Take a minute to introduce yourself before Mass begins

[centurionguard]

In the End I think its up to the individual Catholic how they want to give the Peace of Christ or be Greeted at the Church Doors.

For myself in both instances I prefer a humble nod of acknowledgment

Seems to me in both cases there are a lot of Catholics who exuberantly show a display of more than both rituals are truly supposed to symbolize.

Peace
Chris

 

[Tigg]

No wonder so many protestants are turned off the true faith if this is how we treat each other!

Yes, mass is supposed to be about God, but you really think God would want us to ignore the people celebrating it next to us? Brothers and sisters in Christ, the family of God, what kind of family doesn’t even think to say hi to one another? How utterly snooty, not to mention rude.

That would be most unfortunate for some to think others rude merely because they are trying to prepare their hearts for something that transcends politeness. I blame some of it on lack of catechesis; that mystagogy which would enhance and deepen our understanding of the wondrous event in which we are about to participate.

 

[gonefishing]

I’m new to the site. I was raised Catholic and have only recently (in the past year) returned to the church.

 

[ishii]

I visited a Church the other day and the music minister asked us to introduce ourselves to our neighbors nearby us. Now sometimes I pray before Mass. What if I had been kneeling and praying? That would have been kind of intrusive because everyone stood up and started talking.

The church I regularly attend has a definite line of demarcation between the vestibule and the church itself. In the vestibule there is some chatting (quiet chatting) but once you are in the inner part of the church there is silent reverence. This is the case at all times - not just during mass times. Not so at the other churches I sometimes attend due to schedule conflicts: there is loud rehearsing of music next to the altar, people speak in loud voices. Even in the vestibule where people line up for confession there are people milling about talking in loud voices seemingly oblivious to the penitents.

I totally agree with the bulk of the comments on this: introducing yourself before mass is disruptive and goes against a quiet preparation for what is coming up in mass. I would even extend this to the shaking of hands at the kiss of peace: it is disruptive and feeds into a kind of hardy har har backslapping, laughing “this is all about fellowship” protestant style of worship. I remember a priest years ago who relegated the kiss of peace to the end of mass, he would say "the mass is ended - “peace” and everyone would shake hands. That, to me, was more appropriate. In Japan there is no hand-shaking - all you do for the kiss of peace is put your own hands together and bow slightly to the person on either side of you and say “shu no heiwa”. It is over very quickly and the rest of the mass commences without any disruptions. There was always gathering after mass to socialize.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I’m new to the site. I was raised Catholic and have only recently (in the past year) returned to the church.

Welcome and God bless you! I hope you enjoy the site with all it has to offer.

Ishii

 

[centurionguard]

The church I regularly attend has a definite line of demarcation between the vestibule and the church itself. In the vestibule there is some chatting (quiet chatting) but once you are in the inner part of the church there is silent reverence. This is the case at all times - not just during mass times. Not so at the other churches I sometimes attend due to schedule conflicts: there is loud rehearsing of music next to the altar, people speak in loud voices. Even in the vestibule where people line up for confession there are people milling about talking in loud voices seemingly oblivious to the penitents.

I totally agree with the bulk of the comments on this: introducing yourself before mass is disruptive and goes against a quiet preparation for what is coming up in mass. I would even extend this to the shaking of hands at the kiss of peace: it is disruptive and feeds into a kind of hardy har har backslapping, laughing “this is all about fellowship” protestant style of worship. I remember a priest years ago who relegated the kiss of peace to the end of mass, he would say "the mass is ended - “peace” and everyone would shake hands. That, to me, was more appropriate. In Japan there is no hand-shaking - all you do for the kiss of peace is put your own hands together and bow slightly to the person on either side of you and say “shu no heiwa”. It is over very quickly and the rest of the mass commences without any disruptions. There was always gathering after mass to socialize.

Ishii

BEST POST I’VE SEEN IN THIS ENTIRE DISCUSSION

Thank You!

Peace
Chris

 

[ishii]

Thank You!

Peace
Chris

Thank you, centurionguard.

Ishii

 

[FAB]

I breifly scanned the different post.
What seems to be missing with those who believe there should be silence before the celbration for people to be in quiet preparation is true, but there is a big but here, this is a communal celebration and some Parishes including mine, encourage our people not to introduce themselves, but to great each other, as Jesus would, this is done even before the opening song is introduced, so it is outside the liturgy of the mass.
What we found that at the kiss of peace, there is much less “socializing”. It also then sets the proper understanding that this is a community celebration, not private and one in which all are called into participation.

 

[centurionguard]

I briefly scanned the different post.
What seems to be missing with those who believe there should be silence before the celebration for people to be in quiet preparation is true, but there is a big but here, this is a communal celebration and some Parishes including mine, encourage our people not to introduce themselves, but to great each other, as Jesus would, this is done even before the opening song is introduced, so it is outside the liturgy of the mass.
What we found that at the kiss of peace, there is much less “socializing”. It also then sets the proper understanding that this is a community celebration, not private and one in which all are called into participation.

Some priests in parishes (“not mine”) after the Our Father don’t like to break up the centralization and focus of the Eucharistic Liturgy. Having the Peace or Kiss of Christ in the middle of the Eucharistic Liturgy does in effect cause a loss of focus of Who it is Humbly Present for our sake on the Altar.

Now I know people will make re-directions all around this focused point.
But to me if one is in Adoration before the Holy Presence of Christ in the Monstrance does one break their focus and adoration to wish others a symbol of peace?

The good book Ecclesiastes 3:1-15 states There’s a Time and Place for Everything.

I would certainly like the idea of wishing everyone near me at the end of Mass the Peace of Christ.

Peace
Chris

 

[FAB]

Some priests in parishes (“not mine”) after the Our Father don’t like to break up the centralization and focus of the Eucharistic Liturgy. Having the Peace or Kiss of Christ in the middle of the Eucharistic Liturgy does in effect cause a loss of focus of Who it is Humbly Present for our sake on the Altar.

Now I know people will make re-directions all around this focused point.
But to me if one is in Adoration before the Holy Presence of Christ in the Monstrance does one break their focus and adoration to wish others a symbol of peace?

The good book Ecclesiastes 3:1-15 states There’s a Time and Place for Everything.

I would certainly like the idea of wishing everyone near me at the end of Mass the Peace of Christ.

Peace
Chris

There are theologians and liturgist on both sides of the fence to when the kiss of peace should be done. There are those that believe it interrupts the focus, there are others that see it as part of the communial act of recieving the eucharcist. A visable sign that we are all part of the body of Christ who share in this sacraficial meal. I fall on the latter aurgument.

 

[Cat]

Maybe I’m missing something here. If so, point it out, please.

But it seems to me that the Kiss of Peace, Sign of Peace, or whatever you call it, is not optional. It’s part of the Liturgy in the OF Mass, right?

What you do during this time can vary. Some people just nod/smile at their brothers and sisters. Others shake hands and offer the Peace of Christ. Others do more, sometimes perhaps going overboard.

But I don’t think we have the option of skipping this part of the liturgy, do we? The Church has made this part of the liturgy (it’s one of the most ancient parts of the Mass), and it seems to me to be unseemly for us to be talking about it as though it is a distraction. Why would Holy Mother Church include something in the liturgy that would distract us from wholly experiencing the delights of the Mass?

Rather, what I think we need to do is try hard to understand why Holy Mother Church includes the Sign of Peace in the liturgy of the Mass, at the time that it is done, and try to make use of that part of the Mass to grow in Christ and become closer to Him and His Church and stronger in our faith.

I think we all need to trust that the Church is correct and wiser than we are. .

 

[PPeterson]

I’m not a huge fan of greeting people at the beginning of mass because I’m socially awkward around strangers. I do try avoid making up contrived, pat myself on the back because I’m so holy excuses for this though.

 

[Cat]

It seems to me that in the Bible and other sacred writings that it is always the burden of the Christian who is STRONGER in the faith to help the WEAKER brother to become stronger.

It is not the burden of the WEAKER brother to somehow raise themselves up to a higher level of faith. The STRONGER brother is supposed to help them.

The first letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians is a good letter to read, especially Chapter 8. Indeed, St. Paul himself demonstrates what he is talking about, as he, the stronger Christian, is writing this letter to HELP the WEAKER Christians to grow up and get stronger.

Does anyone disagree with this and have some documents to back up your opinion?

That being said, it seems to me that in regards to behavior and decorum in the church building, especially before, during, and after Mass, it is up to all who are STRONG in the faith to help those who are WEAK in the faith to grow up and get strong. Specifically, this means that those who consider themselves “strong Christians” should not expect the weak Christians to simply “behave themselves,” but they should do whatever they can to help the weak Christians to learn what the appropriate behavior is before, during, and after Mass.

Now how can that be done? Some on this thread would say that the strong Christian should speak up and correct the weak Christian right there in the nave.

I am not so sure this is the best way. After all, more than likely, the weak Christian has no idea who is speaking to him/her. He doesn’t know that you are a strong, faithful Christian with a lot of knowledge of the Lord and love for the Holy Mass. The weak Christian has no way of knowing this–to him/her, you might be a crank, or someone who has no idea what you are talking about. After all, it is likely that the weak Christian was taught wrongly by someone that he/she thought knew the correct teachings about church behavior; e.g., a wayward lay person, a liberal religious or cleric, or perhaps his/her parents who were weak in their own faith and passed on their incorrect teachings to their progeny.

In my opinion, a really good guide that could help strong Christians “lift up” weak Christians and teach them to be strong in their faith is found in St. Paul’s first letter to his “son in the faith” and fellow priest, Timothy. St. Paul admonishes his young priest to “model” good behavior to those beneath him. He also advised Timothy that the older women should model good behavior to the younger women.

St. Paul writes another letter to another young priest, Titus, and tells him the same thing. This letter is even more specific, in that it talks about not only modeling, but TEACHING the faith.

When you read these letters, you get the definite feeling that St. Paul isn’t just talking about modeling from afar. You get the feeling that those who are strong in the faith are supposed to become close friends with those who are weaker. Titus 2: 4 & 5 tells older women to “encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, subject to their own husbands…”

Yikes! I am an older woman (almost 54), and I would never tell a younger woman that kind of specific teaching unless I knew her well! That’s a lot of personal teaching there!

So what I’m trying to say here is that if we want improper behavior before/during/after Mass to stop, those who are strong in the faith need to get to know the weaker Christians who are most annoying to them. They need to befriend these Christians, earn their trust and love, and then gently but firmly teach them the right things about the Catholic Church and respect for the Lord Jesus.

Of course it’s easier to merely speak up and rebuke someone. But that’s not what the Bible teaches in regards to helping our brothers and sisters grow strong in the faith and the love of the Lord and each other. The Bible urges us to take a “higher road” and take the time to develop relationships, build trust, and help others.

IMO, if all those strong Christians who want peace and quiet in the nave would try this approach instead of simply stewing about the “distractions,” within a few years, we would see silence and respect before, during, and after the Mass.

But if we continue to do things the human way and just fret and then rebuke, I think we’ll continue to see the same old noise and confusion.

Does all this make sense?

 

[happymommy]

It seems to me that in the Bible and other sacred writings that it is always the burden of the Christian who is STRONGER in the faith to help the WEAKER brother to become stronger.

It is not the burden of the WEAKER brother to somehow raise themselves up to a higher level of faith. The STRONGER brother is supposed to help them.

The first letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians is a good letter to read, especially Chapter 8. Indeed, St. Paul himself demonstrates what he is talking about, as he, the stronger Christian, is writing this letter to HELP the WEAKER Christians to grow up and get stronger.

Does anyone disagree with this and have some documents to back up your opinion?

That being said, it seems to me that in regards to behavior and decorum in the church building, especially before, during, and after Mass, it is up to all who are STRONG in the faith to help those who are WEAK in the faith to grow up and get strong. Specifically, this means that those who consider themselves “strong Christians” should not expect the weak Christians to simply “behave themselves,” but they should do whatever they can to help the weak Christians to learn what the appropriate behavior is before, during, and after Mass.

Now how can that be done? Some on this thread would say that the strong Christian should speak up and correct the weak Christian right there in the nave.

I am not so sure this is the best way. After all, more than likely, the weak Christian has no idea who is speaking to him/her. He doesn’t know that you are a strong, faithful Christian with a lot of knowledge of the Lord and love for the Holy Mass. The weak Christian has no way of knowing this–to him/her, you might be a crank, or someone who has no idea what you are talking about. After all, it is likely that the weak Christian was taught wrongly by someone that he/she thought knew the correct teachings about church behavior; e.g., a wayward lay person, a liberal religious or cleric, or perhaps his/her parents who were weak in their own faith and passed on their incorrect teachings to their progeny.

In my opinion, a really good guide that could help strong Christians “lift up” weak Christians and teach them to be strong in their faith is found in St. Paul’s first letter to his “son in the faith” and fellow priest, Timothy. St. Paul admonishes his young priest to “model” good behavior to those beneath him. He also advised Timothy that the older women should model good behavior to the younger women.

St. Paul writes another letter to another young priest, Titus, and tells him the same thing. This letter is even more specific, in that it talks about not only modeling, but TEACHING the faith.

When you read these letters, you get the definite feeling that St. Paul isn’t just talking about modeling from afar. You get the feeling that those who are strong in the faith are supposed to become close friends with those who are weaker. Titus 2: 4 & 5 tells older women to “encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, subject to their own husbands…”

Yikes! I am an older woman (almost 54), and I would never tell a younger woman that kind of specific teaching unless I knew her well! That’s a lot of personal teaching there!

So what I’m trying to say here is that if we want improper behavior before/during/after Mass to stop, those who are strong in the faith need to get to know the weaker Christians who are most annoying to them. They need to befriend these Christians, earn their trust and love, and then gently but firmly teach them the right things about the Catholic Church and respect for the Lord Jesus.

Of course it’s easier to merely speak up and rebuke someone. But that’s not what the Bible teaches in regards to helping our brothers and sisters grow strong in the faith and the love of the Lord and each other. The Bible urges us to take a “higher road” and take the time to develop relationships, build trust, and help others.

IMO, if all those strong Christians who want peace and quiet in the nave would try this approach instead of simply stewing about the “distractions,” within a few years, we would see silence and respect before, during, and after the Mass.

But if we continue to do things the human way and just fret and then rebuke, I think we’ll continue to see the same old noise and confusion.

Does all this make sense?

Makes perfect sense! Thank you!

 

[Corki]

Maybe I’m missing something here. If so, point it out, please.

But it seems to me that the Kiss of Peace, Sign of Peace, or whatever you call it, is not optional. It’s part of the Liturgy in the OF Mass, right?

That’s not exactly correct.

The priest’s, “The peace of the Lord be with you always” and the congregation’s “And also with you” are required.

The next part, where the priest invites us to share with each other a sign of peace is entirely optional.

But I don’t think we have the option of skipping this part of the liturgy, do we? The Church has made this part of the liturgy (it’s one of the most ancient parts of the Mass), and it seems to me to be unseemly for us to be talking about it as though it is a distraction. Why would Holy Mother Church include something in the liturgy that would distract us from wholly experiencing the delights of the Mass?

We don’t have the option of skipping this part of the liturgy but the priest has the option.

In my own parish, we did not have the shared sign of peace for many years. It had gotten out of hand with people going up the aisles and it going on too long. After a few warnings, Father just started skipping that section, as is his option. A few months ago, he reintroduced it. The last few weeks, he has prefaced it with a reminder to share the sign of peace quietly and reverently. My guess is that if people don’t heed his reminder, it will go away again.

 

[centurionguard]

That’s not exactly correct.

The priest’s, “The peace of the Lord be with you always” and the congregation’s “And also with you” are required.

The next part, where the priest invites us to share with each other a sign of peace is entirely optional.

We don’t have the option of skipping this part of the liturgy but the priest has the option.

In my own parish, we did not have the shared sign of peace for many years. It had gotten out of hand with people going up the aisles and it going on too long. After a few warnings, Father just started skipping that section, as is his option. A few months ago, he reintroduced it. The last few weeks, he has prefaced it with a reminder to share the sign of peace quietly and reverently. My guess is that if people don’t heed his reminder, it will go away again.

The Rite of Peace can get somewhat confusing to some but it is as you have said above.

davidmacd.com/catholic/catholic_mass_full_text.htm#peace

Sign of Peace

Comment: Congregation remains standing

P: Lord Jesus Christ, you said to your apostles: I leave you peace, my peace I give you. Look not on our sins, but on the faith of your Church, and grant us the peace and unity of your kingdom where you live for ever and ever.

C: Amen.

P: The peace of the Lord be with you always.

C: And also with you.

P: Let us offer each other the sign of peace. (note: the priest might omit this and skip directly to the breaking of bread.)

Comment: If the priest says “Let us offer each other the sign of peace.” The congregation turns to those near them and shakes hands or hugs them of some other appropriate gesture. The priest should not leave the sanctuary to greet people unless it is an extraordinary situation, such as a funeral Mass or a Mass with particular dignitaries present.

In the USCCB G.I.R.M.

It states as following

The Rite of Peace
82. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and
for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and
mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in
accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each
person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner

Here’s another interesting article on the Rite of Peace:

Mass Under a Microscope: The Rite of Peace

catholicsensibility.wordpress.com/2005/02/18/110874862837871911/

Peace
Chris

 

[centurionguard]

Some Catholics too as already mentioned in this thread don’t liked to be touched for various valid reasons

By the same token they shouldn’t be judged or snubbed at either.

 

[the_phoenix]

Hi Cat,

Oh, the stories I could tell you!

But to answer your question:

Far more important than my ability to pray before or after Mass is the proper respect due to Jesus, Our Eucharistic Lord truly present in the tabernacle.

My goal is to, when prompted to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit, speak out in order to achieve a holy … and peaceful … silence.

Thank you for not thinking the worst of me because I disagree with you.

~~ the phoenix

What I hear you saying is that you plan to do this for the rest of your life, whenever you are disturbed before (or after) Mass.

Is that correct?

Sounds like a burden to me. I wouldn’t want to carry this burden, but if you are willing to shoulder it and lug it around, that’s your choice. Hope it works out for you.

If I tried this, I would be upset and agitated in my soul after my “rebuke” of others, and I wouldn’t be able to concentrate on the Lord Jesus anymore, probably for the rest of Mass or even the rest of the day. But that’s just the way I am. It’s good that you can speak up and then settle down immediately.

And keep in mind that some day, you will speak up to the “wrong” person, and you will get either an earful or possibly even a beating, and that will cause more of a disturbance before (or after) Mass than a little chatter. Yes, the agressor is in the wrong, but that doesn’t matter if you’re their victim. In our city, we tend to leave disturbers alone because we never know what they’re capable of. (We have the highest percentage of crime in our state.)

 

[the_phoenix]

:clapping: Love it! I’m going to do that next time we are asked to give intros!

I HATE that practice - Mass is not a cocktail party or a conference!

Think about it. Someday you may be giving the intro you’ve seen here, and someone will respond with,

“Hey, are you from CAF?”

 

[the_phoenix]

Oh, but would I have the nerve…

:flowers:

Here’s an inspirational quote that I kinda like.

“Courage! What makes a King out of a slave? Courage! What makes the flag on the mast to wave? Courage! What makes the elephant charge his tusk in the misty mist, or the dusky dusk? What makes the muskrat guard his musk? Courage! What makes the Sphinx the Seventh Wonder? Courage! What makes the dawn come up like thunder? Courage! What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the ape in ape-ricot? What have they got that I ain’t got? (Courage) You can say that again!”

~~ the Cowardly Lion
in
The Wizard of Oz

filmsite.org/bestspeeches2.html