Taking Communion at a protestant church

[anon77300002]

You are right. Everyone should become Catholic which is the Church Christ went to all the trouble to start .

 

[DD2007]

Thank you. I really don’t know that I understand what you’re trying to say… is it that you believe the Lord’s Supper is simply symbolic and Jesus’ Body and Blood are not really present, so it is the believer’s faith in Christ’s sacrifice that gives them grace as they celebrate the remembrance of His real and true Body and Blood Sacrificed for us on the cross?

For us, this would be an extreme sacrilege and bring condemnation on us. Paul tells us that receiving the Body and Blood of Christ while in this state of belief (unworthily) would make us “guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.”

I believe that there is an undefinable presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I think that the Lord’s Supper must be taken in faith and by discerning the presence of Christ and by discerning the sinful state of the soul. Basically.

 

[po18guy]

I believe that there is an undefinable presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I think that the Lord’s Supper must be taken in faith and by discerning the presence of Christ and by discerning the sinful state of the soul. Basically.

I pray that you, as well as doubting Catholics will receive the grace to know, to fully recognize that Christ is present in the Holy Eucharist - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Consider: Miracles occur in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Miracles do not occur in the presence of bread and wine or juice. If they did, every grocery store would produce thousands of converts each year.

 

[Michael_David]

I believe that there is an undefinable presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I think that the Lord’s Supper must be taken in faith and by discerning the presence of Christ and by discerning the sinful state of the soul. Basically.

I pray that you, as well as doubting Catholics will receive the grace to know, to fully recognize that Christ is present in the Holy Eucharist - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. Consider: Miracles occur in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Miracles do not occur in the presence of bread and wine or juice. If they did, every grocery store would produce thousands of converts each year.

The Eucharist seems to be a memorial service as Christ said to ‘do this in remembrance of me.’ Being Catholic, I know what the Church says, and that is what po18guy also says. It becomes a matter of faith in the Church down to the Priest to have this happen. Then, is our faith in the Church, or in Christ… as DD2007 says. Where should our faith be? In God… or Man? This makes it an individual thing, as faith is with each person. Where they place that faith is also an individual thing. And as DD2007 said earlier, quoting what christ said, ‘where 2 or 3 are gathered in my Name, there I will also be’. So it does seem to be hinged of faith and gathering in His Name (the remembrance service He asked us to do).

I can see the other religions doing this, just as we do… only we have the linage to go along with it. Although Christ never stated that as a requirement for this remembrance service (which we call Mass).

And if one looked at the Host, and tried to prove that It was the Body and Blood of Christ to another, they would have to delve into faith in order to validate that assumption for another to believe the same as we do. Faith is a necessary element even for the Catholic with reference to the Eucharist. And it is this Faith that DD2007 also says is at his church service with reference to the host.

From Adam to Christ the linage is recorded in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, the linage ends (Christ had no offspring), but as Christian, we are all Children of God… and the linage continues. And if God can ‘zap’ Saul to make him St. Paul, around from what Peter was aware as the ‘Rock’ the Church was going to be built on… perhaps God is still working around from what the Pope is aware. In all this, Perhaps God (Christ) is helping us Catholic’s in the Mission He wants from us by these other religions mimicking our Mass. Remember, Christ could only do the Miracles if the people had Faith, in His own town He could not. So, again, Faith is the element Christ is looking for… even at His ‘remembrance service’.

 

[MDK]

I believe that there is an undefinable presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I think that the Lord’s Supper must be taken in faith and by discerning the presence of Christ and by discerning the sinful state of the soul. Basically.

Please take this in the way it was intended…, as it’s amazing to me… does the larger truth ever factor into your belief system, or is your faith system just what you want to believe as it comes into your mind?

That being said, I still don’t think you understand a salient point here. You seem to think it’s all on the believer who determines their own truth. Is there a larger truth there as to whether Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity is really and truly in the Eucharist (true Eucharist as Christ intended through His institution of such) regardless of what the individual Christian may actually believe, or does His Presence vary depending on what the individual believes about the Eucharist?

 

[MDK]

The Eucharist seems to be a memorial service as Christ said to ‘do this in remembrance of me.’ Being Catholic, I know what the Church says, and that is what po18guy also says. It becomes a matter of faith in the Church down to the Priest to have this happen. Then, is our faith in the Church, or in Christ… as DD2007 says. Where should our faith be? In God… or Man? This makes it an individual thing, as faith is with each person. Where they place that faith is also an individual thing. And as DD2007 said earlier, quoting what christ said, ‘where 2 or 3 are gathered in my Name, there I will also be’. So it does seem to be hinged of faith and gathering in His Name (the remembrance service He asked us to do).

I can see the other religions doing this, just as we do… only we have the linage to go along with it. Although Christ never stated that as a requirement for this remembrance service (which we call Mass).

And if one looked at the Host, and tried to prove that It was the Body and Blood of Christ to another, they would have to delve into faith in order to validate that assumption for another to believe the same as we do. Faith is a necessary element even for the Catholic with reference to the Eucharist. And it is this Faith that DD2007 also says is at his church service with reference to the host.

From Adam to Christ the linage is recorded in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, the linage ends (Christ had no offspring), but as Christian, we are all Children of God… and the linage continues. And if God can ‘zap’ Saul to make him St. Paul, around from what Peter was aware as the ‘Rock’ the Church was going to be built on… perhaps God is still working around from what the Pope is aware. In all this, Perhaps God (Christ) is helping us Catholic’s in the Mission He wants from us by these other religions mimicking our Mass. Remember, Christ could only do the Miracles if the people had Faith, in His own town He could not. So, again, Faith is the element Christ is looking for… even at His ‘remembrance service’.

If you really are Catholic, it’s sad that you seem not to understand what the teaching actually is. I recommend reading the Catechism for starters. A huge misunderstanding is to say that it’s faith in the Church or the Priest that takes the place of God. This is idolatry, and does not represent the Catholic teaching at all. The priest does not do this on his own, as if it is through the power of the priest, independent of God. The priest must be a valid priest to consecrate, but it is the power of Christ, His keeping His promise that He comes to us in the Eucharist. **Those who believe in the Eucharist do so as a direct belief that Christ keeps His promise to us. ** It is not because of the priest or the faith of the priest. The faith of the priest can even be in question, but has to intend to do what the Church does in order to have a valid consecration. It’s not simply a nice memorial, perhaps like the Jewish Passover, which was a foreshadowing. The mass takes us right back to Calvary and applies the merits of His death on the cross to our lives. The power of the mass is strictly because of Christ.

God established His Church, not to take His place, but to bring His Gospel to us faithfully and bring His Sacraments to us as well. It is because of this, that we can have a relationship with Christ, and apply the merits of His death on the cross to our lives in our time, and have a deeper walk with Him. So, the mistake is in saying it’s either faith in His Church, or faith in the priesthood, or faith in Christ. It is not either/or, but we have Christ, His Church and the priesthood… all for the single purpose of bringing us closer to Christ. It’s all the above because of Christ, not that they are equal. Why would Christ build His Church to take His place? Don’t you think He’s smarter than that, and desires that we come to Him? He built His Church so we could come to know Him and to have a better relationship with Him, and receive the Salvation He merited on the cross for us, His family. The only reason we go to Church is because Christ built it for us to be close to Him, to be His Body.

My Catholic brother, you have much to learn. The Church is not a cafeteria where you can come to choose what you like and don’t like. We believe in the full Gospel, not your own. It’s the full meal deal, as Christ taught.

 

[MDK]

You are right. Everyone should become Catholic which is the Church Christ went to all the trouble to start .

Apparently, some think that they can do it better, as if Christ didn’t do a good enough job…

 

[1ke]

I think this thread has gone far off topic. The OP did not ask for personal opinions on taking communion in non-Catholic communities or personal opinions on whether or not it’s symbolic or the Real Presence. Perhaps poster insistent on debating the issues will start their own thread.

He asked for-- and received in the first three posts on this thread-- Catholic Church documentation specifying the teaching of the Catholic Church on this topic.

 

[MDK]

I think this thread has gone far off topic. The OP did not ask for personal opinions on taking communion in non-Catholic communities or personal opinions on whether or not it’s symbolic or the Real Presence. Perhaps poster insistent on debating the issues will start their own thread.

He asked for-- and received in the first three posts on this thread-- Catholic Church documentation specifying the teaching of the Catholic Church on this topic.

Yes, implicit in this is that the only decent personal opinion as a Catholic is one that is formed by and certainly supports and adheres to the official Catholic teaching, as only official Catholic teaching is guaranteed to be without error in faith and morals.

I see that clarification of why this is the Catholic teaching, which includes many things, all surrounding what Christ actually taught, is certainly needed, as there is much confusion. For Catholics and non-Catholics, it is most important to understand the truth of this, as it is with all that Christ left as His deposit of faith.

 

[MDK]

I guess the implication is that we would be partaking in a worthless ritual, no?

The Catholic teaching is that we give the false impression that we are in communion with their belief system as well. We are not. On a very serious note, if you look at their bread as though it is really the body of Christ and adore it as such, you have just committed the sin of idolatry. It is the same problem as adoring or worshiping an unconsecrated host in the Catholic Church.

 

[Michael_David]

MDK, what was it Christ told the Apostles when they saw other’s (not of the original 12) doing Miracles in Jesus’ Name?

Didn’t He say, ‘if they are not against us, they are for us’?

This is the attitude I have posted on this thread with…

 

[po18guy]

The Eucharist seems to be a memorial service as Christ said to ‘do this in remembrance of me.’ Being Catholic, I know what the Church says, and that is what po18guy also says. It becomes a matter of faith in the Church down to the Priest to have this happen.** Then, is our faith in the Church, or in Christ… as DD2007 says**. Where should our faith be? In God… or Man? This makes it an individual thing, as faith is with each person. Where they place that faith is also an individual thing. And as DD2007 said earlier, quoting what christ said, ‘where 2 or 3 are gathered in my Name, there I will also be’. So it does seem to be hinged of faith and gathering in His Name (the remembrance service He asked us to do).

Don’t fall for the demon’s leading here! First: DD2207 is NOT a demon, but a brother in Christ who has been lead into error on this crucial point. The Church is Christ’s body on earth. You cannot separate Christ from His Church. This is an error made by many non-Catholic churches, who have a fundamentally different view of “church” than Christ did. Most are founded only on the bible - just one component of faith. Christ’s Catholic Church is founded on Him - our salvation, Who was, is and ever shall be the Head of the Church. Christ, in the Blessed Sacrament which He instituted for us, is the source and summit of our faith.

Look at the chronology of Christ’s Word from both scripture and Church teaching: He blessed and broke bread to feed the 4,000 and the 5,000. Each was a miracle. He then spoke at length on His Body and Blood in John 6. Because of that teaching, many, perhaps even most of His disciples left. This is the perfect indicator of truth. It was only afterward that He established the Eucharist at the last supper. Following that, He appeared on the road to Emmaus. After Jesus blessed and broke the bread the two disciples knew Him “in the breaking of the bread”. This was no memorial dinner, but the revelation that the blessed and broken bread is actually Christ.

Certainly, as He ascended, He told the Apostles “I will be with you until the end of the age”. The Church, with Christ-given authority and by the leading of the Holy Spirit, has determined that this is not only “where two or three are gathered in my name” but also in the Eucharist. Especially in the Eucharist. OK, so we “do this in memory” of Christ. Do what? EAT His Body and drink His Blood! It is the new memorial in which the Remembered is present with us. And we must do this worthily, after discerning the Body of Christ, or we “eat and drink judgment” unto ourselves. The words of Saint Paul. It is more than just a simple memorial.

Since Christ’s ascension, there have appeared on earth a multitude of personal opinions regarding even Who He is. Only one is correct. Only one has the fulness of truth. Only one is the perfection of His Body. Only one is the actual Church that He founded, You are in that Body and I pray that you will receive many graces from above, to know without doubt, that it is Christ and Christ alone in the Eucharist.

Our job, as Catholics, is to lead all others to the complete truth. That complete truth is Jesus Christ, present in the one Church which He founded for our sake, and in which He is present with us “even to the end of the age.” Amen!

 

[po18guy]

MDK, what was it Christ told the Apostles when they saw other’s (not of the original 12) doing Miracles in Jesus’ Name?

Didn’t He say, ‘if they are not against us, they are for us’?

This is the attitude I have posted on this thread with…

Well, this can be countered with “He who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters” (Matthew 12:30 and Luke 11:23). Separated, disagreeing churches scatter rather than gather. They create division, rather than unity. Consider:

1. Does the Holy Spirit unite?
2. Does the demon divide?

 

[Michael_David]

Our job, as Catholics, is to lead all others to the complete truth. That complete truth is Jesus Christ, present in the one Church which He founded for our sake, and in which He is present with us “even to the end of the age.” Amen!

I concur.

It is in the ‘leading others…’ that you and I differ. The how we do it.

I prefer to find out where the ‘other’ is by trying to understand how they believe… from there, then, lead them to our truth. Rather then, telling my truth as the one-and-only truth (setting the other in a defensive mode right out of the gate), and only leaving an argument left to deal with, instead of God’s more Loving ways of guidance.
(This can track with your following post about unity or division)

If one only knows their own religion and not the others, how can one lovingly lead another (or guide another), to the full truth without causing division? Christ was leading the Jews; St. Paul was leading the Gentiles… did either do it by arguing? Even St. Paul said he became like those he wanted to convert… rather then keeping his distance and only preach.

 

[po18guy]

I concur.

It is in the ‘leading others…’ that you and I differ. The how we do it.

I prefer to find out where the ‘other’ is by trying to understand how they believe… from there, then, lead them to our truth. Rather then, telling my truth as the one-and-only truth (setting the other in a defensive mode right out of the gate), and only leaving an argument left to deal with, instead of God’s more Loving ways of guidance.
(This can track with your following post about unity or division)

If one only knows their own religion and not the others, how can one lovingly lead another (or guide another), to the full truth without causing division? Christ was leading the Jews; St. Paul was leading the Gentiles… did either do it by arguing? Even St. Paul said he became like those he wanted to convert… rather then keeping his distance and only preach.

Quite right. However, with over 30,000 different lines of thought out there, it seems that one must place non-Catholic believers into various groups. This is not entirely correct, but life is too short to know them all!

There is no better truth to lead them home than Christ in the Eucharist. Simply sitting in His presence has caused many conversions. Amen!

 

[Michael_David]

Quite right. However, with over 30,000 different lines of thought out there, it seems that one must place non-Catholic believers into various groups. This is not entirely correct, but life is too short to know them all!

Ah, the Good Lord does not ask that you or I have to convert the whole world… just the one’s He places in our path, the one’s journeying with us in this world. As the Lord has guided (lead) you, you should guide (lead) another… this leaves a lot to consider in how one does it.

You or I have no flock to tend… just those we meet and associate with. It is Christ that has the flock, we are only to do our ‘little share’ in time (as He directs us), the rest will follow in time perhaps with another doing their ‘little share’ in time (as He directs them). And the other may (will) come to the truth by a lot of people all doing there ‘little share’ of the conversion.

How many have been involved in your learning the truth? And it all happened at God’s Loving Guiding Hands.

 

[MDK]

MDK, what was it Christ told the Apostles when they saw other’s (not of the original 12) doing Miracles in Jesus’ Name?

Didn’t He say, ‘if they are not against us, they are for us’?

This is the attitude I have posted on this thread with…

How about He who hears the ones sent by Christ, hears Christ, and he who rejects those Christ sent, also rejects Christ. Christ sent the Apostles and a chief Apostle. The successors are Bishops including the Chief Bishop (Bishop of Rome). So, if you want to reject Christ, continue on as you will, ignoring the official Catholic teachings given to us by the Magisterium. I strongly recommend against this. I would much prefer that you become a full Catholic.

 

[MDK]

I concur.

It is in the ‘leading others…’ that you and I differ. The how we do it.

I prefer to find out where the ‘other’ is by trying to understand how they believe… from there, then, lead them to our truth. Rather then, telling my truth as the one-and-only truth (setting the other in a defensive mode right out of the gate), and only leaving an argument left to deal with, instead of God’s more Loving ways of guidance.
(This can track with your following post about unity or division)

If one only knows their own religion and not the others, how can one lovingly lead another (or guide another), to the full truth without causing division? Christ was leading the Jews; St. Paul was leading the Gentiles… did either do it by arguing? Even St. Paul said he became like those he wanted to convert… rather then keeping his distance and only preach.

Lest we not fall into false ecumenism, and lose sight of the very Truth that can bring about unity. Even the mafia certainly puts unity above the truth. However, we are called not to.

With credit to Fr. William Most and Vatican II:

That fact that salvation is possible for those not formally members of the Catholic Church does not mean that there should be no missions or attempts to bring back the Protestants. Richer and more secure means of salvation are to be had with formal explicit adherence to the Catholic Church. Therefore we need to make every effort. In regard to Ecumenism, it is good to keep in mind a rule from Vatican II, in its Decree on Ecumenism (# 11): “It is altogether necessary that the complete doctrine be clearly presented. Nothing is so foreign to true Ecumenism as that false peace-making in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss, and its true and certain sense is obscured.”

 

[Michael_David]

How about He who hears the ones sent by Christ, hears Christ, and he who rejects those Christ sent, also rejects Christ. Christ sent the Apostles and a chief Apostle. The successors are Bishops including the Chief Bishop (Bishop of Rome). So, if you want to reject Christ, continue on as you will, ignoring the official Catholic teachings given to us by the Magisterium. I strongly recommend against this. I would much prefer that you become a full Catholic.

Sorry, I am a Catholic. One who is in the pew on Sunday’s, not at the Altar. I am still learning what this Faith (religion) is all about. As St. Paul has said, I have been weaned from only milk, but I haven’t tried all the different foods that are on the table yet. Sorry if I’m a little slower then you are, but I was taught to fully chew the food in my mouth before swallowing it.

I may get to where you are… if I live long enough…

 

[MDK]

Don’t fall for the demon’s leading here! First: DD2207 is NOT a demon, but a brother in Christ who has been lead into error on this crucial point. The Church is Christ’s body on earth. You cannot separate Christ from His Church. This is an error made by many non-Catholic churches, who have a fundamentally different view of “church” than Christ did. Most are founded only on the bible - just one component of faith. Christ’s Catholic Church is founded on Him - our salvation, Who was, is and ever shall be the Head of the Church. Christ, in the Blessed Sacrament which He instituted for us, is the source and summit of our faith.

Look at the chronology of Christ’s Word from both scripture and Church teaching: He blessed and broke bread to feed the 4,000 and the 5,000. Each was a miracle. He then spoke at length on His Body and Blood in John 6. Because of that teaching, many, perhaps even most of His disciples left. This is the perfect indicator of truth. It was only afterward that He established the Eucharist at the last supper. Following that, He appeared on the road to Emmaus. After Jesus blessed and broke the bread the two disciples knew Him “in the breaking of the bread”. This was no memorial dinner, but the revelation that the blessed and broken bread is actually Christ.

Certainly, as He ascended, He told the Apostles “I will be with you until the end of the age”. The Church, with Christ-given authority and by the leading of the Holy Spirit, has determined that this is not only “where two or three are gathered in my name” but also in the Eucharist. Especially in the Eucharist. OK, so we “do this in memory” of Christ. Do what? EAT His Body and drink His Blood! It is the new memorial in which the Remembered is present with us. And we must do this worthily, after discerning the Body of Christ, or we “eat and drink judgment” unto ourselves. The words of Saint Paul. It is more than just a simple memorial.

Since Christ’s ascension, there have appeared on earth a multitude of personal opinions regarding even Who He is. Only one is correct. Only one has the fulness of truth. Only one is the perfection of His Body. Only one is the actual Church that He founded, You are in that Body and I pray that you will receive many graces from above, to know without doubt, that it is Christ and Christ alone in the Eucharist.

Our job, as Catholics, is to lead all others to the complete truth. That complete truth is Jesus Christ, present in the one Church which He founded for our sake, and in which He is present with us “even to the end of the age.” Amen!

po18,

Very well said. I really appreciate that you are one who hears those whom Christ sent to continue His mission in His Name.