the answer is yes, we can pray with anyone as long as we are praying to the One True God, which as I explained is the Same God of Abraham as we believe.

 

[rinnie]

Thank God.
But Abraham worshipped the Holy Trinity.

Do the other so-called “Abrahamic religions” claim that Abraham worshipped the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?

If not, then their god is not the same God.

How did Father Abraham worship the Holy Trinity when Christ did not reveal himself as the Son until long after the passing of Abraham?

 

[sedonaman]

Islam is a Religion, not an ideology
…

That’s debatable.

Is Islam a religion?

Religious Islam is what a Muslim does to avoid Hell and go to Paradise. These are the Five Pillars – prayer, charity to Muslims, pilgrimage to Mecca, fasting, and declaring Mohammed to be the final prophet.

But the Trilogy (Koran, Sira, and Hadith) is clear about the doctrine. At least 75% of the Sira (life of Mohammed) is about jihad. About 67% of the Koran written in Mecca is about the unbelievers, or politics. Of the Koran of Medina, 51% is devoted to the unbelievers. About 20% of Bukhari’s Hadith is about jihad and politics. Religion is the smallest part of Islamic foundational texts.

All of Western logic is based upon the law of contradiction – if two things contradict, then at least one of them is false. But Islamic logic is dualistic; two things can contradict each other and both are true. [This comes from their being two Korans: Meccan and Medinan which have contradicting statements, but neither is wrong.]

No dualistic system may be measured by one answer. This is the reason that the arguments about what constitutes the “real” Islam go on and on and are never resolved. A single right answer does not exist.

Dualistic systems can be measured only by statistics. It is futile to argue one side of the dualism is true. As an analogy, quantum mechanics always gives a statistical answer to all questions.

Political Islam’s most famous duality is the division of the world into believers, dar al Islam, and unbelievers, dar al harb. The largest part of the Trilogy relates to treatment of the unbelievers, kafirs. Even Hell is political. There are 146 references to Hell in the Koran. Only 6% of those in Hell are there for moral failings – murder, theft, etc. The other 94% of the reasons for being in Hell are for the intellectual sin of disagreeing with Mohammed, a political crime. Hence, Islamic Hell is a political prison for those who speak against Islam.

For an example of using statistics, look at the question: what is the real jihad, the jihad of inner, spiritual struggle or the jihad of war? Let’s turn to Bukhari (the Hadith) for the answer, as he repeatedly speaks of jihad. In Bukhari 97% of the jihad references are about war and 3% are about the inner struggle. So the statistical answer is that jihad is 97% war and 3% inner struggle. Is jihad war? Yes – 97%. Is jihad inner struggle? Yes – 3%. So if you are writing an article, you can make a case for either. But in truth, almost every argument about Islam can be answered by: “all of the above.” Both sides of the duality are right.

Religious Islam is defined as doctrine concerned with going to Paradise and avoiding Hell by following the Koran and the Sunna. The part of Islam that deals with the “outsider”, the Kafir, is defined as political Islam. Since so much of the Trilogy is about the Kafir, the statistical conclusion is that Islam is primarily a political system, not a religious system.

Mohammed’s success depended on politics, not religion. He preached the religion of Islam for 13 years in Mecca and garnered 150 followers. He was forced to move to Medina and became a politician and warrior. When he died, every Arab was a Muslim. Mohammed succeeded through politics, not religion.

There would be no Islam today, if it were only a religion. Statistics show that Islamic politics is what brought Islam success, not religion. To say that Islam is the religion of peace misses the point, since the religion is not the core of Islam’s power. It is politics that count, not religion.

The statistical conclusion: Islam is primarily a political ideology.

“Statistical Islam”, by William Warner

 

[Luvtosew]

Maybe ask a Muslin why they pray.

 

[jakasaki]

Maybe ask a Muslin why they pray.

They pray the way their prophet did.

 

[meltzerboy]

That’s debatable.

There are those who say the same about Judaism in light of Zionism. I’m no expert in Islam, but I’m almost sure it is a religion. One might say every religion has ideological beliefs, but is nonetheless a religion. I have to wonder about the credentials and motivation of the writer of this text.

 

[rinnie]

Whether or not they intend to be praying to the God of Abraham…who worshipped the Holy Trinity…I do not know. But common prayer is wrong because, to me, it would seem to affirm their heresy.

But Mickey if common prayer is wrong as you say then what do you make of the word of God that states where 2 or more gather and pray in my name, that proves God is there.

Now how could it possibly be wrong for people to gather and worship the One True God. Rather it was revealed to you in the Father the Son or the Holy Spirit. It is still the one True God.

If I said Dear Father help me, or Most Holy Ghost please protect me, or I said Dear Jesus confort me, if any of these wrong.

And if we are to not pray with or brother and sisters in the Muslim faith how could we ever get the chance of spreading the good word, and planting the seed of truth. If we won;t even pray with then, how do you suppose we ever spread the good news of our Lord, and the Eucharist, etc. Where else could we ever do it?

 

[rinnie]

There are those who say the same about Judaism in light of Zionism. I’m no expert in Islam, but I’m almost sure it is a religion. One might say every religion has ideological beliefs, but is nonetheless a religion. I have to wonder about the credentials and motivation of the writer of this text.

I have to agree with you. It does have some truth. While I agree it is not the fullness of the truth, there is some of the word of God and his truth in their teachings.

Its just like any other faith the people who take the word of God and make it what they want it to mean. And thats where the trouble begins.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Whether or not they intend to be praying to the God of Abraham…who worshipped the Holy Trinity…I do not know. But common prayer is wrong because, to me, it would seem to affirm their heresy.

That is precisely where we disagree, and where I think you genuinely misjudge the implications of praying alongside those of different religions. I see no reason it seems to affirm their false beliefs.

Catholic theology has made a distinction between participating in non-Christian prayers and/or worship - which is much more problematic and (depending on the religion) even idolatrous - and praying with a nonbeliever in the strict sense of praying next to them. No Christian should in any prayer seem to condone or profess anything that contradicts Christian truth. In this twenty-first century, however, people seem to have realized that it’s important for people of different faiths to be able to live in peace together.

Praying jointly with non-Christians is one way of encouraging this objective by engaging with each other peacefully… plus it does help Christians not to miss great opportunities to pray for nonbelievers to find Christ and His Truth.

Because of the cultural circumstances of the twenty-first century, I see no reason why prayer alongside non-Christians implies agreement with everything their religions teach.

A few years ago, an Episcopalian priestess decided that she was both Christian and Muslim… thereby demonstrating that she is, in fact, neither. The Episcopalian denomination she served even kicked her out. Pretty much everyone that I know of acknowledged what an impossible contradiction her attempt at radical syncretism was. People know that Christianity and Islam cannot both be true. They really do.

 

[Mickey]

The question was can we pray with Muslims and the answer is yes, we can pray with anyone as long as we are praying to the One True God, which as I explained is the Same God of Abraham as we believe.

And I say no. When we pray with them we are affirming their belief…which denies the Trinity.

 

[Mickey]

How did Father Abraham worship the Holy Trinity when Christ did not reveal himself as the Son until long after the passing of Abraham?

Read Genesis 18.