Syro Malabar girl marry Marthomite guy with out converting! PLEASE ANSWER!

[Vico]

Can a Roman Catholic boy marry Marthomite girl

It is possible with a dispensation from the Catholic Church for mixed marriage (since Marthomites are not Catholic).

 

[Aramis]

Can a Roman Catholic boy marry Marthomite girl

If they both have their bishops’ permissions, yes. The Marthomites, however, have certain theological issues, so there may be difficulties and/or preconditions.

 

[amitjohn27]

I don’t think that they will allow you to marry him in a catholic church. For that he needs to atleast say the Profession of faith(the creed) to do so. I don’t know whether there are any other requirements. As you are a catholic why don’t you try to convert him. You can pray for his conversion. It is a powerfull tool.

how do you expect a marthomite boy to be converted to catholic church? Marthoma Chruch is a reformed church, which do not belive in idol worship and other ungodly rituals.

 

[amitjohn27]

The question is certainly valid - didn’t one group within the Marthoma church separate and create the “St. Thomas Evangelical Fellowship” because they thought the Marthoma church was not reformed enough?

And what does that Mercy Seat point toward? The Throne of God! What is the Altar in the Malankara Tradition? It is called the “Thronos”! Of course it is worthy of veneration! Nothing beside the Holy Eucharist, which is Christ, is worthy of more veneration than the Holy, Life-giving Altar!

We do not venerate Saints INSTEAD of worshiping God, we venerate Saints in worship of God working in them. We are all called to be like that.

I know that, the point is that this rejection (iconoclasm) is of questionable orthodoxy.

And? Pentecostals, Baptists, evangelicals, and others say the same words, but their belief is contrary - such as the “symbolic” heresy.

The Marthoma church changed the prayers describing the Sacrifice upon the Altar (Christ) being offered to God the Father, into the people’s ‘sacrifice of praise’ being offered to the Father. The offering is completely different. The Marthoma church changed the offering from being Jesus Christ Himself, to the offering of praise.

all catholics say that the catholic church is guided by our lord and the true church. How come it is true while they do things which the holy Bible condemn like idol worship and all?. as per my Bible understanding the true church is the group of believers who truely beleive and follow jesus, irrespective of any denominations. I dont believe there is any significance for all these denominations, teachings and doctrines created by men. We must follow the holy Bible and Jesus without any prejudice or obsession created by any denomination. I understand Catholic disagree with this by saying protestant thought. How do catholics justify the idol worship? I will highly appreciate if somebody can clarrify this.

Thnx.

 

[Vico]

… How do catholics justify the idol worship? I will highly appreciate if somebody can clarrify this.

Thnx.

It would be best to read the statements from the Iconoclast period, such as the seventh ecumenical council. However a few ideas regarding images and worship are:

1. 
   *]The biblical commandment forbidding images of God has been superseded by the incarnation of Jesus, who, being the second person of the Trinity, is God incarnate in visible matter. So such images/statues are not depicting the invisible God, but God as He appeared in the flesh.
   *]Old testament evidence: God instructed Moses to make two golden statues of cherubin on the lid of the Ark of the Covenant according to Exodus 25:18-22, and God also told Moses to embroider the curtain which separated the Holy of Holies in the Tabernacle tent with cherubim Exodus 26:31.
   *]Pagan idols depict persons without substance or reality while icons depicted real persons. Also “all religious images not of our faith are idols; all images of our faith are icons to be venerated.” Such as in the Old Testament practice of only offering burnt sacrifices to God, and not to any other gods.

 

[malphono]

It would be best to read the statements from the Iconoclast period, such as the seventh ecumenical council. …

FYI, that user’s post is one of the most offensive things I’ve ever seen here. It’s clearly bait from a troll. I wouldn’t waste my time with it.

 

[amitjohn27]

FYI, that user’s post is one of the most offensive things I’ve ever seen here. It’s clearly bait from a troll. I wouldn’t waste my time with it.

Ultimate truth always sounds offensive

 

[Anjali]

I wanted some information when it comes to the rules of the Mar Thoma Church. If a man who is from the Mar Thoma faith and woman who is from the Catholic faith would like to get married without losing their rite to their respective churches, is it possible for a Mar Thoma wedding ceremony to be conducted together with the Catholic wedding ceremony at a Catholic church? In other words, is it possible for the Mar Thoma Achan to perform the marriage sacrament, along with the Catholic Monseigneur so that both parties will not lose their respective rite to their respective churches? The Catholic Church has already agreed for this, and I was wondering if the Mar Thoma Church would also agree. Thank You so much for taking the time to read my questions

 

[EagleWatch]

I wanted some information when it comes to the rules of the Mar Thoma Church. If a man who is from the Mar Thoma faith and woman who is from the Catholic faith would like to get married without losing their rite to their respective churches, is it possible for a Mar Thoma wedding ceremony to be conducted together with the Catholic wedding ceremony at a Catholic church? In other words, is it possible for the Mar Thoma Achan to perform the marriage sacrament, along with the Catholic Monseigneur so that both parties will not lose their respective rite to their respective churches? The Catholic Church has already agreed for this, and I was wondering if the Mar Thoma Church would also agree. Thank You so much for taking the time to read my questions

*I know a certain case of a boy from Marthoma Church wanted to marry an American girl from Baptist Church, where both wanted to retain their respective church identities during the wedding sermon, Marthoma Bishop has combined both rites and conducted a special marriage sermon for them. I think such arrangements are according to the Bishops discretion.

That is the case for the marriage. But after such marriage they have to join any one of the churches, either Marthoma Church or the Spouse’s Church. Traditionally it is expected the wife to join the Husband’s Church officially. Wife can still enjoy her church’s rites during her visit to her mother parishes. I hope it is the answer for your query.*

 

[rajun]

marthoma

church is born out of an action to restore the traditions which were there before the intrusion of catholics into the St Thomas Christian community, since the historians agree the fact that it is purely an Indian church unlike the catholic churches.the major difference between catholics and marthoma as of my knowledge as a historian is mar Thoma are more similar to protestants as there is no saints other than God to whom they pray.but for a catholic he has n number of saints with different powers like Hindu gods.

 

[rajun]

My understanding is that it is the Marthoma church’s influence on them. When the ministers of the Marthoma church are educated and trained only in Lutheran, protestant, and Calvinist seminaries, what more can be expected? I’ve never heard of Marthoma clergy studying in the Orthodox or Catholic graduate seminary, only protestant, why is that?

The term “reformed Orthodox” is an oxymoron. Orthodoxy (definition: right belief / correct worship) needs no reform. The Marthoma church is a reformed church with protestant faith, retaining stylistic elements of Syriac liturgical tradition. It is not Orthodox.

This is a common tactic of those who call themselves “reformers” and break away from their mother Church, they accuse the Church they separated from of “arguing over mere dogma and custom”, yet those who created a new church felt the ‘mere dogma and custom’ were big enough to create schism over. Why is stating the difference and pointing out how major they are hard to grasp? The fact is, those “futile”, “mere dogma and custom” are not minor issues at all, they go to the very heart of one’s Faith.

The Apostolic faith has always taught the authority of the Church, it is written in the very Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. No where in that Creed is it written, “I believe in the Holy Scriptures as final authority”. The fact is, Christians should not “believe in” the Bible, they should believe in Jesus and His Church, and subsequently believe (not in) the Bible - which flows from the faith of the Church, along with other teachings and practices which are not written in the Bible.

I believe Jesus CAN do anything He wishes, however, He has already provided for us the proper, normal, and ordinary means in which to confess. Jesus can act outside of those means if He so chooses because He is not bound by them, but that does not diminish our duty to follow the proper practice He has established.

what type of Christians are this MALANKARA catholics? as a historian I know the fact that they are funded and maintained by Roman catholic church, their major tasks is to steal sheeps from both orthodox and marthoma churches

 

[malphono]

If this topic is again of interest to anyone, it’s far better to start a new thread than to revive a thread that has been dormant for 18 months.

 

[rajun]

You have to ask your priest to write your bishop for a dispensation from the regular form - remember the Marthoma church is not Catholic or Orthodox, so you need the bishop’s permission. He may not give it if he feels it is not in your best interest.

Another option for you, if you and your future spouse are willing to compromise - the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church may be right for you - this is a Catholic Church, so you wouldn’t be leaving your faith, and it’s Liturgy is the same as the Malankara and Syrian Orthodox Liturgy (the Marthoma worship service is a protestantized version of that same Liturgy).

If you are in the United States, you would need to contact:

CHANCELLOR
Rev. Fr. Roy Joseph Kaduppil
372 South Prairie Avebury
Elmhurst, Illinois 60126-4020
Phone: 630-279-1383
Fax: 630-279-1479
kaduppilroy@yahoo.com

the best way of sheep stealing, are you not ashamed Mr syro MALANKARA? why should a marthomite join your church, which teaches to worship the idols?
try your common technique, offer the boy a huge sum of money,or a piece of land he will join you if he is from a poor family, as happening with lot of orthodox Christians.

 

[rajanmathews]

Being “one in Christ” and in full Communion are different things. The term “One in Christ” has no exact meaning, it means whatever the parties involved want it to mean. Per the Catholic Church, the Apostolic succession of the Marthoma Church is in SERIOUS question - as they have done exactly what the Anglicans did in the 16th Cent. regarding removal of prayers of sacrifice in regards to Eucharist and removal of the Sacrificial nature of the priest in ordination prayers. (The Catholic Church authoritatively and firmly finds Anglican orders null and void.)

As to the Orthodox Churches - generally, they hold the apostolic orders of any outside the faith to be in question. I would think that in every instance that you can look into, any Marthoma priest who converted to Orthodox (Malankara or Syriac) would be received as a layman and later ordained (not received with orders recognized).

The term “One in Christ” has no exact meaning" - this shows the narrow mindedness of syro malankara church, a break away group from orthodox church, who joined the roman rite only for its money and funds, will give examples -
India – $25,883
Syro-Malankara Eparchy, construct a parish church in Kallely Diocese of Pathnamthitta
India – $20,000
Syro-Malankara Eparchy, build Mar Ivanios Minor Seminary
Taken from thepapalfoundation.org/grants/recent-grants/
these are the recent grants your church obtained from rome . For making another air conditioned church . How are u explaining your apostolic succession, is it from st thomas or from st peter??

 

[rajanmathews]

Well, Toronto Marthoma Church and Chicago Marthoma Church are not saintly names… take of it what you will.

is Mar Thoma church - means st Thomas church isn’t enough?
Please don’t argue without valid proofs and truths.

 

[shonejo]

Malankara Marthoma syrian is not a protestent or anglican church it is a oriental syrian church founded by st thomas the apostle in AD52…it is valid some one commented that marthomites not have holy mass every sunday but in real marthomite celebrates holy mass every sunday…
Syro mlankara catholic church is derived from orthodox and marthoma christians when mar evanios bishop joined in catholic church…marthoma is more older and they are real st thomas syrian christians .

 

[curiousgirl11]

Mar Thoma is a Protestent Church(marthomites will refute this obviously!) mainly having Syrian Christian Followers.(it is real hard to find a unbiased article about marthomites not written by a pro-marthomite).still:
indianchristianity.org/marthoma.html

This church have a “external” look of traditional Eastern Rite like Jacobite/Orthodox Churches.

basically this church is made by anglican church missionaries influenced by basel mission - in Kerala state ,India.
the flow to new age cults from Syrian Christians is via this marthoma church basically in south Kerala,India. especially pathanamthitta district,parts of kottayam,quilon district etc.
the “flow” chart is like this:
jacobite/Orthodox ---->marthoma church/anglican/protestent—>csi/pentecostal/umpteen no.s of cults.

Coming to the OP:
In a Catholic way ,This thing is completely unacceptable obviously - you leaving your mother church.

the Solution is to have the marthomite boy join Syro-Malankara Catholic Church and have the catechism(brief) later to convert to catholicism later to be part of Syro-Malabar Church -the Mother Church guided by Our Lord.

PS:their families will have all kind of different church memberships most probably.and he may be from south kerala(thiruvalla/pathanamthitta) and that part of syrian christians are dispersed too much to pentecostal/csi/assembliesofgod/7thday adventists/Jehova Witness/etc … and almost all of these church members are very much against(violent) Syro-Malabar Church and it’s sister church Syro-Malankara Church(they mock it as reethu prasthanam ,how sick!).

May Jesus Guide You.Don’t Leave your Mother Church.save from brain-washing by the protestents(mar thoma church) ,you Please go ASAP to a SMC diocese ,ask help from a priest ,ask him to pray for you.

I think its extremely offensive that you think the Marthoma church brain washes their members. I am not marthoma, but a few of my friends are and they are extremely spiritually active in their walk with Christ. May Jesus guide YOU, to not be judgemental and to remember that God knows your heart and one day you two will have a nice little meeting about this Forum. Thank you have a great day :}