Tableeghi Jamaat: No Gunpoint Sharia

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In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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If we give more importance on life hereafter , then it’s better to live in a Muslim majority country 🙂

In the name of freedom , we don’t have gay couple , gay parade , love child etc. TV Channels start with Quran recitation , they telecast call to prayers , programmes on religion are there almost daily . These remind us of God Almighty .

Some people are good because they are not getting chances to commit sin . There is a fear that they will be condemned / punished.
In other words, you go through intense brainwashing and indoctrination. You don’t seem allowed to do anything that is not related to Islam. God created rational beings, not programmed robots. If he’d wanted those, he wouldn’t have given us his greatest gift, free will, and a brain to reason with.

Vickie
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

If we give more importance on life hereafter , then it’s better to live in a Muslim majority country 🙂

In the name of freedom , we don’t have gay couple , gay parade , love child etc. TV Channels start with Quran recitation , they telecast call to prayers , programmes on religion are there almost daily . These remind us of God Almighty .

Some people are good because they are not getting chances to commit sin . There is a fear that they will be condemned / punished.
In the name of freedom? What freedom? You hang gays and stone women who have besmirched the “honor” of their family, even if they are rape victims. Muslims talk a lot about how religious they are, but in fact have no compassion or mercy for anyone.

Vickie
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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May be , but God is merciful and won’t punish if we wanted to commit a sin but did not .
thank you for calling Jesus a lier.

From Matt 5:27-28
27"You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Was Jesus wrong or is he lying?

We ARE judged for wanting to commit the sin IF WE COMMIT IT IN OUR THOUGHTS.

How about Matt 5:21-22
21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Choose your answer well. Is Jesus wrong or a lier?
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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… Is Jesus wrong or a lier?
No one is a Muslim if s/he thinks Jesus (pbuh) was a liar. Also , we don’t believe each verse of today’s Bible came from God.
 
No one is a Muslim if s/he thinks Jesus (pbuh) was a liar. Also , we don’t believe each verse of today’s Bible came from God.
Do you understand the word ‘inspired’?

It is the same with mohammed and your koran - you think it came from your god, but it had to be inspired in mohammed. Just like the Bible.

The problem that many have is that the contents of the koran seem to be more ‘inspired’ by someone other than any god of anyone recognizes. But, the one it does sound like is… Lucifer.
Luke 4: 5-8 - “and the devil, taking him [Jesus] up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them; for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” And Jesus answered, and said unto him, 'Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written [Deuteronomy 6: 13 - thou shalt fear the LORD thy God - NB - ‘LORD’ in the King James translation usually renders the Divine Name, YHWH] ‘Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve’.
Matthew 4: 8-10, “Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, and saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, 'Get thee hence, Satan; for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”
The Evil One offers Jesus absolute temporal power, imperium, IF he will ‘fall down and worship me [the Adversary]’. Jesus says No. Mohammed, on the other hand, essentially says Yes! Right on! and Mohammedans have been grovelling before the Evil One, the Adversary, ever since, selling their souls as slaves of allah, in order to obtain worldly power.
And to that devil’s bargain (which in fact is itself based on a flat-out lie, for according to Hebrew theology, it is YHWH who has the last word, raising up and casting down kings and empires, as we see in the story of Babel, and of the Exodus), other words from the Gospels apply: “what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Matt 16: 26), or Mark 8: 37 - “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”, Luke 9: 23 - “for what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away”?
 
No one is a Muslim if s/he thinks Jesus (pbuh) was a liar. Also , we don’t believe each verse of today’s Bible came from God.
I just realized how convenient this is for muslims then. They have no problem with the message from God being so different - like night (the moon) and day (the Light of the World). If they keep telling themselves that it wasn’t inspired by God then they can just carry on in any fashion that they want - since it is all allowed in the koran/islam.

Do you realize that when you face your Maker all the excuses in the world won’t be accepted?

In fact, the koran itself says to read the Bible because it is the ‘truth’.

surah 10:94 Basically, it is telling the muslims to read the Bible - the ‘books before them’. He even says that it is ‘truth from our Lord’
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

No one is a Muslim if s/he thinks Jesus (pbuh) was a liar. Also , we don’t believe each verse of today’s Bible came from God.
Sorry, but that is not acceptable.

A Muslim cannot think that Jesus lied, yet the entire faith is based on Jesus being a lier. Jesus said that he would be crucified and die. Jesus said that he was crucified and did nie. Muhammed said that he was not crucified and did not die.

Further, you cannot prove that these words of Jesus were not his. Saying that the parts that show Islam to be wrong were corrupted does not prove anything at all.
 
I agree. This is purely a political maneuver and nothing more.
One might consider examining this point, if the Tableeghi Jamaat weren’t an organization that does not involve itself in politics in the first place. And that fact points to the weakness of algebra’s claims.
 
Sorry, but that is not acceptable.

A Muslim cannot think that Jesus lied, yet the entire faith is based on Jesus being a lier. Jesus said that he would be crucified and die. Jesus said that he was crucified and did nie. Muhammed said that he was not crucified and did not die.

Further, you cannot prove that these words of Jesus were not his. Saying that the parts that show Islam to be wrong were corrupted does not prove anything at all.
That’s not true at all. Muslims don’t think that Jesus was a liar. Muslims think Christians believe Jesus said things he never actually said.

The only one who can prove anything on the matter is God, so as I’ve said before, I’ll be trusting His Word.
 
That’s not true at all. Muslims don’t think that Jesus was a liar. Muslims think Christians believe Jesus said things he never actually said.

The only one who can prove anything on the matter is God, so as I’ve said before, I’ll be trusting His Word.
Wonderful!! Jesus IS the Word of God!
 
One might consider examining this point, if the Tableeghi Jamaat weren’t an organization that** does not involve itself in politics** in the first place. And that fact points to the weakness of algebra’s claims.
They may have worked hard to appear that way, but not all accounts reveal the same facade.

meforum.org/686/tablighi-jamaat-jihads-stealthy-legions

the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat’s façade. Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent positions.[4] For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan’s chief intelligence agency. When Benazir Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in 1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organization.[5] Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat’s apolitical characterization derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to be legitimate. They may not become actively involved in internal politics or disputes over local issues, but, from a philosophical and transnational perspective, the Tablighi Jamaat’s millenarian philosophy is very political indeed. According to the French Tablighi expert Marc Gaborieau, its ultimate objective is nothing short of a “planned conquest of the world” in the spirit of jihad.[6]
 
They may have worked hard to appear that way, but not all accounts reveal the same facade.

meforum.org/686/tablighi-jamaat-jihads-stealthy-legions

the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat’s façade. Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent positions.[4] For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan’s chief intelligence agency. When Benazir Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in 1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organization.[5] Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat’s apolitical characterization derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to be legitimate. They may not become actively involved in internal politics or disputes over local issues, but, from a philosophical and transnational perspective, the Tablighi Jamaat’s millenarian philosophy is very political indeed. According to the French Tablighi expert Marc Gaborieau, its ultimate objective is nothing short of a “planned conquest of the world” in the spirit of jihad.[6]
What do you know about the Tableeghi Jamaat? It’s not at all a political organization and it doesn’t interfere as an organization in politics.

Because some people who were part of it decide to get into politics does not contradict that statement at all.

Maybe you should check out the wikipedia article on it. 🤷
 
What do you know about the Tableeghi Jamaat? It’s not at all a political organization and it doesn’t interfere as an organization in politics.

Because some people who were part of it decide to get into politics does not contradict that statement at all.

Maybe you should check out the wikipedia article on it. 🤷
Right because the source I gave and actions to the contrary can’t be trusted.

They may not be organized under a political mission, but the have political goals and have aligned themselves with political action, and in my book that makes them political. In fact, just put Tableeghi Jamaat (alt spelling) into a google search and see what you bring up.

And in any case you have yourself a catch 22 in claiming they are not ‘political’ because they are Muslims and in Islam you are very proud of how it is a complete way of life, including and very important, political.

So to say that they are not a political group (meaning they would never use politics to further their personal agenda…Islam) is a bit duplicitous.
 
Right because the source I gave and actions to the contrary can’t be trusted.

They may not be organized under a political mission, but the have political goals and have aligned themselves with political action, and in my book that makes them political. In fact, just put Tableeghi Jamaat (alt spelling) into a google search and see what you bring up.

And in any case you have yourself a catch 22 in claiming they are not ‘political’ because they are Muslims and in Islam you are very proud of how it is a complete way of life, including and very important, political.

So to say that they are not a political group (meaning they would never use politics to further their personal agenda…Islam) is a bit duplicitous.
Did you know that before Islam was ever implemented at the state or city level, it was practiced under severe persecution for 13 years in Mecca. The Muslims were being tortured and killed, boycotted even, and they didn’t fight, didn’t really put up any resistance. They fled if they could afford it, but if not they just stayed there, preaching. Peacefully.

That’s what the tableeghi jamaat does. They understand that stage of da’wah, that Islam first needs to be implemented by individuals, and that people need to start following Islam on their own, starting with their obligations, starting with prayer.

Now, I think that’s pretty apolitical, don’t you? Just reminding people to pray?

Not trying to pass laws, lobby lawmakers or judges, or bribe public officials. They don’t raise money for political organizations, they don’t participate in the political process at all.
 
One might consider examining this point, if the Tableeghi Jamaat weren’t an organization that does not involve itself in politics in the first place. And that fact points to the weakness of algebra’s claims.
Wrong!

Tableeghi Jamaat was a movement started at the time that the subcontinent of south asia was partitioned.

The movement was started to islamicize the muslim polulation, so that they would be receptive to the idea of a muslim state (pakistan).

So whilst they do not necessarily have political ambitions, they were very much the instruments of political forces.

In fact in pakistan members of the jamaat have strong political ties as well.
**
However their main thrust is to islamicize subcontinent muslims.**
 
Did you know that before Islam was ever implemented at the state or city level, it was practiced under severe persecution for 13 years in Mecca. The Muslims were being tortured and killed, boycotted even, and they didn’t fight, didn’t really put up any resistance. They fled if they could afford it, but if not they just stayed there, preaching. Peacefully.

That’s what the tableeghi jamaat does. They understand that stage of da’wah, that Islam first needs to be implemented by individuals, and that people need to start following Islam on their own, starting with their obligations, starting with prayer.

Now, I think that’s pretty apolitical, don’t you? Just reminding people to pray?

Not trying to pass laws, lobby lawmakers or judges, or bribe public officials. They don’t raise money for political organizations, they don’t participate in the political process at all.
And I cannot let the fairy tale of mohammed and his few followers in Mecca go without showing that even in islam’s own texts - this was not true. mohammed was the one who was the harasser of others. This continual fabrication of what happened in Mecca is hogwash.

#1. I think they need to get over it
#2. They won’t because ‘forgiveness’ is not a part of islam, but for 1400 years we have to hear this continual whining about a fabrication.

he was a pill’ to people and the elders went to mohammed’s uncle to ask him to stop mohammed from behaving so poorly. These following hadiths show that mohammed’s assertions about his being treated poorly was in fact the opposite and mohammed was the one who behaved poorly.

Ishaq:119, Tabari VI:93, 95-96

Tabari VI:93 “The Quraysh went to Abu Talib and said, ‘Your nephew [Muhammad] has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values, and told us that our forefathers were misguided [and burning in hell]. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are as opposed to him as we are.’ They said, ‘We asked you to forbid your nephew from attacking us, but you did nothing. By Allah, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values, and this abuse of our gods.’ This breach and enmity with his tribe weighed heavily on Talib. ‘Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god.’”

Tabari VI:95 “Abu Talib sent for Muhammad. ‘Nephew, here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe. They have asked for justice against you. You should desist from reviling their gods and they will leave you to your god.’”

Tabari VI:96 “Abu Talib said to Muhammad, ‘Nephew, how is it that your tribe is complaining of you and claiming that you are reviling their gods and saying this, that, and the other?’ The Messenger said, 'I want them to utter one saying. If they say it, the Arabs will submit to them and the non-Arabs will pay the jizyah [submission tax] to them.”
 
Maybe you should check out the wikipedia article on it. 🤷
I dont need that I have the source in my home.

Even though my wife is not desi (ethnically) she has lived in the sub-continent.

I can assure the jamaat has deep political ties.
 
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