Tabernacle In The Church

[Eilish_Maura]

the fact that no laymen has to touch the sacraed vessels. The fact that the priest himself can put the sacraed vessels with whatever remaining blessed host in the tabernacle himself with no extra handling as is the norm (which has been demonstrated to you already) can only help the people understand the value there in. perhaps even return some of the lost reverence.

That is not an added value to the Mass.

 

[down_under]

Your insistence that I am wrong does not make it so.
I will continue to repeat what is truthful on this topic.

Leaving out part of what I have posted also does not make it so.

On the other hand you have produced nothing to support your position that the reserved Blessed Sacrament is one of the focuses of the mass or the requirement that the tabernacle should be within view of the altar.

now you are just being inflammatory. I have made my case, and you know I have. There has been a lot of church documentation backing it up you just refuse to listen.

 

[down_under]

That is not an added value to the Mass.

Who are you the Pope now? The church documents we have quoted to you over and over again all say the priest is suspose to return the sacred vessles himself. If you must have a lay person do it because the priest cannot leave the mass something must be worked out but it is primarily the priests duty. As has been demonstrated to you from church documents already. So YES this would add something to the mass ACCORDING TO THE CHURCH.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Who are you the Pope now? The church documents we have quoted to you over and over again all say the priest is suspose to return the sacred vessles himself. If you must have a lay person do it because the priest cannot leave the mass something must be worked out but it is primarily the priests duty. As has been demonstrated to you from church documents already. So YES this would add something to the mass ACCORDING TO THE CHURCH.

That particular procedure - which can easily be changed - does not add to the Mass. The recommendations for location of the tabernacle do not list this AND do not say the presence of the reserved Blessed Sacrament ‘adds to the Mass’.

Where do you read that it does?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

now you are just being inflammatory. I have made my case, and you know I have. There has been a lot of church documentation backing it up you just refuse to listen.

There has been nothing regarding the two items I noted.

 

[lizaanne]

On the other hand you have produced nothing to support your position that the reserved Blessed Sacrament is one of the focuses of the mass or the requirement that the tabernacle should be within view of the altar.

Let me ask the question this way.

We are at Mass. It is time for the Offertory. What should be our main focus at that point, the money? The hymn/song? The altar boys? The priest? The choir? What would be the appropriate focus at that point?

If Jesus is reserved in the tabernacle, then THERE our focus should be. Find me ANYTHING more important going on that we need to have our focus on at that point in the Mass.

You fail to realize that it is the SACRIFICE OF THE MASS - of which Jesus is the focus and purpose and meaning. Nothing else is more important - ever! Without Jesus there would BE NO sacrifice!! So if this is the case, why in the world would it ever be acceptable to put Him in another room - and I don’t care if I can see Him from around the corner. In the other room is in the other room.

How would you feel if at family dinners you were made to sit alone in the other room where others could see you but you were not part of what was going on? Don’t you think that Jesus feels the same way?

~Liza

 

[Eilish_Maura]

If Jesus is reserved in the tabernacle, then THERE our focus should be. Find me ANYTHING more important going on that we need to have our focus on at that point in the Mass.

Please show where there any instruction that we should be focused on the reserved Blessed Sacrament at any time in a Mass.

The Blessed Sacrament is NOT reserved to keep folks occupied during ‘down times’ of the Mass.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

How would you feel if at family dinners you were made to sit alone in the other room where others could see you but you were not part of what was going on? Don’t you think that Jesus feels the same way?

~Liza

Since it is the Church who does not instruct us to reserve the Blessed Sacrament for this kind of mind game you describe I think Jesus would find the whole analogy laughable.

 

[SD_Catholic]

An separate chapel can be (and has been) done successfully in churches meeting all these requirements AND still not be in the sanctuary or in the ‘middle of things’.

OK… you got me… highly visible, truly noble and prominent, and a worthy place of greatest honor in the Church…all refer to that seperate chapel you speak of.

An as for added value… I guess for myself and I would think many other Catholics… knowing that the real presence of Christ is there in that tabernacle actually means something special. Most churches can say that God is present in their building also, but how many religions can truly say he’s “really” present in their Church??? I can… and I’m proud to say it and I like to be reminded of it every time I’m there… and I also want non-Catholics to know it when they visit my Church for funerals or weddings. Maybe it will get them thinking or asking questions. To me that’s added value.

SD

 

[Eilish_Maura]

OK… you got me… highly visible, truly noble and prominent, and a worthy place of greatest honor in the Church…all refer to that seperate chapel you speak of.

An as for added value… I guess for myself and I would think many other Catholics… knowing that the real presence of Christ is there in that tabernacle actually means something special. Most churches can say that God is present in their building also, but how many religions can truly say he’s “really” present in their Church??? I can… and I’m proud to say it and I like to be reminded of it every time I’m there… and I also want non-Catholics to know it when they visit my Church for funerals or weddings. Maybe it will get them thinking or asking questions. To me that’s added value.

SD

The Blessed Sacrament is reserved for specific reasons - and being able to say God is ‘really present’ (as if it was some kind of bragging rights issue) is not one of them.

 

[lizaanne]

Please show where there any instruction that we should be focused on the reserved Blessed Sacrament at any time in a Mass.

The Blessed Sacrament is NOT reserved to keep folks occupied during ‘down times’ of the Mass.

You need explicit instructions to know to focus on Jesus?

Wow.

I can’t think of anything else to say. You are beyond reason. I feel so very sorry for you.

~Liza

 

[Eilish_Maura]

You need explicit instructions to know to focus on Jesus?

Wow.

I can’t think of anything else to say. You are beyond reason. I feel so very sorry for you.

~Liza

Do you think that is a reason the Church has for reserving the Blessed Sacrament - so some can have a visual prompt during mass?

 

[SD_Catholic]

The Blessed Sacrament is reserved for specific reasons - and being able to say God is ‘really present’ (as if it was some kind of bragging rights issue) is not one of them.

??? your determination to argue about everything concerning this issue is very frustrating… I think I’ll just pray because I’m pretty sure that would be more fruitful than trying to convince you of anything concerning this matter…

Lord God, please help us to be respectful in our discussions. When reflecting our opinions please help us to be mindful of the others thoughts as well… wether or not we agree with them… Eilish may God bless you in your journey of faith… Amen…

Peace,
SD

 

[CradleCath]

**now you are just being inflammatory. ** I have made my case, and you know I have. There has been a lot of church documentation backing it up you just refuse to listen.

YEP. That’s pretty much her M.O. in MANY threads. Best to just ignore. As you said, you’ve made your point.

IMO., the fact that the Tabernacle isn’t required to be on the main altar, doesn’t mean it **shouldn’t **be…except in Churches where tours are often given. The Basillica in St. Louis, is a good example of this, as is the Church within the Vatican. They are certainly not the norm, though.

As far as I’m concerned, when the Sacrifice of the Mass was demoted to a “communal supper” & a table replaced the altar, there was simply no place to put the Tabernacle. Thus, today, we find it in crying rooms, the sacristy…MANY Tabernacles were sent to the Sacristy during the time when so many Churches were demolished, & a good portion of them remain there.

BTW., the Church I now attend (I changed parishes because of the TLM. & I’ve never been happier or felt more at home), does not have the money to build an adoration chapel. We are too committed to the education given by our school & another chapel doesn’t stand a chance against new computers. But then, this parish didn’t have the money (or the will)to tear the Church apart after the council either. The result, we still have the Tabernacle on the main altar, the Communion rail still exists. Even before the Motu Proprio, I’m told that the Novus Ordo was celebrated at this Church, as Vatican II required it to be celebrated…with some Latin, beautiful Gregorian Chant from the choir & one could receive kneeling at the Communion rail or standing.

The documents of Vatican II were not very definitive re the gutting of our Churches, but the following line is included in the instructions given to the Bishops:

Each diocese should establish a commission on art and the liturgy which, when passing judgment on works of art or renovating an existing worship space, should have a dialogue with the congregation, and consult with “others who are especially expert.”

I don’t know about you, Down Under, but no one “dialogued” with me, my husband or ANY of my fellow parishioners before my previous parish church was wreckovated, high altar ripped out…communion rail, confessionals, stations of the cross were all removed…yet 10 yrs. ago, they spent millions of dollars trying to put it back like it was. They tried & it’s close…but not there.

Hope you’ll take a look at the fist Latin Mass offered in my city in 37 YEARS & the reception that followed. You can find them on our Pastor’s blog. He isn’t yet 40 yrs. old, but received from our revered Bishop Finn, permission to study with the good priests of the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest & he is doing a wonderful thing for our city. Please include him & our parish in your prayers. :

Scroll down to see our Tabernacle. It’s never left it’s home:
kcpriest.blogspot.com/

 

[kidderdoc]

Nothing in the link I provided says that the tabernacle is the main focus - especially not the main focus of the Mass.

All the comments are regarding a proper and suitable location with no specification beyond that. You will notice the remarks you quote and underline do NOT say the tabernacle needs to be near the altar.

After reading several of your comments, it seems you (and others) went off on a tangent quite early on. The original questioner never stated anything about Mass; merely questioning where the Tabernacle should be located physically in the church…period.

In recent years, the AmChurch has fallen very far away from reverence for the Blessed Sacrament and I see this removal of the Tabernacle to Joe’s-Pub-across-the-street-because-Jesus-is-our-buddy just one more slap in the face to the Real Presence. How does the priest access the Tabernacle during Mass…does he send an errand boy (oh excuse me…errand-person!) to jog on over to the separate building to fetch the Hosts and then to jog on back after Communion to replace the remaining Hosts?

Jesus deserves to be placed front and center in our hearts, in our lives and in our churches. Those who wish to tuck Him away ought to seriously ask themselves…*why? *Did the Jews debate where to place the Holy of Holies???..oy vay iz mir!!! :banghead:

I am deeply suspicious of people’s motives on removing the Tabernacle to an offsight place…reminds me of that old adage…*out of sight is out of mind!!! :twocents: *And why would anyone want to support that!

I am very grateful to attend a church where I do not have to worry myself with such destructive novelties or keeping a scorecard on the abuses and hence can focus merely on worshiping Jesus. :bowdown:

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Perhaps this thread should now be locked since it has been officially hijacked by TLM supporters (the TLM having NOTHING to do with the OP’s reason for the thread).

 

[Eric_Olsen]

The Blessed Sacrament is reserved for specific reasons - and being able to say God is ‘really present’ (as if it was some kind of bragging rights issue) is not one of them.

so you feel that God is not really present in the tabernacle?
What a shame.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

Then I do not understand why you addressed me and not the person who initiated this aspect.

BTW - because of health limitations I make a profound bow before the tabernacle - it is a reasonable accommodation.

Well thats one thing, but we have “religious directors” at church these days who seem to think that genuflecting went out with vatican II and we can bow like the protestants.

Again…things like this make me think why I bothered to come back to the RCC if the goal is to become more like the protestants and throw our Catholic identity out the door.

 

[Joannm]

Let me ask the question this way.

We are at Mass. It is time for the Offertory. What should be our main focus at that point, the money? The hymn/song? The altar boys? The priest? The choir? What would be the appropriate focus at that point?

If Jesus is reserved in the tabernacle, then THERE our focus should be. Find me ANYTHING more important going on that we need to have our focus on at that point in the Mass.

~Liza

During the Offertory and the Eucharistic Prayer our focus should be on the ALTAR where the sacrifice is taking place…not on the reserved Sacrament in the tabernacle. In fact, during the entire Mass our focus is not to be on the tabernacle. There is pleanty of time before and after mass to put your focus there.

 

[Kevirish01]

“during the entire Mass our focus is not to be on the tabernacle.”

Joann,

What would be wrong with, say during the readings of the Liturgy of the Word, meditating upon the readings all-the-while staring at the tabernacle asking our Lord to help me understand them? (I ask this with all charity and respect)

I cannot see a problem with this.

I agree with you that during the Liturgy of the Eucharist our focus should be the Altar (which *symbolizes *Christ by the way – CCC 1383)

But to say “during the entire Mass our focus is not to be on the tabernacle” seems a tad – um, inflexible. Can you expound?