Synod offers striking softening to remarried, proposing individual discernment

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Brendan said:
Hence the role of the CDF… for those specifics.

Hence the role of the CDF…

And for any disciplines related to the doctrines that the CDF has clarified, we have Cardinal Sarah to clarify those…
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Actually it is the role first of the Holy Father to make any decisions from the recommendations coming out of the Synod; not the CDF or Cardinal Sarah. The Synod was simply a discerning body giving recommendations.
 
Actually there is quite a bit of history to what might be thought of as the “Cardinal Kaspar proposal." In 1993, three German bishops, Bishops Kaspar, Lehmann, and Saier, issued a pastoral letter in their dioceses suggesting that there should be “room for pastoral flexibility in complex, individual cases,” with respect to individuals who had divorced and remarried. And further that this ought to be delegated to local bishops.

However, the CDF–Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger at the time, immediately issued its own pastoral letter reaffirming tradition Catholic doctrine relating to divorce and remarriage.

In 2001, Cardinal Kaspar wrote a similar suggestion in an article for America magazine. This was followed later by an article by Cardinal Ratzinger in the same magazine reaffirming the traditional doctrine.

The saga has been ongoing.
 
gilliam said:
Actually it is the role first of the Holy Father to make any decisions from the recommendations coming out of the Synod; not the CDF or Cardinal Sarah. The Synod was simply a discerning body giving recommendations.
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Yep, and do you expect that the Pope will be any more specific than the Synod, especially around the issue of the divorced and remarried receiving Holy Communion (an issue rejected by over 2/3 of the bishops)

And don’t forget that Pope Francis has expressed a strong interest in Synodality, namely in hearing the advice of bishops gathers in Synods.

I am very confident that Pope Francis’ phrasing will the virtually identical to that of the Synod’s reports, and thus the implementation details will fall to the designated Congregations. The CDF to define what it means to discern in light of Church teaching, and for the CDWDS to define the appropriate disciplines.
 
Brendan said:
Yep, and do you expect that the Pope will be any more specific than the Synod, especially around the issue of the divorced and remarried receiving Holy Communion (an issue rejected by over 2/3 of the bishops)

And don’t forget that Pope Francis has expressed a strong interest in Synodality, namely in hearing the advice of bishops gathers in Synods.

I am very confident that Pope Francis’ phrasing will the virtually identical to that of the Synod’s reports, and thus the implementation details will fall to the designated Congregations. The CDF to define what it means to discern in light of Church teaching, and for the CDWDS to define the appropriate disciplines.
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I tend to agree with you that an apostolic exhortation or encyclical from Pope Francis will be close to what the Synod recommends. The Holy Father tends to consult with the CDF prior to publication. I don’t think they or another Vatican office will necessarily need to come out with anything later unless canon law needs to be changed to correspond with a new process or the catechism needs to be reworded to be a more welcoming document.

By the way, Synodality does not mean we all of a sudden turned into protestants. Francis has never suggested that. Synodality as defined by Francis, seems to be more of the clergy listening to the people and the Holy Father listening to the clergy; but the decisions still come from the Pope. He made that clear this month. “You discern, we discern, I decide,” as they say in the Vatican.
 
Brendan said:
Yep, and do you expect that the Pope will be any more specific than the Synod, especially around the issue of the divorced and remarried receiving Holy Communion (an issue rejected by over 2/3 of the bishops)
.
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If you listen to Cardinal Pell in the video, this is an issue that is not addressed in the chapter 85. In fact, the synod rejected any clarification because less than a third of the bishops wanted to specific this very issue. Again, this was Cardinal Pell’s secretary that mentioned this.
 
pnewton said:
If you listen to Cardinal Pell in the video, this is an issue that is not addressed in the chapter 85. In fact, the synod rejected any clarification because less than a third of the bishops wanted to specific this very issue. Again, this was Cardinal Pell’s secretary that mentioned this.
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Too many people are focusing on communion; it is a distraction.
 
pnewton said:
If you listen to Cardinal Pell in the video, this is an issue that is not addressed in the chapter 85. In fact, the synod rejected any clarification because less than a third of the bishops wanted to specific this very issue. Again, this was Cardinal Pell’s secretary that mentioned this.
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And here is his interview.

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/10/17/cardinal-pell-communion-for-divorced-and-remarried-not-majority-position/

As I mentioned, I highly doubt that Pope Francis would support something rejected by a majority of the bishops. And very much so if what he is proposing runs contrary to his two Predecessors teachings on the same subject.
 
gilliam said:
Too many people are focusing on communion; it is a distraction.
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Exactly. This Synod was supposed to focus on the family. Communion for the divorced/remarried is a tangent. We had a Synod on the Eucharist just a few synods ago. Surely, this isn’t somehow more urgent now than it was when the Eucharist was the main topic.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I think it will depend on where one lives and whom one talks to. But who knows better than the person you are confiding in what is in one’s heart. I know many Catholics who are divorced. The live in such a way that puts many Catholics to shame. I never understood why this sacrament is taken away when someone needs it the most. I do know the technical reason, of course, but it just seems too technical and not at all humane. Many of those who are divorced were not the ones who wanted to divorce in the first place
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I understand the technical reasoning too as to why the Sacrament is taken away but I have to say I largely agree with you on this. But then I admit I have empathy for those who may divorce due to adultery or abuse for instance. It’s just hard for me to walk in their shoes. But that’s just me. Peace.
 
johnnyc176 said:
Liberals back then thought for sure that the Church was going to change it’s teaching on contraception but in one of God’s surprises Pope Paul VI issued Humanae vitae which upheld the teaching of Jesus and His Church.
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And today how many catholics are on the pill?
 
_Abyssinia said:
If anybody is getting an impression that divorced and remarried persons can now undergo a period of discernment and receive Communion even if they are not living as brother and sister, your under the wrong impression, because that has not changed.
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I am looking for the quote from the Pope that says “The church will never allow divorce and remarried couples that havent gotten an annulment to attend communion.”

I just cant find it. I know he speaks some english, so I am sure its out there.
 
OriginalJS said:
Maybe, but many divorced and remarried are receiving anyway and nobody says a thing,
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It’s not for the Body of Christ (the church) to say “hey, you aren’t allowed to receive communion!” it’s for each and every person receiving the Eucharist to ask themselves if they are in good grace to receive. We need to be careful we do not do the judging. Instead, we should all do the loving. The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.
 
Good_Tidings said:
I think it will depend on where one lives and whom one talks to. But who knows better than the person you are confiding in what is in one’s heart. I know many Catholics who are divorced. The live in such a way that puts many Catholics to shame. I never understood why this sacrament is taken away when someone needs it the most. I do know the technical reason, of course, but it just seems too technical and not at all humane. Many of those who are divorced were not the ones who wanted to divorce in the first place
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The question is: how many of them have attempted to receive an annulment?

There are a large number of people who are divorced and REFUSE to attempt to receive an annulment. I’m sure that a number of these people may be able to receive an annulment if they simply go through the process.

The key here is to focus on teaching about teens about Catholic marriage, chastity, dating as discernment, divorce, annulments, dispensations, convalidations, and radical sanations.

We may have lost some people who we will never get back. We need to focus on future generations, so they learn more about marriage and have better preparation.
 
Brendan said:
Actually, I have yet to see a bishop declare that it is disciplinary, not doctrinal.

In that remarriage after divorce is adulterous ( doctrinal)
adultery is grave sin (doctrinal)
grave sin precludes one from presenting themselves for Holy Communion ( doctrinal)

Which is exactly what Cardinal Sarah claimed

Now how would you classify Pope St. John Paul II characterization union Marriage and Holy Communion being contradicted by divorce and remarriage?

Is that objective contradiction that +JPII speaks of due to discipline or doctrine?
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👍
 
On the part of these couples and their children, are the following invalid:
  • their intercessions
  • their evangelising
  • their works of mercy
i.e should these fruits, if they are willing, be “not wanted” on the part of you and me for the sake of good?

How far is “exclusion” meant to go - really?

How will they acquire faith to become open to sacraments in this area of their lives if we don’t catechise them to practise virtue in the power of the indwelling Jesus in other areas? Or has the crab only got one leg?
 
Vic_Taltrees_UK said:
On the part of these couples and their children, are the following invalid:
  • their intercessions
  • their evangelising
  • their works of mercy
i.e should these fruits, if they are willing, be “not wanted” on the part of you and me for the sake of good?

How far is “exclusion” meant to go - really?

How will they acquire faith to become open to sacraments in this area of their lives if we don’t catechise them to practise virtue in the power of the indwelling Jesus in other areas? Or has the crab only got one leg?
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With respect to the divorced and remarried, the only question of validity is the validity of their first marriage and the validity of their second marriage. No one is excluded from intercessions, evangelizing, and works of mercy.
 
808Catholic said:
It’s not for the Body of Christ (the church) to say “hey, you aren’t allowed to receive communion!” it’s for each and every person receiving the Eucharist to ask themselves if they are in good grace to receive. We need to be careful we do not do the judging. Instead, we should all do the loving. The Holy Spirit will take care of the rest.
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You are correct that the man in the pew should not be making this judgement for anyone else. But it is not just the person receiving the Eucharist who decides. The pastors, and in some cases the Bishop, also have a voice in who should not present themselves for Communion.
 
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