Syncretistic prayers with Muslims... any advice?

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Do you believe that plan is Jesus Christ?
I know the Plan is Jesus Christ. It is by the death of Christ that we can gain eternal life.

But let me ask you this, if you do not know of Jesus Christ, or understand how it was by his death and ressurrection that made eternal life possible, how would that take away the point that it was indeed by his death and ress. that make eternal life possible.

Do you see what I am saying. Rather people deny or accept that all Salvation comes from Jesus Christ does nothing to the true fact that it does.

So if I were to pray to God and not understand the Christian teaching, but I live my life doing the will of God, living my life to the best of the Grace given to me by the One and only True God, would that mean Jesus did not die for me also?
 
[Whether] people deny or accept that all Salvation comes from Jesus Christ does nothing to the true fact that it does.
As my friend jam said quoted earlier:

If you deny Me before men I will deny you before the Father.
 
As my friend jam said quoted earlier:

If you deny Me before men I will deny you before the Father.
What exactly are you trying to say this scripture states Mickey. I don’t want to put words in your mouth.
 
What exactly are you trying to say this scripture states Mickey.
You said that it does not matter whether someone believes salvation comes from Christ. I am merely stating that it really does matter.
 
“I will be his father, and he shall be my son.” (1 Chronicles 17:13)
 
You said that it does not matter whether someone believes salvation comes from Christ. I am merely stating that it really does matter.
1260 ccc Since Christ died for all and since all men are in fact called to one and same destiny which is divine we must hold that the HOLY SPIRIT offers to ALL the possibllity of being made partakers in a way known only to God of the Paschal mystery.

EVERY man who is IGNORANT of the Gospel of Christ and his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God inaccordance with his understanding of it CAN be saved.

And the way please do not interpret my words for me. I said that even if someone does not believe Salvation does not come from Jesus Christ does not change the fact that Salvation DOES indeed Come from Jesus Christ.
 
It is a known fact that they do not recognize the divinity of Christ or the Holy Spirit…therefore they do not pray to the one, true, God…the God of Abraham…the Trinitarian God. It is as simple as that. Pope John Paul II went too far in his quest for ecumenism…but since it is not an infallible document, (according to your Church), I do not believe that it is required for you to accept it.

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)
Where do you have the authority to judge JPll? ANd please do not tell me what is and what is not required for me to believe.

I must believe all of the teachings of the CC. I am not permitted to pick and choose.
 
1260 ccc Since Christ died for all and since all men are in fact called to one and same destiny which is divine we must hold that the HOLY SPIRIT offers to ALL the possibllity of being made partakers in a way known only to God of the Paschal mystery.
The “possibility”…if they accept Christ…correct?
EVERY man who is IGNORANT of the Gospel of Christ and his Church but seeks the truth and does the will of God inaccordance with his understanding of it CAN be saved.
“Can be saved”…if they accept Christ…correct?
I said that even if someone does not believe Salvation does not come from Jesus Christ does not change the fact that Salvation DOES indeed Come from Jesus Christ.
I am sorry rinnie, but you are not communicating legibly…I still do not understand what you are saying here. You just used a triple negative in this sentence using “does not”…and I cannot make heads or tails out of what you are trying to say.
 
[SIGN][/SIGN]
I know the Plan is Jesus Christ. It is by the death of Christ that we can gain eternal life.

But let me ask you this, if you do not know of Jesus Christ, or understand how it was by his death and ressurrection that made eternal life possible, how would that take away the point that it was indeed by his death and ress. that make eternal life possible.

Do you see what I am saying. [SIGN]Rather people deny or accept that all Salvation comes from Jesus Christ does nothing to the true fact that it does.[/SIGN]So if I were to pray to God and not understand the Christian teaching, but I live my life doing the will of God, living my life to the best of the Grace given to me by the One and only True God, would that mean Jesus did not die for me also?
This is exactly what I said.
 
Where do you have the authority to judge JPll?
I am surely not judging him. I thought he was a pretty good pope. I am simply asking you whether it is required for you to accept his “muslim is the same God” teaching as a matter of faith…because I am fairly certain it is not an infallible document according to your Church.
And please do not tell me what is and what is not required for me to believe.
I am not trying to tell you anything. It is a matter for your conscience. There is no need to get testy.
 
The “possibility”…if they accept Christ…correct?
“Can be saved”…if they accept Christ…correct?

I am sorry rinnie, but you are not communicating legibly…I still do not understand what you are saying here. You just used a triple negative in this sentence using “does not”…and I cannot make heads or tails out of what you are trying to say.
No Mickey I did not say that. I said and let me repeat once more We must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers in way KNOWN only to GOD of the Pastoral Mystery.

I do not know the extend and mercy of the Holy Spirit nor do I pretend to. God will judge each and every one of us according to his Mercy.
 
This is exactly what I said.

“Rather people deny or accept that all Salvation comes from Jesus Christ does nothing to the true fact that it does.”
Did you mean “rather” or “whether”?

“Rather” makes no sense to me. :confused:
 
I am surely not judging him. I thought he was a pretty good pope. I am simply asking you whether it is required for you to accept his “muslim is the same God” teaching as a matter of faith…because I am fairly certain it is not an infallible document according to your Church.
I am not trying to tell you anything. It is a matter for your conscience. There is no need to get testy.
I am not testy Mickey:D

ANd yes I do beleive they we are held to believe all of the Teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

If the Pope says that the Muslim God is indeed the same God as the CC, I believe he has the authority to speak in the name of God and I believe him.
 
God will judge each and every one of us according to his Mercy.
This is absolutely true.

But this thread is not about judgement. It is about worshipping the one true God…the Trinitarian God…the God of Abraham…and whether it is edifying to pray in common with those (such as muslims) who knowingly reject the one true God.

I say no.
 
And yes I do beleive they we are held to believe all of the Teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
But you are not required to believe that muslims prayer to the same God…even though it is in the catechism. Correct?
 
Equating Jews and Muslims in this respect is ludicrous. There is a big difference between them.
No, it’s logical, because Jews deny the Incarnation and the Trinity just as strenuously as Muslims do. You could make a case that Muslims are more likely to be worshiping the true God than Christians, since they do at least give Jesus high regard as a prophet–but I don’t think that’s a significant consideration for the present discussion.
The key to understanding the difference lies in remembering the historical perspective of how the three religions were born and developed:

Judaism > Christianity > Islam
Not relevant to the question of which religion “worships the true God.” It is relevant to all sorts of other considerations, of course, but not that one. (And one could argue that Judaism as we know it really doesn’t predate Christianity, anyway.)
True, Jews (in general, but with more and more exceptions) deny the Trinity
This depends on what you mean by “Jews,” of course.

Muslims could similarly say, “Christians in general, but with more and more exceptions, hold to the false doctrine of the Trinity, which is a corruption of the original teachings of Jesus, peace be upon him.”

We Christians would respond that from our perspective a Christian who denies the Trinity is not fully a Christian.
but you could call this a blind spot in their faith.
You could, if you were desperately committed to a logically untenable position.

Classical, rabbinic Judaism has no room for Jesus whatever. It’s not a question of a “blind spot” but of a radically different understanding of the Old Testament.
As the original recipients of God’s revelation, Jews fully believe in the God of Abraham who revealed Himself in the Old Testament. So we are talking about a failure to recognize the fullness of God’s revelation. Coming to a recognition of the Incarnation and Trinity would thus perfect and complete their Jewish faith, without any need to throw out their Jewish heritage.
Most Jews would dismiss this as dishonest Christian propaganda. But at any rate, I don’t see how this is relevant to the question of who worships the true God. Since Muslims have some regard for Jesus–more than traditional Jews but falling short of orthodox Christianity–you can argue that they have a less imperfect version of revelation than Jews, in the respect that matters most, which is Jesus.
Muslims, on the other hand, are another story: First, they claim that both the Old Testament and New Testament have been falsified, so they don’t even really believe in any part of God’s original revelation.
Irrelevant, because they believe the same things Jews do about God. The points on which they think the OT has been falsified do not pertain to the doctrine of God, as far as I know. They pertain to the special role given the Jews, and to certain other points where Muslims appear to have a garbled version of the Biblical narrative, which of course they conside themselves obligated to defend as the true version.

So the point remains: if Muslims believe in a false god because of their denial of Trinity and Incarnation, so do Jews.
In addition, Muslims add the teachings of Muhammad in the Qur’an as most authoritative, and claim that these were revealed by God. Now these teachings explicitly deny the Trinity, Incarnation, Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross, etc… So for a Muslim to come to the truth of the Christian faith, he would have to explicitly reject the teachings of Islam.
Exactly the same is true of rabbinic Judaism. You are showing a lack of understanding of Jewish tradition in thinking that it does not explicitly reject what Christians believe about Jesus. Jews celebrate the memory of martyrs who died rather than become Christians.

Granted, it may be uncharitable to Jews to remind Christians too often of how opposed Judaism is to Christianity. In the High Middle Ages, Christians made the discovery, and the result was lethal for Jews. Perhaps it’s a good thing, pragmatically speaking, that many Christians have become confused on this point again. But truth matters.
It seems to me that there is a big difference between the people to whom the Messiah was promised and, though they still fail to recognize Him, have still a certain openness and expectation of the Messiah in their own Biblical faith, and on the other hand the members of another religion whose basic tenets explicitly deny all the pillars of God’s biblical revelation.
There’s a big difference in your sentiments toward the two groups. None in their actual attitude toward Christian revelation, except insofar as Muslims have a more positive one.

Edwin
 
What would the object of prayer between Catholics and Islam be? 🤷
The One True God.

Note that according to the New Testament and the early Church generally, even pagans were referring to the true God when they spoke of a supreme Being in whom “we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17 and Romans 1 are the clearest examples of this in the NT–it’s implicit in all the early Christian apologists as well).

Note further that St. Thomas Aquinas clearly identifies the God of pagan, Jewish, and Islamic philosophers with the God of Christian revelation, merely claiming that Christians have fuller truth about this God.

But we’ve been over and over this before, and the fact that your side has no solid arguments doesn’t change a thing, because this isn’t a position that depends on reason.

Edwin
 
But you are not required to believe that muslims prayer to the same God…even though it is in the catechism. Correct?
Yes I most certainly am. Tell me Mickey if you did not believe a teaching of your Church why would you belong to it.

I believe the CCC is the true teaching of my faith, If I did not believe every single teaching given to me by my faith is true I would not belong.

While I will agree there are MANY teaching of my faith that I do not understand as clearly as I would like, and it can take me months to grasp the understanding. By the Grace of God it does always come to me. And with his Grace I can then see what I was either to ignorant or blind to see at that time.

But I always know that if there is a teaching I do not understand or get, it is by my lack of knowledge or pride that causes the problem. And in time God always finds a way to open up my mind and heart to what I need to understand to grasp his teaching.
 
Hello everyone,

A case has come to my attention recently of a Catholic community here in Jerusalem that prays together with Muslims.

Does anyone know of a Magisterial document that says that this is wrong so that we could take action and write to the superior of the community?

thanks in advance,

Ariel
Catholics for Israel
www.catholicsforisrael.com
catholicsforisrael.blogspot.com/
I’m not one to have my canon law and doctrine memorized, but I know praying with Muslims is very much allowed by the ordained and by the laity.
 
I’m not one to have my canon law and doctrine memorized, but I know praying with Muslims is very much allowed by the ordained and by the laity.
Here is something else to think about. Many Protestants deny Christ in the Eucharist. Does that mean we cannot pray with Protestants because they deny Christ in the Eucharist. Of course not.
 
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