Taking down a poster a sin?

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But are laws which protect private property that can lead one into sin LAWFUL?

Are laws which protect the private possession of pornography lawful?

Are campus policies which permit the publicizing and sponsoring of events antithetical to Catholicism–lawful?

I am arguing that they are not.
You choose to live in country where you live. In the US,there are laws protecting free speech and private property.

As a Catholic, private property is not sin.

If you do not believe in free speech or private property, you can work to change the laws (as these are Constitutional items, this will be a long hard battle) or you can move somewhere where the laws come in line with your interpretation of sin/morality.

Thou Shalt Not Steal is still a commandment, whether you believe in private property or not.
 
Sir Knight,

I think that when we apply God’s commands and the precepts of the catechism to our modern understanding of ‘private property’ we run into the sorts of issues we have on this thread.
Show me where the Catechism condemns private property. Show me where the Catechism gives us as individuals the right to decide when someone else’s property rights end.
 
Sir Knight,

I think that when we apply God’s commands and the precepts of the catechism to our modern understanding of ‘private property’ we run into the sorts of issues we have on this thread.

Have you read Aquinas on property? I posted a bit of it above. Basically, in the Christian understanding of the world, we must recognize that our right to possess private property originates in God, and is designed to maintain our material sustenance. The proper end of ownership of property is directed towards the common good–the support and sanctification of mankind.

So what I’m getting at here is that people don’t have a God-given right to ‘own’ property which works against the material support and **sanctification **of mankind.

Do I think that the ‘vigilante justice’ of the kind I participated in by ripping down a few signs in my dorm should be exercised against every immoral display in the world? No. But in the situations which I was presented with, I believe that removing something which could lead people far away from the Church and into sin is justified–because their sanctification matters more than leaving something hanging on the wall out of legalistic concerns for justice.

There’s a difference. My church’s event wouldn’t lead someone to sin; by contributing to charities, it is contributing to the common good. The event I mentioned above which was being advertised would almost certainly lead someone to sin, or at least to a severely damaged understanding of the meaning of human sexuality.

Where do we have a God-given right to advertise? How is that bringing about the sanctification of souls?

My point is that it doesn’t matter if the person paid for it; they paid for something immoral. They only have the right to use money to acquire goods inasmuch as it makes them holy, allows them to materially exist, and contributes to the common good. It is not in God’s plan for us to use the goods we have been given for immoral purposes.

The point is that it’s a corrupt/unjust decision. The play shouldn’t be here. The administration erred in allowing it. The Church does not teach that we have to sit back and always obey authority, even when their decisions are unjust and work against the common good.

This is almost a Kantian way of approaching things. We are to live the truth in love, not merely follow a list of maxims. I’m all about objective truth, here–that’s why I care so much about vigorously defending the dignity of the human person and Catholic teaching on sexuality. ONE of the ways I do this is by removing offensive posters in public spaces.
That’s all very well and good EXCEPT the writings of the saints are NOT declared to be infallible and we are NOT bound to live our lives by them. We are, however, bound to live our lives by the official teachings of the Catholic Church and CCC 2408 states "The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner." – taking something that does not belong to you, even if for a good reason (see cross reference CCC1753 quoted earlier in this thread) is wrong. If it is wrong, it displeases God. We are to love God with our entire heart, mind & soul and should take every step possible to avoid offending Him.
 
We’re the Catholic Church, not the Ku Klux Klan. We don’t resort to vigilantism.
 
We’re the Catholic Church, not the Ku Klux Klan. We don’t resort to vigilantism.
Exactly. We cannot claim that it’s okay for Catholics to tear down things that offend them without also allowing others to tear down things that offend them.

Remind me of something Bill Buckley once said. Liberals are all people expressing other views, they are just surprised to find out there are other views
 
Exactly. We cannot claim that it’s okay for Catholics to tear down things that offend them without also allowing others to tear down things that offend them.

Remind me of something Bill Buckley once said. Liberals are all people expressing other views, they are just surprised to find out there are other views
And when they find out there are other views, they want them outlawed.😛
 
In saying that ‘laws’ protecting pornography are not ‘lawful,’ I’m not necessarily advocating that they ought to be changed. Freedom of speech is a good thing; people just need to understand that freedom comes with responsibility to use it well.

I find what the posters advertise offensive, and I believe that it offends God. So I remove them. Honestly, I find it very hard to believe that my ‘unjustly’ removing a poster adds insult to God’s injury. “Taking out the trash,” “righting a wrong”…those are things that would apply to it.
 
In saying that ‘laws’ protecting pornography are not ‘lawful,’ I’m not necessarily advocating that they ought to be changed. Freedom of speech is a good thing; people just need to understand that freedom comes with responsibility to use it well.

I find what the posters advertise offensive, and I believe that it offends God. So I remove them. Honestly, I find it very hard to believe that my ‘unjustly’ removing a poster adds insult to God’s injury. “Taking out the trash,” “righting a wrong”…those are things that would apply to it.
You find it hard to believe? Maybe you should look to Luke 12:47 …

"And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48. “But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.”

… It is very possible that the God is LESS offended by pornographic poster if it was placed by someone who did not KNOW that they were offending God; and will be MORE offended by someone taking down the poster when they know such action is sinful but decide to do it anyway.
 
If it’d be just and a public service and if you consider yourself a moral and just person, go do it – and make sure the government knows so they can commend you for your noble deeds! I don’t have to know; I didn’t say ‘inform me’.
You seem to forget that God commanded some to be killed…for the greater good…this command goes against His Fifth Commandment. Obviously, exceptions apply, even to the law of God. I wouldn’t inform you, or anybody of an illegal action I committed or intended to commit; that is stupid. The truth doesn’t matter to the government, and some can do more good underground than out in the open. Christians are not to “ask” for martyrdom, which is what you imply I do. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
 
You seem to forget that God commanded some to be killed…for the greater good…this command goes against His Fifth Commandment. Obviously, exceptions apply, even to the law of God. I wouldn’t inform you, or anybody of an illegal action I committed or intended to commit; that is stupid. The truth doesn’t matter to the government, and some can do more good underground than out in the open. Christians are not to “ask” for martyrdom, which is what you imply I do. Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
God commands us THROUGH His Church (" … whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven … "). Even heavenly apparitions instructed those that were experiencing them to remain obedient to the Church.

And the official teachings of the Catholic Church (CCC2408 supported via CCC1753) teach that it would be sinful to take somebody else’s property for the reasons outlined in this thread.
 
You seem to forget that God commanded some to be killed…for the greater good…this command goes against His Fifth Commandment. Obviously, exceptions apply, even to the law of God. I wouldn’t inform you, or anybody of an illegal action I committed or intended to commit; that is stupid.
Why wouldn’t you? Isn’t it a public service? Good? Just? Moral? Why would you be afraid to claim responsibility?
 
If a public high school put up an “anti-christian” poster, in this case a poster for the movie “Golden Compass”, would it be a sin to take it down and throw it away? Thanks, Tim
Tim, when you posted this, did you have any idea at all what you were starting?
 
Tim, when you posted this, did you have any idea at all what you were starting?
I’m surprised how long this thread is. I thought it would be three or four posts. I believe there are a lot of situation ethics going on here. Outrage when something we support is torn down and acceptance when something we oppose is torn down.
 
I’m surprised how long this thread is. I thought it would be three or four posts. I believe there are a lot of situation ethics going on here. Outrage when something we support is torn down and acceptance when something we oppose is torn down.
This is almost as long as the thread about coat racks in church!:rolleyes:
 
Why wouldn’t you? Isn’t it a public service? Good? Just? Moral? Why would you be afraid to claim responsibility?
If an innocent person was going to get the rap for something I did, or course I would come foward with a confession. It doesn’t matter if what I do is right or wrong, what matters is what the govt. says, and when the govt. is wrong, it’s wrong. God is my judge, not the president of the united states. fidelity comes first to God, the govt. has second place. actually, in my life, a lot else comes before the govt., but you know what I mean. It’s not number one. A woman could go to jail for killing her child, now she’s given the right. Our system is extremely corrupt, and if you or anyone else prefer the law of man over the divine law which, contrary to popular opinion isn’t to take everything lying down, well, that’s not my problem. Rights do not come before right.
 
You MAY not owe fidelity to your government (that debate is for another thread) but you DO owe fidelity to the Church that Christ established and as already pointed out, your actions would be in violation of official church teachings.
 
If a public high school put up an “anti-christian” poster, in this case a poster for the movie “Golden Compass”, would it be a sin to take it down and throw it away? Thanks, Tim
When I was in college there was a poster put up on the wall explaining in mystical terms why a fetus was not a human being. Hmmm, funny, it seemed that the poster had not been stamped with the approval of the school administration. I did the school a
service and removed the unauthorized posting 🙂
 
When I saw this thread title, I thought somebody was talking about whether “taking down” a CAF poster was a sin. Are we allowed to kill each other for bad posts? Getting banned is bad enough. I don’t think the moderators get THAT rough. What kind of posts…some of mine have been pretty bad, but really…

But it is a SCHOOL poster you’re taliking about, not a CAF poster. I get it now. Duh.
 
I’m stopping my participation in this thread–it’s too long, and only getting tempers flared.

My final thought is that perhaps God holds those to whom He has revealed Himself and taught His Law to an even higher standard of *action *than those who abide only by human law. Perhaps it would be worse for me to allow an evil I see being committed (the display of pornography in a public place, or an advertisement for a semi-pornographic play at a Catholic school) to continue than to stop it. Perhaps God’s justice is more than just following the rules that have been created on earth…
 
Tim, when you posted this, did you have any idea at all what you were starting?
No and now I have to confess being pissed and wanting to beat the pulp out of someone. I’m getting to where I can’t stand the internet. I would rather have a face to face. I was undecided, but my pride buttons where pushed and I got defensive. So I have to step away. This created more problems then solved for me.Tim
 
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