Syncretistic prayers with Muslims... any advice?

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passer_by said:
Oh my, what an objection. What truth have I denied?

You want to claim something that the RC does not teach i.e. The Muslims DO follow the same God. All the RC teaches is that Muslims claim they do. There is a difference in the two.

And? Which part of the above states that they do actually follow the God of Abraham? All it says is that they profess to do so. And as I said some post before, they do share a better relationship with the mystical body of Christ than a Hindu does.

But as I said a million times, it is a different thing to profess and actually DO teach or follow.

I give full ascent to the teachings of the Church. That being said, I give full assent to the teachings that are interpreted properly.

Right now you want me to accept your interpretation which leaves much to be deserved. There is no definition of similarity and no reason given to accept your definition of similarity.

Me, and other here are merely pointing out that on the intuitive sense of similarity, Islam does not qualify as having the same God as Christianity.

So? Whose denying the CCC? I am merely denying Rinnie’s interpretation of it.

Lets not make false accusations here.

So why are you so sure about your interpretation of that teaching is more correct than mine?
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Also not to de-rail but there is a HUGE difference between the Muslim God and the Hindu God. The Hindu do not profess to believe in the ONE TRUE GOD the GOD OF ABRAHAM.
 
Mickey said:
Sorry rinnie…popes are not infallible in everything they do and say.
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Sorry Mickey but what are also considered Infalible are the teachings fo the whloe Body of Bishops of the Church. That would indeed include the CCC.

The CCC is defined as Church Doctrine and Teachings.😃
 
rinnie said:
The CCC is defined as Church Doctrine and Teachings.
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I have told you many times…everything in your CCC is not infallible…only those teachings which are reiterated as previously stated infallible doctrine. We go toScrioture for the answer.

1 John 2:23 (Douay-Rheims)–Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
 
Mickey said:
I have told you many times…everything in your CCC is not infallible…only those teachings which are reiterated as previously stated infallible doctrine. We go toScrioture for the answer.

1 John 2:23 (Douay-Rheims)–Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
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Sorry Mickey it is stated that the CCC which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today Order by virtue of my APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY.

He has the right to use it and he did. Anyone who belongs to the RCC must accept this. He has Apostolic Authority traced down to Peter to teach in the name of Jesus Christ.

He has it and he used it. We as Roman Catholic do not deny the Apostolic Authority given to the Pope to speak in the name of Christ which he used.
 
Those who through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church but who nevertheless SEEK GOD with a sincere heart and moved by grace try in their actions to do his will as THEY KNOW IT, the dictated of thier conscience- those TOO may achieve Eternal Salvation. CCC 847

Which as I mentioned is taught as the true faith of the RCC by the Apostolic Authority given to the Pope as the Vicar of Christ.

This is not the Popes opinion. This is a Statement of the faith of the CCC. A true teaching that is given to us by him using his Apostolic Authority.😃
 
rinnie said:
He has it and he used it.
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The" muslim same God theory" is not an infallible teaching… Sorry rin. And it does not trump Scripture.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father.
**Romans 10:9-10 **
For if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For, with the heart, we believe unto justice; but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation
 
Pope Eugene IV
“Moreover, we trust that with God’s help another benefit will accrue to the Christian commonwealth; because from this union, once it is established, there is hope that very many from the abominable sect of Mahomet will be converted to the Catholic faith.”
 
Pope Clement V
“It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens (i.e., The followers of Islam, also called Muslims) live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on Catholic princes, one and all… They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”
 
**Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra: **
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity… But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ…the Son of God is God and man…– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”
 
Mickey said:
Sorry rinnie…popes are not infallible in everything they do and say.
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Never said they were. But they are when they use the Apostolic Authority given to them by Christ with the keys to the kingdom.

You are Peter and to you I give the keys to the kingdom. What you hold bound is bound. Well he bound the CCC thats for sure.

He exercised his right!! He held us bound also. He has that right to exercise his Authority and he did.
 
Mickey said:
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity… But it is necessary for eternal salvation that he faithfully believe also in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ…the Son of God is God and man…– This is the Catholic faith; unless each one believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”
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Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus should explain this a little more clearly to you, just in case you don’t understand it.

Just look it up, its not hard to find. By the way it is still true, but this gives you a deeper understanding what was being said!😃
 
And yet…his statements and actions caused much confusion and scandal amongst the faithful.
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If people are scandalised by an act not of wrong doing, then they must ask themselves why a religious leader would do that in the first place? I don’t think this should cause any confusion at all. I first heard it a week before I saw this thread and frankly, I knew there was a perfectly good explanation for it. An act that is not morally wrong and can serve to produce more good fruit than confusion should not be condemned in my opinion.

I think that the matter has been over-flogged. This might be a good way to end:
Before the saducees came to meet jesus, he had said nothing publicly about their beliefs (or they wouldn’t have had to ask). It would have been assumed He took no stand on the matter. When they asked, however, He showed them the error of their beliefs calmly, telling them that they were quite mistaken. I love the way he replies. I think a similar case is before us. We can argue forever about it (like the pharisees and saducees did) or we could just let time and God be the judge about who is serving the one true God.
[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
 
Mickey said:
Pope Clement V
“It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens (i.e., The followers of Islam, also called Muslims) live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on Catholic princes, one and all… They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”
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He has the right to his opinion. Just as we have the right to ours.🤷
 
Busy_bee said:
If people are scandalised by an act not of wrong doing
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Are you saying that the ancient gesture of veneration with a kiss…a gesture that the Eastern Catholics and Orthodox use to venerate the Holy Cross, the Holy Bible, the Holy Icons, and the Holy Relics…is not scandalous when used to kiss the Koran?

God forbid!

Personally, I believe he regretted it right after he did it.
 
**Pope Pius II **
“Turn the anger of the Almighty against the godless Turks and Barbarians who despise Christ the Lord.”
 
rinnie said:
Never said they were. But they are when they use the Apostolic Authority given to them by Christ with the keys to the kingdom.

You are Peter and to you I give the keys to the kingdom. What you hold bound is bound. Well he bound the CCC thats for sure.

He exercised his right!! He held us bound also. He has that right to exercise his Authority and he did.
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Yes! We are bound to believe that Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Life and nobody comes to the Father but through Him.
And…that those that do not profess the Trinity do not know the one true God.
 
Mickey said:
Pope Clement V
“It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens (i.e., The followers of Islam, also called Muslims) live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests, commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place… This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council’s approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on Catholic princes, one and all… They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet… Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness.”
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👍
 
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