Syro Malabar Church Phoenix Arizona

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I wish to know what relationship the Akkara Kazhchakkal Holy Family Syro Malabar Church Phoenix Arizona has to with the larger four million strong established Syro Malabar Catholic Church in Kerala. From the information provided it is an autonomous American church (complete with an American flag portrayed as an icon in the church!) like many thousands of one -pastor Christian “denominations” aka churches in the US. Is the Syro Malabar Church in the US a separate American church, which has nothing to do with the church in Kerala?

syromalabaraz.org/
 
Mariamkutty,

I would like to know which Syro-Malabar parish you attend in Kerala, and if your pastor is aware of the disrespect and misinformation you spread about the Malabar Church on this forum. Why would you reply to a priest with such vitriolic language? Father has posted links to a new mission parish in Phoenix, AZ and you go on some rant about having an American flag??? What flag should a parish based in Phoenix, AZ, USA have? Canadian?

Did you bother to look through the parish photos? If you did, you would notice a photograph of the Bishop of Syro-Malabar Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle, His Grace Mar Jacob Angadiath. Is he the head of “an autonomous American church…” or a Bishop ordained by the Syro-Malabar Church and appointed by the Holy Synod to head its North American parishes?
 
Relax Mariamkutty.

I hope you are aware that even though Syro Malabar Church is a Major Archiepiscopal Sui Iuris Church, Rome has not yet granted full jurisdictional rights to SMC.

This is partly due to the internal fights between the Oriental and Latin lobby in Syro Malabar Church and due to the opposition of Latin rite Bishops in India. The Church has not yet recovered her Oriental traditions. We have been trying for full jurisdictional rights since 1960’s and latin rite in India had put lot of obstacles. Its a long story.

Currently Eleven eparchies are outside the proper territory of Syro Malabar Church. **They are directly under the Pope. Over them the Major Archbishop of Syro Malabar Church has only very limited authority. At the same time their bishops are members of the Syro-Malabar Bishops’ Synod. These dioceses are not suffragans of any of the Syro-Malabar arch eparchies but of the nearby Latin archdioceses. **

The eleven eparchies outside the proper territory are: Adilabad, Bijnor, Chanda, Gorakhpur, Jagdalpur, Kalyan, Rajkot, Sagar, Satna, Ujjain and St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago.

Holy Family Syro Malabar Church Phoenix Arizona is under the Syro Malabar Mission under the St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago of Syro Malabar Church.

St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago is an eparchy of Syro Malabar Church outside the proper jurisdiction, which is directly under Pope of which the Major Archbishop of Syro Malabar Church has very limited authority. The Bishop of St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago is a member of the Holy Synod of Syro Malabar Church.

They are part of the Holy Synod which takes decisions about the Syro Malabar Church and obey the decision of the Holy Synod unlike some other eparchies in the proper territory.

The priests in Syro Malabar St. Thomas Diocese in Chicago are doing a great job for the community. All the best wishes to them.Mariamkutty, Please talk to them nicely, if you are a Catholic or Non Catholic or Thomas Chrisitan or what ever you claim.

The diocese website- stthomasdiocese.org/history.htm
 
The Holy Family Syro Malabar Catholic Mission of Arizona was pioneered in 2006 by Chicago Bishop Angadiath, supported by Pastor/Priest Rev Fr.Mathews Munjanath. **The church was an outreach of Bible Temple in Phoenix, Gilbert Tucson under the apostolic oversight of Pastor Mathews Munjanath. ** Fr.Munjanath was also involved in international ministry of speakers, authors and ministers. Rev.Fr.Munjanath became known for the “DragonSlayer” New Generation youth seminars held across America from 2006 to 2009. Rev.Fr. Munjanath graduated in 1990 from Mysore University with a Bachelor’s degree in Religion.

The pastors and members of Holy Family Syro Malabar Catholic Mission have a confident vision of faith for compassionately impacting the immediate community, the greater Phoenix area, the northwest United States and other nations as the Holy Spirit directs. Ministry to nations has continued to increase with specific involvement in more than seventy nations. The pastors believe every year will bring an unfolding expression of a city within a city, a vision that includes youth and children’s outreaches, food and clothing distribution, ministry to the needy, facilities for compassionate care, training, education, recreation, shopping and more with daily ministry to people in need from all walks of life.

Holy Family Syro Malabar Catholic Mission of Arizona is a diverse congregation representing people from a variety of backgrounds, nations, races and ages. The Holy Family Syro Malabar Catholic Mission is an autonomous, self-governing local church established on the pattern of the New Testament early church. Using the Book of Acts as a blueprint, the church is structured with local ordained elders as well as apostolic relationship with other Christian leaders outside of the congregation. The church is affiliated with chicago bishop house with eastern right, where Pastor Munjanath is helping to provide fellowship, training and accountability for pastors and church leaders worldwide.

The Holy Family Syro Malabar Catholic Mission is known for its spirit of worship, prophetic preaching, generosity, faith in the goodness of God and warm Christian love. The Syro Malabar Catholic Mission began planting new churches in 1992 and continues with a vision that encompasses the metro region of Arizona, the nation’s Capital in DC, and other states in the USA and in cities and villages around the world as the Lord leads.

syromalabaraz.org/ (Ref: About Us)
 
SyroMalankara said:
Mariamkutty,

I would like to know which Syro-Malabar parish you attend in Kerala, and if your pastor is aware of the disrespect and misinformation you spread about the Malabar Church on this forum. Why would you reply to a priest with such vitriolic language? Father has posted links to a new mission parish in Phoenix, AZ and you go on some rant about having an American flag??? What flag should a parish based in Phoenix, AZ, USA have? Canadian?

Did you bother to look through the parish photos? If you did, you would notice a photograph of the Bishop of Syro-Malabar Eparchy of St. Thomas the Apostle, His Grace Mar Jacob Angadiath. Is he the head of “an autonomous American church…” or a Bishop ordained by the Syro-Malabar Church and appointed by the Holy Synod to head its North American parishes?
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Mr SyroMalankara, the Syro Malabar Churches in Kerala do not have an Indian flag put up as an icon inside churches. The church is supposed to have its origins in Kerala, remember? Never mind the Indian flag didn’t even exist when the ancient community of Christians on the Malabar Coast was under the Patriarch of Babylon, not even when the word Syro Malabar Church was coined for the separate church in 1923. So why should a church by the name Syro Malabar Church have an American flag inside the church, even if it happens to be located in the US? The last time I checked, the US Constitution has separation of church and state and there is no law in the land that requires all churches to have the American flag inside it as an icon or as an act of patriotism. Or am I understanding American Constitution and American law wrong?

And what do Christian churches have to do with political flags of any country within its holy sanctuary, unless of course the head of the church is also the head of state?

Could you please explain what “outreach of Bible Temple” and “Dragon Slayers New Generation Youth Seminars” mean?
 
SyroMalankara said:
Mariamkutty,

I would like to know which Syro-Malabar parish you attend in Kerala, and if your pastor is aware of the disrespect and misinformation you spread about the Malabar Church on this forum.
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Mr SyroMalankara, I do not expect people who read an American forum such as this to be naive and stupid as to believe what I write without using their own brains. So you should not worry that I use my freedom of expression to share what I think about the history of Christianity in Kerala from the perspective of a native and insider. Too little attention has been paid to the secular colonial history of Kerala that goes hand in hand with the history of Christianity since 1500.
 
I’m wondering why the name of the church is coming up as “Akkara Kazhchakal Holy Family” Syro Malabar Catholic Church Mission. “Akkara Kazhchakkal” is an American-Malayalam sitcom. The church is even selling tickets for the show! Checkout the homepage.
 
SyroMalankara said:
Mariamkutty, I would like to know which Syro-Malabar parish you attend in Kerala, and if your pastor is aware of the disrespect and misinformation you spread about the Malabar Church on this forum.
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Mr SyroMalankara, on page 55, post #816, of the thread titled, Syro Malabar Catholic Church in the Thrissurian Tradition, I posted a link to a new thread I started to review all comments, mine included. It was titled, Truth & Justice Commission for Syro Malabar Catholic Church. It is not my fault that the new thread did not meet eligibility criteria on this forum, hence the new thread was deleted by the moderators. But as you can see the thread meant to be reviewed is being read anyway, so my guess is that at least some people are reviewing the thread without posting any comments on this forum.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=289346&page=55

Why don’t you find out to which Syro MALANKARA church pjk123, LukaThomas, and BAVA faction church MathewJoseph belongs? Why do they give themselves as Syro Malabar Catholics when it doesn’t take rocket science to notice they are not?
 
I am from Syro Malabar Church.You can trace that easily.But your blind accusations made Me rethink why you are here for(and whether you are from SMC).Just to defame SMC.
 
Why don’t you find out to which Syro MALANKARA church pjk123, LukaThomas, and BAVA faction church MathewJoseph belongs? Why do they give themselves as Syro Malabar Catholics when it doesn’t take rocket science to notice they are not?

Dear mariamkutty
I am only a 24 year old college boy. I do not have any responsible positions in the church as I think you have. I am a syro malabar catholic from kottayam district. One thing is that I read Sathyadeepam and Sunday shalom regularly. I will give you evidences. After attending the conclave that elected Pope Benedict 16 may be in 2006, Major arch bishop made that statement. His article was in sathyadeepam. You check sathyadeepam 1 or 2 month from the conclave. Then major arch bishop of Syro malankara church. He was elected as major arch bishop and an interview was published in Sunday shalom just after his election. It was a full supplement. You check those shaloms. As I think you are a nun, and you have not noticed these articles is a shame to the entire syro malabar church. I am only a young boy and I noticed these points. But the thing is that scholars, fathers all hesitate to answer me on those quotes. When I ask a father to give me some explanation on that, they hesitate or they just change the subject. Remember, truth is always truth.

Again for your notice I give you those quotes and make a good research.
I will give the viewpoints of Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil, Major Arch bishop of Syro malabar catholic church,
Baselios Mor Cleemis, Major Arch bishop of syro malankara catholic church,
Archbishop Mar Joseph Powathil, strong man of Syro malabar catholic church.
What I deliver are exact statements from these bishops at the top level.

Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil says, "What is the authority of Rome? On what basis Rome is appointing bishops all over the world? From where it has got alll these powers? In the first centuries, there was a dispute between Rome and Antioch, who is head and superior."

**Baselios Mor Cleemis says, "According to Antiochean tradition, Patriarch of Antioch is the head of the overall Christian church and successor of Apostle Peter. His name is Ignatius. The second in rank is Catholicos. His name is Baselius. Mar Joseph Powathil presided over my election as major arch bishop.

Mar Joseph Powathil adviced me to be sincere and faithful to Antiochean tradition and Antiochean liturgy always."**

Dear mariamkutty,
These are words from top leaders of our church. So why we oppose adopting latin customs is that we are basically a syriac church and the most important point is that we have doubt on the Rome’s claim as St Peter’s see. Or it is not a doubt. From the words of 3 eminent persons above, what you get? Whatever be the case, we must give testimony to truth. We must be upholders of truth. I need not give explanation why Portuguese burned all the ancient syriac documents present in our church. Not only these, I will give you a statement from a latin cardinal.

The great American Archbishop James Cardinal Gibbons said, "Peter went to Antioch and established the church there and served as the bishop there. What is the authority of Rome?"
See Mariamkutty, the statements given are from the heads of Syro malabar catholic church and syro malankara catholic church. Any way they are 100 fold knowledgeful than you. So first you make a reaearch on these and give me an answer.
 
SyroMalankara- The priests and nun of Syro Malabar origin who work in latin rite has done harm to Syro Malabar Church than any good.They are completly latinised and lacks awareness about their mother church. Mariamkutty has screwed up her mind with kingdoms and regional politics along with her latin formation. I don’t know why she has chosen an International forum for this. She would have used some local forums for her propaganda. Anyways, they will take long time to get basics.By the time they realise, enough damage is done.

The best example is the street fights of priests and nuns of Ernakulam and Thrishur in 1990’s. It took many years for them to realise what they did. Then most of them publically apologised but damage was done by that time. Its a repeating story as these people has least awareness.

Most of the members of Diocese of Chicago are very used to not paying any penny to the Church. There is huge cry for dues and this habit they got from Kerala. In Kerala, most of the churches has properties which are donated by families long time back and church fund was easily generated using those and people generally don’t pay their dues. As immigrants, most of the members has this habit of not paying money. Finally for generating funds for building the Church in USA, the priests are forced to organize events and raise the money.
 
Mariamkutty- I do know you are beyond repair. There were people like you earlier and there may be in future also. Please dont put your screwed up mind in defaming Syro Malabar Church in an international forum. I think people wont be hesitant to launch a campaign against “false brothern” like you.
 
lukathomas said:
SyroMalankara- The priests and nun of Syro Malabar origin who work in latin rite has done harm to Syro Malabar Church than any good.They are completly latinised and lacks awareness about their mother church. Mariamkutty has screwed up her mind with kingdoms and regional politics along with her latin formation. I don’t know why she has chosen an International forum for this. She would have used some local forums for her propaganda. Anyways, they will take long time to get basics.By the time they realise, enough damage is done.
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LukaThomas, priests and nuns from Kerala provided missionaries for all Latin Rite missions outside Kerala in large numbers until about three decades ago when sufficient number of locals became priests and nuns. In Latin Rite missions there was no way of knowing who a Syrian Catholic was. You forget that the lay Syrian Catholics community were not affected by nuns and priests working in Latin Rite missions outside Kerala. In Kerala lay Syrian Catholics attended Syrian Catholic churches. So I don’t really get your point.

This line “completely Latinized” is touted constantly by those who picked up their Syriac Liturgy from the Middle East in the nineteenth century. Maybe the Syro Malabar Catholics are not really aware of that.

The United States is one great country as far as freedom of speech and expression and religion is concerned. Do you have a problem that I choose to express myself on a forum in such a country? And secular history of Kerala is vital to understanding the history of Christianity there. As for me personally, I have attended all of two years in a convent school and that too run by nuns of Franciscan Clarist Congregation (FCC). I was too young then to be latinized, whatever that means, especially since I attended a Syro Malabar Catholic Church on Sundays.
 
lukathomas said:
SyroMalankara- The priests and nun of Syro Malabar origin who work in latin rite has done harm to Syro Malabar Church than any good.They are completly latinised and lacks awareness about their mother church. Mariamkutty has screwed up her mind with kingdoms and regional politics along with her latin formation. I don’t know why she has chosen an International forum for this. She would have used some local forums for her propaganda. Anyways, they will take long time to get basics.By the time they realise, enough damage is done.

The best example is the street fights of priests and nuns of Ernakulam and Thrishur in 1990’s. It took many years for them to realise what they did. Then most of them publically apologised but damage was done by that time. Its a repeating story as these people has least awareness.
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LukaThomas, you have been writing malicious posts about Syro Malabar Catholic nuns and priests from Thrissur and Ernakulam archdiocese on this forum. It is they who should be launching a campaign against the likes of you for writing such lies. “Street fights of priests and nuns” ! Could you provide reliable information about the supposed street fights between nuns and priests?
 
lukathomas said:
Most of the members of Diocese of Chicago are very used to not paying any penny to the Church. There is huge cry for dues and this habit they got from Kerala. In Kerala, most of the churches has properties which are donated by families long time back and church fund was easily generated using those and people generally don’t pay their dues. As immigrants, most of the members has this habit of not paying money. Finally for generating funds for building the Church in USA, the priests are forced to organize events and raise the money.
Click to expand...
Unlike countries in Europe and elsewhere, where the rulers were Christians, Kerala (all of India) has had Hindu kings and a secular government, of united India with Hindu majority since independence in 1947. Parishioners have had to support priests and to fund building of churches in Kerala. Asking money for building churches, is called “Palli pani, Palli pani…kashu (money to build church, money to build church…).” Every parishioner has to pay monthly dues to the church for the services rendered by the parish priest. The churches therefore belong to the parishioners; it is not the private property of any priest who comes to serve in the parish.
 
Mariamkutty said:
LukaThomas, priests and nuns from Kerala provided missionaries for all Latin Rite missions outside Kerala in large numbers until about three decades ago when sufficient number of locals became priests and nuns. In Latin Rite missions there was no way of knowing who a Syrian Catholic was. You forget that the lay Syrian Catholics community were not affected by nuns and priests working in Latin Rite missions outside Kerala. In Kerala lay Syrian Catholics attended Syrian Catholic churches. So I don’t really get your point.
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Right from the arrival of Portuguese missionaries, we have provided missionaries for the expansion of latin rite in Kerala and in India. Do you know that in the early days of 16th century latin rite expanded in India using the missionary zeal of Thomas Christians who were trained in latin formation ?

We made them to the latin rite of today from three churches.But paid a heavy price for this. In return, the latin trained clergy of Saint Thomas Christian origin right from 16th century tried to impose latinisations on us. Our forefathers realizing this tactics, never allowed them to say Qurbana in our churches . In 16th and 17th centuries there were not allowed in our churches.

Gradually things has changed .These latinised people being obedient servants of their masters became our rulers.Your statement that lay Syrian Catholics community were not affected by nuns and priests working in Latin Rite missions outside Kerala is because of your ignorance. We have been victimized by these people who are completely latinised and does not know anything about their mother church with their propaganda and tactical latinisation activities. They are significant in numbers and with their latin formation they manipulate our rite.You can find their involvement in the problems in Syro Malabar Church.
 
The grandeur or the lack of it of churches in Kerala, which has not been influenced by funding from outside as a result of European missionaries working in any particular area, reflects the wealth of locals. In some instances the grandeur reflects the influence of a priest from the village or area who has influence in the church hierarchy and is therefore able to collect donations from elsewhere or channel more diocesan funds to his native parish. Another additional source of big income for churches has been in areas ( Kottayam-Pathanamthitta districts of erstwhile Travancore tops this list due to their early, great advantage in English education; it is not by accident that one rarely finds nuns or priests from Thrissur District overseas) which have sent out priests and nuns for work overseas. When educational institutions and hospitals are built with the funding, it serves as a continous source of additional income for the diocese/archdiocese.
 
Mariamkutty said:
This line “completely Latinized” is touted constantly by those who picked up their Syriac Liturgy from the Middle East in the nineteenth century. Maybe the Syro Malabar Catholics are not really aware of that.

The United States is one great country as far as freedom of speech and expression and religion is concerned. Do you have a problem that I choose to express myself on a forum in such a country? And secular history of Kerala is vital to understanding the history of Christianity there.
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There are very few people in the Church- i mean clergy who understands the Church, others are "false brothern’’ who shamelessly lavish and benefit on the autonomy and identity a plethora of Kathanars gained over the last 400 years. It is quite natural that they have not heard about many things. How could they be ?

Will full misrepresentation and manipulation does not come under definition of free speech in United States. If in doubt you may please check with an attorney.

You know absolutely nothing about historical research neither secular nor Thomas history. Do you know that in Syro Malabar Church hundreds of seminars were organized by Oriental Pontifical Institute Vadavathoor and Liturgical Research Center, Kakkanad and different eparchies ? Get your self at least acquainted with some basics before launching propaganda.
 
Which court is going to deal with the propaganda that has been touted for years that all St Thomas Christians left the communion with RCC during Coonan Cross Oath in the seventeenth century, which took place in the centre of Portuguese settlement in Mattancherry, Cochin?

Who is going to restore the truth about the fictional theory of mass migrations from Thrissur to South Kerala?

All the colonial powers, Portuguese, Dutch and British, along with all European missionaries who worked in Malabar Coast since 1500 must produce all documents to ascertain the whole truth about history of Christianity in Kerala. Natives who have not been affected by colonialists have their traditions and do not need approval from some colonial group, no matter which.
 
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