Take a minute to introduce yourself before Mass begins

[Cat]

That’s not exactly correct.

The priest’s, “The peace of the Lord be with you always” and the congregation’s “And also with you” are required.

The next part, where the priest invites us to share with each other a sign of peace is entirely optional.

We don’t have the option of skipping this part of the liturgy but the priest has the option.

In my own parish, we did not have the shared sign of peace for many years. It had gotten out of hand with people going up the aisles and it going on too long. After a few warnings, Father just started skipping that section, as is his option. A few months ago, he reintroduced it. The last few weeks, he has prefaced it with a reminder to share the sign of peace quietly and reverently. My guess is that if people don’t heed his reminder, it will go away again.

Thank you. That’s true, this is up to the priest. I remember that during the H1N1 outbreak, a lot of priests suspended the congregational Sign of Peace.

I guess what we need to always remember is that it’s up to the priest. If the priest discerns a need to eliminate the congregational greeting, he will. But if he discerns a need to keep the congregational greeting, he will. It’s his call

We, the lay people, have to trust that the priest is doing God’s will in this, even if it’s not our personal preference. Just one more reason to pray for our priests.

I think this is a wise and submissive way to approach this issue. I think that this attitude would please the Lord.

 

[Cat]

Hi Cat,

Oh, the stories I could tell you!

But to answer your question:

Far more important than my ability to pray before or after Mass is the proper respect due to Jesus, Our Eucharistic Lord truly present in the tabernacle.

My goal is to, when prompted to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit, speak out in order to achieve a holy … and peaceful … silence.

Thank you for not thinking the worst of me because I disagree with you.

~~ the phoenix

I don’t think the worst of you. In fact, I think you have said something very important for all of us to keep in mind–“when prompted to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit…”

If the Holy Spirit indeed prompts you or anyone to speak up and “hush” someone (or not hush someone), then by all means do it because the Holy Spirit will lead us into perfect truth and would never tell us to do something that would be hurtful to ourselves or others.

But is silence the ONLY way to show respect to Jesus in the Most August Sacrament?

Isn’t love, demonstrated through loving words, touch, and actions, another way to show respect?

the phoenix, please allow me to share some concerns about “hushing” people.

I think it’s possible that someone can be very offended by a rebuke, offended to the point where they use the incident as an excuse to stop attending Mass and leave the Church.

Yes, I agree that it’s a very silly reason to walk away from Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Hopefully none of us would ever do such a foolish thing.

But other people aren’t us.

I don’t think that one rebuke would cause someone to leave the Church. But I think that a series of bad experiences with the Catholic Church could cause a person to become gradually more and more disillusioned with the Catholic Church, and eventually to lose their faith in Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. For someone like this, the “rebuke” or “hushing” could very well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and sends them fleeing from the Church in disgust and disillusionment.

That’s quite a burden for a “rebuker” to bear. Of course, they’ll never know that it was their well-meaing rebuke that finally caused the exit of the miscreant.

OTOH, a soft voice and a kind word, spoken sincerely and lovingly, could be the one little thing that changes a person’s mind and keeps them in the Church, and that could mean the difference between heaven and hell for that person.

I would be extremely hesitant to ever say something that might give a bitter, disillusioned, or hurt person an excuse to leave the Church.

Surely, surely, it’s possible to lovingly and with great sweetness and reasonableness, ask a noisy person for quiet in such a way that their dignity is upheld and they don’t end up feeling like a little baby being hushed by mama?

Earlier someone mentioned responding to Father’s request to greet each other by saying, “Hi, I’m a conservative, etc.”

Now what exactly is the point of that? That’s just mean-spirited, IMO. There’s no reason to be churlish or act like a rude curmudgeon and say something that might possibly hurt someone who is expecting a kind word, not a haughty, political statement that is obviously a thinly-veiled criticism about the priest’s choice to ask the people to meet and greet each other.

What does this “greeting” tell a weaker Christian? It tells them that some people in the parish disagree with Father and think Father is wrong, at least about the “greeting thing.” This would make the weaker Christian wonder what ELSE Father is wrong about. It would also make the weaker Christian wonder if there are lots of factions and controversies in this parish.

Like it or not, there is nothing in the rubrics that forbids a priest to ask people to greet others. There’s no abuse here. The priest is exercising his charism as an ordained cleric to help his flock learn to love each other. He has every right to do this. He is our FATHER, and when our FATHER tells us to do something, we should do it unless it is a sin. To not show respect for Father is the same as not showing respect for Jesus.

Again, surely, SURELY, there is a way that a shy person, or someone who personally prefers silence before the Mass, can obey Father without offending others and at the same time, not becoming aggrieved in their own soul over the lack of silence. Why not simply nod, smile, and say in a hushed, respectful, and gentle voice, “I’m Cat. God bless you,” or “Good morning, I’m Cat,” or something polite and civil along those lines.

We should always look out for the best interests of OTHERS, not our own interests.

Philippians 2: 3 & 4 is so lovely and peaceable–“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.” (Italics mine)

Interestingly, further on in the chapter, St. Paul says, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing–

 

[the_phoenix]

I could always simply attend the Latin Mass parish downtown.
The talking you hear there before Mass
is the recitation of the Rosary.

I don’t think the worst of you. In fact, I think you have said something very important for all of us to keep in mind–“when prompted to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit…”

If the Holy Spirit indeed prompts you or anyone to speak up and “hush” someone (or not hush someone), then by all means do it because the Holy Spirit will lead us into perfect truth and would never tell us to do something that would be hurtful to ourselves or others.

But is silence the ONLY way to show respect to Jesus in the Most August Sacrament?

Isn’t love, demonstrated through loving words, touch, and actions, another way to show respect?

the phoenix, please allow me to share some concerns about “hushing” people.

I think it’s possible that someone can be very offended by a rebuke, offended to the point where they use the incident as an excuse to stop attending Mass and leave the Church.

Yes, I agree that it’s a very silly reason to walk away from Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Hopefully none of us would ever do such a foolish thing.

But other people aren’t us.

I don’t think that one rebuke would cause someone to leave the Church. But I think that a series of bad experiences with the Catholic Church could cause a person to become gradually more and more disillusioned with the Catholic Church, and eventually to lose their faith in Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. For someone like this, the “rebuke” or “hushing” could very well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and sends them fleeing from the Church in disgust and disillusionment.

That’s quite a burden for a “rebuker” to bear. Of course, they’ll never know that it was their well-meaing rebuke that finally caused the exit of the miscreant.

OTOH, a soft voice and a kind word, spoken sincerely and lovingly, could be the one little thing that changes a person’s mind and keeps them in the Church, and that could mean the difference between heaven and hell for that person.

I would be extremely hesitant to ever say something that might give a bitter, disillusioned, or hurt person an excuse to leave the Church.

Surely, surely, it’s possible to lovingly and with great sweetness and reasonableness, ask a noisy person for quiet in such a way that their dignity is upheld and they don’t end up feeling like a little baby being hushed by mama?

Earlier someone mentioned responding to Father’s request to greet each other by saying, “Hi, I’m a conservative, etc.”

Now what exactly is the point of that? That’s just mean-spirited, IMO. There’s no reason to be churlish or act like a rude curmudgeon and say something that might possibly hurt someone who is expecting a kind word, not a haughty, political statement that is obviously a thinly-veiled criticism about the priest’s choice to ask the people to meet and greet each other.

What does this “greeting” tell a weaker Christian? It tells them that some people in the parish disagree with Father and think Father is wrong, at least about the “greeting thing.” This would make the weaker Christian wonder what ELSE Father is wrong about. It would also make the weaker Christian wonder if there are lots of factions and controversies in this parish.

Like it or not, there is nothing in the rubrics that forbids a priest to ask people to greet others. There’s no abuse here. The priest is exercising his charism as an ordained cleric to help his flock learn to love each other. He has every right to do this. He is our FATHER, and when our FATHER tells us to do something, we should do it unless it is a sin. To not show respect for Father is the same as not showing respect for Jesus.

Again, surely, SURELY, there is a way that a shy person, or someone who personally prefers silence before the Mass, can obey Father without offending others and at the same time, not becoming aggrieved in their own soul over the lack of silence. Why not simply nod, smile, and say in a hushed, respectful, and gentle voice, “I’m Cat. God bless you,” or “Good morning, I’m Cat,” or something polite and civil along those lines.

We should always look out for the best interests of OTHERS, not our own interests.

Philippians 2: 3 & 4 is so lovely and peaceable–“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.” (Italics mine)

Interestingly, further on in the chapter, St. Paul says, "Do all things without grumbling or disputing–

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Well, back when I was just a member of the congregation in the pews, I would just kneel and pray silently while everyone else did the sign of peace. Now, I’ve had people shove past me, poke me, nudge me, and reach their hands over my shoulders and head to reach the person two pews away. Who’s being the rude one here? Alright, I’ll grant that’s the exception as most people aren’t that rude, but I still prefer silence - so that’s what I’ll continue to do if I’m in the pews.

The above, however, does not happen much at all anymore since I’m typically in the organ loft at the time of the sign of peace. There I find it annoying on a professional level and a personal level as I’m preparing the music that I’m about to play and people are trying to shake my hand. I eventually told the choir that I wouldn’t shake hands and gave them my reasons and then said that they could consider me at peace with them already and that if shaking hands is a must, I would do it before or after Mass, but not during. The part I didn’t tell them (I can restrain myself sometimes!) is that the surest way to NOT be at peace with me is to try shaking my hand against my will during Mass.

About the rubric argument, there’s a major problem with that. Using the “we aren’t told NOT to do this so it’s alright” method of debating gets nowhere. If GIRM or other documents had to name everything that we couldn’t do, then I think we’d have to spend an entire lifetime just to read through them. It has to be assumed that some common sense is used so we don’t just have a list of do’s and don’t’s.

…If the Holy Spirit indeed prompts you or anyone to speak up and “hush” someone (or not hush someone), then by all means do it because the Holy Spirit will lead us into perfect truth and would never tell us to do something that would be hurtful to ourselves or others.

But is silence the ONLY way to show respect to Jesus in the Most August Sacrament?

Isn’t love, demonstrated through loving words, touch, and actions, another way to show respect?

the phoenix, please allow me to share some concerns about “hushing” people.

I think it’s possible that someone can be very offended by a rebuke, offended to the point where they use the incident as an excuse to stop attending Mass and leave the Church.

Yes, I agree that it’s a very silly reason to walk away from Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Hopefully none of us would ever do such a foolish thing.

But other people aren’t us.

I don’t think that one rebuke would cause someone to leave the Church. But I think that a series of bad experiences with the Catholic Church could cause a person to become gradually more and more disillusioned with the Catholic Church, and eventually to lose their faith in Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. For someone like this, the “rebuke” or “hushing” could very well be the straw that breaks the camel’s back, and sends them fleeing from the Church in disgust and disillusionment.

That’s quite a burden for a “rebuker” to bear. Of course, they’ll never know that it was their well-meaing rebuke that finally caused the exit of the miscreant.

OTOH, a soft voice and a kind word, spoken sincerely and lovingly, could be the one little thing that changes a person’s mind and keeps them in the Church, and that could mean the difference between heaven and hell for that person.

I would be extremely hesitant to ever say something that might give a bitter, disillusioned, or hurt person an excuse to leave the Church.

Surely, surely, it’s possible to lovingly and with great sweetness and reasonableness, ask a noisy person for quiet in such a way that their dignity is upheld and they don’t end up feeling like a little baby being hushed by mama?

What does this “greeting” tell a weaker Christian? It tells them that some people in the parish disagree with Father and think Father is wrong, at least about the “greeting thing.” This would make the weaker Christian wonder what ELSE Father is wrong about. It would also make the weaker Christian wonder if there are lots of factions and controversies in this parish.

Like it or not, there is nothing in the rubrics that forbids a priest to ask people to greet others. There’s no abuse here. The priest is exercising his charism as an ordained cleric to help his flock learn to love each other. He has every right to do this. He is our FATHER, and when our FATHER tells us to do something, we should do it unless it is a sin. To not show respect for Father is the same as not showing respect for Jesus.

Again, surely, SURELY, there is a way that a shy person, or someone who personally prefers silence before the Mass, can obey Father without offending others and at the same time, not becoming aggrieved in their own soul over the lack of silence. Why not simply nod, smile, and say in a hushed, respectful, and gentle voice, “I’m Cat. God bless you,” or “Good morning, I’m Cat,” or something polite and civil along those lines.

We should always look out for the best interests of OTHERS, not our own interests.

Quote shortened due to character limitations.

 

[TheMc]

Yes, mass is supposed to be about God, but you really think God would want us to ignore the people celebrating it next to us? Brothers and sisters in Christ, the family of God, what kind of family doesn’t even think to say hi to one another? How utterly snooty, not to mention rude.

Snotty? Would you walk into the throne room of the queen of england when she is sitting right there waiting for you, and start chatting as soon as you see someone you know?

Heck No!!! How much more reverence should we have for Our Lord?!?!?!

It’s not about “ignoring” them, it’s about praying with them, knowing that their is something, ahem… someone greater than yourself in your presence.

 

[faithfully]

Once while on vacation and attending the local parish, I encountered two middle-aged ladies directly in front of and right beside me loudly chatting it up to catch up on their friendship before Mass.

Smiling and with a conversational tone, I turned to one and said, “Excuse me, I’m not from here. Do you believe that Jesus is truly present in the tabernacle up there on the altar?”

One of the “happy chatters” responded, “Yes.”

“Then why are you talking?” * said with my best, cute little wide-eyed innocent look *

All of a sudden, the chatting stopped and was replaced with reverent silence.

~~ the phoenix

Passive Aggressive behavior is rude and not appropriate either in a church.

If you feel so inclined, educate with some grace.

“Excuse me, I’m having a hard time praying and placing all my focus on God, who is within that tabernacle right there ,with your chatter. I would really appreciate it if you would stop.”

Doe eyed expressions… says, I’m too much of a wimp to say what I mean, I’d just rather make you feel bad. Obviously you have the courage to speak up. Have the courage to have some tact as well.

Because clearly, many are just not up on what is appropriate and what isn’t anymore.

I do hope that all of you who are so displeased with the environment that is created in many of your Parishs will go to your priest and ask to be included in the preperation of the changes at advent. It’s truly a spectacular time to really help the Parish brush up on appropriate behavior in Mass… From start to finish!

Whether a class is offered, or a weekly insert is prepared for the parish bulletin. I think many would appreciate it!

It’s quite reasonable, that many of the congregation just don’t remember all the rules. Or are coming back and barely remember anything. The changes are bound to cause confusion. Especially for anyone that might return to the church afterwards…

 

[the_phoenix]

Somehow, I don’t think St. Patrick was considered tactful by the Pagans when he interrupted one of their rituals. Lighting a Paschal Fire to represent Christ after he’d been distinctly told not to because the Pagans wanted to light their fires first? Hmmmm, some might call that passive aggressive behavior or rude, I suppose.

I stand by what I did.

Happy St. Patrick’s Day!

:shamrock2:

newadvent.org/cathen/11554a.htm

Passive Aggressive behavior is rude and not appropriate either in a church.

If you feel so inclined, educate with some grace.

“Excuse me, I’m having a hard time praying and placing all my focus on God, who is within that tabernacle right there ,with your chatter. I would really appreciate it if you would stop.”

Doe eyed expressions… says, I’m too much of a wimp to say what I mean, I’d just rather make you feel bad. Obviously you have the courage to speak up. Have the courage to have some tact as well.

Because clearly, many are just not up on what is appropriate and what isn’t anymore.

I do hope that all of you who are so displeased with the environment that is created in many of your Parishs will go to your priest and ask to be included in the preperation of the changes at advent. It’s truly a spectacular time to really help the Parish brush up on appropriate behavior in Mass… From start to finish!

Whether a class is offered, or a weekly insert is prepared for the parish bulletin. I think many would appreciate it!

It’s quite reasonable, that many of the congregation just don’t remember all the rules. Or are coming back and barely remember anything. The changes are bound to cause confusion. Especially for anyone that might return to the church afterwards…

 

[ConstantineTG]

These statements water down the respect and reverence we should offer to the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. When I am in front of the Eucharist I think of the words “My Lord and My God!”

I do not understand how you can say that the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is the same as the presence of Jesus in you or me. It is against our faith to believe such a thing and to conclude that somehow refusing to turn away from the Eucharist and talk to my neighbor means I am ignoring Christ makes no sense.

I never said they were equal. But just because one is better than the other, it doesn’t mean the lesser one can be ignored all together. Didn’t Christ say that we should make peace with our brother before making our sacrifice at the temple?

Then why don’t we meet each other at home? After all, Christ did say “For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matt.18:20)

“To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven…a time to keep silence, and a time to speak…” (Eccl 3:1-)

Thats how they did it in the first century, meeting in each other’s homes. Of course a common place of worship made more sense as public worship became safe. But its not like Christ commanded buildings to be constructed.

 

[centurionguard]

Passive Aggressive behavior is rude and not appropriate either in a church.

If you feel so inclined, educate with some grace.

“Excuse me, I’m having a hard time praying and placing all my focus on God, who is within that tabernacle right there ,with your chatter. I would really appreciate it if you would stop.”

Doe eyed expressions… says, I’m too much of a wimp to say what I mean, I’d just rather make you feel bad. Obviously you have the courage to speak up. Have the courage to have some tact as well.

Because clearly, many are just not up on what is appropriate and what isn’t anymore.

I do hope that all of you who are so displeased with the environment that is created in many of your Parishs will go to your priest and ask to be included in the preperation of the changes at advent. It’s truly a spectacular time to really help the Parish brush up on appropriate behavior in Mass… From start to finish!

Whether a class is offered, or a weekly insert is prepared for the parish bulletin. I think many would appreciate it!

It’s quite reasonable, that many of the congregation just don’t remember all the rules. Or are coming back and barely remember anything. The changes are bound to cause confusion. Especially for anyone that might return to the church afterwards…

It’s quite reasonable, that many of the congregation just don’t remember all the rules. Or are coming back and barely remember anything. The changes are bound to cause confusion. Especially for anyone that might return to the church afterwards

Too me this excessive rude noise all falls back on the parish priest’s responsibilities.

If the Parish Priest doesn’t generate an example and aire of reverence in the Church, what we see in the Church today is the end result.

Reverence takes Humility…but if one’s heart is not disposed to humility it surely won’t be there.

How often does one hear a Homily about Reverence?

Peace
Chris

 

[ProVobis]

Didn’t Christ say that we should make peace with our brother before making our sacrifice at the temple?

During the war all sides came together to worship in the same Mass. And they did it without the fanfare.

But its not like Christ commanded buildings to be constructed.

He Himself worshipped in one. And took pains to make sure it remained the House of God.

 

[centurionguard]

During the war all sides came together to worship in the same Mass. And they did it without the fanfare.

He Himself worshipped in one. And took pains to make sure it remained the House of God.

During the war all sides came together to worship in the same Mass. And they did it without the fanfare.

Why do you suppose we see so much fanfare today and opposition?

This Hospitality Ministry (“Greeters at the Doors”) began in my Parish two years ago.

Depending on which Parish you go to, this talkative Gossip time at the door entrances can and does get out of hand. I for one didn’t hope to see the Catholic Church on Sunday morning turn into a Protestant Meeting Hall.

Let me reiterate the fact of which Parish your attending.

Some Parishes have a more sedate Greeting Ministry. The Faithful are human after all with all our weaknesses. So along with all this comes tolerance.

Peace
Chris

 

[Mrs_V]

Passive Aggressive behavior is rude and not appropriate either in a church.

If you feel so inclined, educate with some grace.

“Excuse me, I’m having a hard time praying and placing all my focus on God, who is within that tabernacle right there ,with your chatter. I would really appreciate it if you would stop.”

Doe eyed expressions… says, I’m too much of a wimp to say what I mean, I’d just rather make you feel bad. Obviously you have the courage to speak up. Have the courage to have some tact as well.

Because clearly, many are just not up on what is appropriate and what isn’t anymore.

 

[happymommy]

What if, instead of telling people they are being loud or that you need them to be quiet so you can pray…you invite them to pray with you. Excuse, I’m trying to pray the rosary, would you care to join me? Or I’m going to say my prayers now, is there something on your heart that you need prayer for?
Just a thought.

 

[faithfully]

What if, instead of telling people they are being loud or that you need them to be quiet so you can pray…you invite them to pray with you. Excuse, I’m trying to pray the rosary, would you care to join me? Or I’m going to say my prayers now, is there something on your heart that you need prayer for?
Just a thought.

I think that’s an excellent idea.

 

[ishii]

Too me this excessive rude noise all falls back on the parish priest’s responsibilities.

If the Parish Priest doesn’t generate an example and aire of reverence in the Church, what we see in the Church today is the end result.

Reverence takes Humility…but if one’s heart is not disposed to humility it surely won’t be there.

How often does one hear a Homily about Reverence?

Peace
Chris

This is a good point - it starts from the top, the pastor (and the deacon if there is one). I have seen pastors that were overly casual, familiar, joking at different points during the liturgy (not only during the homily) that was a poor example for the parishioners in the pews. I have noticed in my archdiocese that this is changing - the newer priests seem to make an effort to foster a greater reverence during mass.