E
estesbob
Guest
While we are at it we need to pull down all those altars in Catholic Churches that face the people! And rip out of the pews all those missals with the mass in ENGLISH!
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L
latinmasslover
Guest
If this is the case you ought to enlighten the Pope, because this would then mean that the govt. has no right to put anyone in prison for that. Funny, you’re judging now, aren’t you? And not just my soul (which is condemned…the judging, not my actual soul, at least not yet).Actually, out of the Catechism of the Catholic Church “judging” refers to condemning. We are not to condemn the actions of others.
Where does the Catechism of the Catholic Church give us, as INDIVIDUALS, the right or the duty to decide when someone else’s property rights end?
Because it isn’t recorded anywhere in scripture nor in any of the writings of the early church fathers that they did.
God gave man the right to make judgments. Not everything is black and white, as many Church officials love to emphasize. There are grey areas, we just disagree as to what they are.
Nobody is saying to fight sin with sin, we just disagree also as to what qualifies as sin. You can acknowledge that there does exist a spirit of the law and follow that, or allow evil by only observing the letter.
N
Neil_Anthony
Guest
And what about when the police show up, is it OK to resist the police to keep that movie screen down?Nothing sinful about self defense.
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
An aggressor cannot claim self-defense. You can’t beat people up for trying to stop you from vandalizing their property.Nothing sinful about self defense.
L
latinmasslover
Guest
I never said to beat anybody up. Self defense, and only defense. If it becomes futile, fine, surrender. The point would have been made. Again, too sloppy for me, so I can’t speak for those who might do it. Just my opinion.An aggressor cannot claim self-defense. You can’t beat people up for trying to stop you from vandalizing their property.
As for the police showing up, humbly resign and live to “fight” another day.
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
Proverbs 14:12 “Sometimes a way seems right to a man, but the end of it leads to death.” Proverbs 16:25 Wow!!! That Proverb is mentioned twice!!!
That Proverb applies to this situation. Sure, it would seem like taking down a poster for a movie that is based on part one of a trilogy of books that send an evil message would be the right thing to do. If such actions can be done legally, they would be the right thing to do. We have to serve God on HIS terms, however, not on our own. God sees the whole picture, while we only see a part. We have to trust the teaching of God’s Church. That teaching is “Thou Shall Not Steal.” We do NOT have the right to other people’s property, unless such rights are granted to us lawfully(ie. a police officer confiscating drugs or weapons.)
Stealing and vandalism are wrong. We are told in Romans 12:21, “Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.” We can use those posters, and that movie as evangelism tools, if we do so properly. We can lovingly explain why the message is false, and PROVE that the message is false, by our loving actions. We can contrast the movie’s message by explaining how our own obedience to God has improved the quality of our lives. If instead, we whine and complain about, “our rights,” and “being offended,” then we are no better than those liberal groups that get under our skin. If we furthermore assert that our illegal actions are inspired by God, then “On your account the name of God is held in contempt among the Gentiles” (Part of Romans 2:24.)
We can NOT play the Acts 5:29 card to do something that God has not specifically told us to do, even if we think it is the right thing to do. We are NOT commanded to destroy idols or offensive material on other people’s property. You won’t see St. Paul doing that in the Book of Acts, either. In fact, to the contrary, we are commanded not to steal, and to obey authority. So, such actions would not only be illegal, but immoral as well, REGARDLESS of our intention.
We may think, “I’m preventing innocent children from seeing a poster that advertises something that could ultimately lead them away from God.” What our actions may really cause, however, is for people to say, “Catholics are arrogant and think they can impose their views on everyone, and that they are above the law. I NEVER want to be like them.” Or, someone may say, “Catholics are objecting to this so much that I can’t wait to go out and see what they are objecting to.” So, by tearing down those posters, we may actually cause more publicity for that movie, and more DAMAGE to the building up of the Kingdom of God, than that movie or its accompanying books could ever dream of. People will judge Catholics by what they see from Catholics, not by what they see in some movie written by an atheist.
What makes us think that by tearing down those posters, we are somehow going to endear people to us? We are called to make disciples of the nations, not to make sure that we are asserting our self-declared “rights” at all times. That is a worldly thing to do, and we are called to be separated from the world. We are called to stand out and be a shining city on a hill.
So, the question is, how do we want people to see us, as Catholics? Do we want the world to see us as people who will angrily demand our self-declared “rights” to the exclusion of the lawfully declared rights of others, and force our beliefs on others, even if we have to break the law to do it? Or, would we want the world to see us as law-abiding citizens who show love to all people, regardless of religion or culture, as all are made in God’s image, and loved enough by Jesus for Him to die for their sins? If only we obeyed Jesus, our lives would draw more people to Him.
Sometimes, even our well-intended instincts may conflict with Church teachings. In such situations, we need to TRUST the Church. That is an example of where faith truly comes in.
At the Second Coming of Christ, the faithful will no longer need to contend with anti-Catholicism. Until then, it is a cross that we have to carry and will NOT be able to eliminate. Yet, God gives us the tools to overcome this world. He gave us The Holy Spirit to dwell within us. He left His Church to infallibly guide us, under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.
We need to trust Him, and let our actions be in The Spirit, not in the flesh. Tearing posters down from other people’s property are actions of the flesh. Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good are actions done in The Spirit.
We need to remember Galatians 5:16 in all we think, say, and do.
That Proverb applies to this situation. Sure, it would seem like taking down a poster for a movie that is based on part one of a trilogy of books that send an evil message would be the right thing to do. If such actions can be done legally, they would be the right thing to do. We have to serve God on HIS terms, however, not on our own. God sees the whole picture, while we only see a part. We have to trust the teaching of God’s Church. That teaching is “Thou Shall Not Steal.” We do NOT have the right to other people’s property, unless such rights are granted to us lawfully(ie. a police officer confiscating drugs or weapons.)
Stealing and vandalism are wrong. We are told in Romans 12:21, “Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good.” We can use those posters, and that movie as evangelism tools, if we do so properly. We can lovingly explain why the message is false, and PROVE that the message is false, by our loving actions. We can contrast the movie’s message by explaining how our own obedience to God has improved the quality of our lives. If instead, we whine and complain about, “our rights,” and “being offended,” then we are no better than those liberal groups that get under our skin. If we furthermore assert that our illegal actions are inspired by God, then “On your account the name of God is held in contempt among the Gentiles” (Part of Romans 2:24.)
We can NOT play the Acts 5:29 card to do something that God has not specifically told us to do, even if we think it is the right thing to do. We are NOT commanded to destroy idols or offensive material on other people’s property. You won’t see St. Paul doing that in the Book of Acts, either. In fact, to the contrary, we are commanded not to steal, and to obey authority. So, such actions would not only be illegal, but immoral as well, REGARDLESS of our intention.
We may think, “I’m preventing innocent children from seeing a poster that advertises something that could ultimately lead them away from God.” What our actions may really cause, however, is for people to say, “Catholics are arrogant and think they can impose their views on everyone, and that they are above the law. I NEVER want to be like them.” Or, someone may say, “Catholics are objecting to this so much that I can’t wait to go out and see what they are objecting to.” So, by tearing down those posters, we may actually cause more publicity for that movie, and more DAMAGE to the building up of the Kingdom of God, than that movie or its accompanying books could ever dream of. People will judge Catholics by what they see from Catholics, not by what they see in some movie written by an atheist.
What makes us think that by tearing down those posters, we are somehow going to endear people to us? We are called to make disciples of the nations, not to make sure that we are asserting our self-declared “rights” at all times. That is a worldly thing to do, and we are called to be separated from the world. We are called to stand out and be a shining city on a hill.
So, the question is, how do we want people to see us, as Catholics? Do we want the world to see us as people who will angrily demand our self-declared “rights” to the exclusion of the lawfully declared rights of others, and force our beliefs on others, even if we have to break the law to do it? Or, would we want the world to see us as law-abiding citizens who show love to all people, regardless of religion or culture, as all are made in God’s image, and loved enough by Jesus for Him to die for their sins? If only we obeyed Jesus, our lives would draw more people to Him.
Sometimes, even our well-intended instincts may conflict with Church teachings. In such situations, we need to TRUST the Church. That is an example of where faith truly comes in.
At the Second Coming of Christ, the faithful will no longer need to contend with anti-Catholicism. Until then, it is a cross that we have to carry and will NOT be able to eliminate. Yet, God gives us the tools to overcome this world. He gave us The Holy Spirit to dwell within us. He left His Church to infallibly guide us, under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.
We need to trust Him, and let our actions be in The Spirit, not in the flesh. Tearing posters down from other people’s property are actions of the flesh. Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good are actions done in The Spirit.
We need to remember Galatians 5:16 in all we think, say, and do.
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
So, the question is, how do we want people to see us, as Catholics? Do we want the world to see us as people who will angrily demand our self-declared “rights” to the exclusion of the lawfully declared rights of others, and force our beliefs on others, even if we have to break the law to do it? Or, would we want the world to see us as law-abiding citizens who show love to all people, regardless of religion or culture, as all are made in God’s image, and loved enough by Jesus for Him to die for their sins? If only we obeyed Jesus, our lives would draw more people to Him.
Sometimes, even our well-intended instincts may conflict with Church teachings. In such situations, we need to TRUST the Church. That is an example of where faith truly comes in.
At the Second Coming of Christ, the faithful will no longer need to contend with anti-Catholicism. Until then, it is a cross that we have to carry and will NOT be able to eliminate. Yet, God gives us the tools to overcome this world. He gave us The Holy Spirit to dwell within us. He left His Church to infallibly guide us, under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.
We need to trust Him, and let our actions be in The Spirit, not in the flesh. Tearing posters down from other people’s property are actions of the flesh. Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good are actions done in The Spirit.
We need to remember Galatians 5:16 in all we think, say, and do.
Sometimes, even our well-intended instincts may conflict with Church teachings. In such situations, we need to TRUST the Church. That is an example of where faith truly comes in.
At the Second Coming of Christ, the faithful will no longer need to contend with anti-Catholicism. Until then, it is a cross that we have to carry and will NOT be able to eliminate. Yet, God gives us the tools to overcome this world. He gave us The Holy Spirit to dwell within us. He left His Church to infallibly guide us, under the guidance of The Holy Spirit.
We need to trust Him, and let our actions be in The Spirit, not in the flesh. Tearing posters down from other people’s property are actions of the flesh. Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good are actions done in The Spirit.
We need to remember Galatians 5:16 in all we think, say, and do.
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good, and letting that woman know that if she has that baby, we will PERSONALLY see to it that that baby has a good home, are all actions done in The Spirit.
Just to clarify, they are done in The Spirit provided that they are done honestly and with Godly intentions.
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
Just to clarify, these actions are done in The Spirit provided that they are done with honesty and Godly intentions.Reassuring people that God is love, His rules are for our own good, and letting that woman know that if she has that baby, we will PERSONALLY see to it that that baby has a good home, are all actions done in The Spirit.
That is my understanding, anyway.
L
latinmasslover
Guest
God decides what is right and what is wrong, and when the govt. conflicts, we owe obedience to God. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is wrong/sinful, and vice versa. Stealing and vandalism are not always wrong, per se. Since our government’s interpretation of the law is constantly changing, and not usually for the better, the spirit is to be followed. Murder is wrong. Always? Depends on your definition of murder. There are grey areas.
Wasn’t it St. Paul that said he was above the law? That the law was made for the unrighteous? We owe no fidelity to a law that protects sin.
Catholics aren’t well known for standing up for truth and morality. This, along with a lot of false representations of doctrine/morality, is why Catholics are viewed the way they are; not because of the zealous or overzealous. Most of my friends, acquaintances, etc. are not Catholic, and they have very little respect for Catholicism due to the “take it lying down” approach. To say that doing something drastic will only have negative effects is very untrue. Children don’t usually behave out of love and devotion to Mom and Dad, but out of fear of punishment. Same point I’m trying to make. You want to lead people to God? One cannot have a true love for God without first having a holy fear of God. Love of God is not a gift of the Spirit, but holy fear is…there’s a reason for that. Some people respond to love, but many respond to fear of…whatever. It would be nice if that weren’t so, but it is.
Personally, I’m attracted to results. Of course, as Christians we are called to seek a peaceful solution, FIRST, but that isn’t always possible which is how we have “just” wars. Sometimes a riot is necessary, sometimes it isn’t. It’s not about our “rights;” it’s about God’s law and what He determines as right and wrong being undermined among the innocent. St. Paul, and Jesus, say to cast away those who persevere in sin, but I’m sure some here would disagree with that particular statement, choosing only to focus on a false, protestant notion of love.
Anti-Catholics are going to bash the Church no matter what. “They do nothing…they do too much…” You can’t please everybody. God comes first.
If one gets arrested, one gets arrested. If it’s a sacrifice they’re willing to make, Amen! Protecting children, even if only temporarily and only giving them more of a chance to live, is more important in the eyes of God than the man-given right to private property, a right that is abused and unjust and unholy.
There’s more to the Scriptures than loving and waiting. God eventually requires action. The Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, He inspired St. Joan of Arc to lead an Army against authorities, and even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates. There’s a time and place for everything.
Wasn’t it St. Paul that said he was above the law? That the law was made for the unrighteous? We owe no fidelity to a law that protects sin.
Catholics aren’t well known for standing up for truth and morality. This, along with a lot of false representations of doctrine/morality, is why Catholics are viewed the way they are; not because of the zealous or overzealous. Most of my friends, acquaintances, etc. are not Catholic, and they have very little respect for Catholicism due to the “take it lying down” approach. To say that doing something drastic will only have negative effects is very untrue. Children don’t usually behave out of love and devotion to Mom and Dad, but out of fear of punishment. Same point I’m trying to make. You want to lead people to God? One cannot have a true love for God without first having a holy fear of God. Love of God is not a gift of the Spirit, but holy fear is…there’s a reason for that. Some people respond to love, but many respond to fear of…whatever. It would be nice if that weren’t so, but it is.
Personally, I’m attracted to results. Of course, as Christians we are called to seek a peaceful solution, FIRST, but that isn’t always possible which is how we have “just” wars. Sometimes a riot is necessary, sometimes it isn’t. It’s not about our “rights;” it’s about God’s law and what He determines as right and wrong being undermined among the innocent. St. Paul, and Jesus, say to cast away those who persevere in sin, but I’m sure some here would disagree with that particular statement, choosing only to focus on a false, protestant notion of love.
Anti-Catholics are going to bash the Church no matter what. “They do nothing…they do too much…” You can’t please everybody. God comes first.
If one gets arrested, one gets arrested. If it’s a sacrifice they’re willing to make, Amen! Protecting children, even if only temporarily and only giving them more of a chance to live, is more important in the eyes of God than the man-given right to private property, a right that is abused and unjust and unholy.
There’s more to the Scriptures than loving and waiting. God eventually requires action. The Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, He inspired St. Joan of Arc to lead an Army against authorities, and even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates. There’s a time and place for everything.
L
latinmasslover
Guest
…
“When that Protestant destroyed statues in a Catholic church, did that endear any Catholics to him, or to protestantism in general? Did that endear any nonbelievers to Christianity? More likely, it just made the person who did it look bad, and in the eyes of those who like to stereotype, made protestantism look bad.”
Actually, that Protestant mentality was very attractive…showed others that non-Catholics put God above all else, even though their theology is gross. If caught though, one should express the reasoning behind the action, with love of the child, and not hate of the parent.
Personally, I’m attracted to results. Of course, as Christians we are called to seek a peaceful solution, FIRST, but that isn’t always possible which is how we have “just” wars. Sometimes a riot is necessary, sometimes it isn’t. It’s not about our “rights;” it’s about God’s law and what He determines as right and wrong being undermined among the innocent. If one wants to make an issue about rights though, what of the rights of the unborn children? It’s sounds as if you’re saying what my Mormon friend says, “abortion is wrong, but the woman should have the right to choose.” “it’s wrong, but…” St. Paul, and Jesus, say to cast away those who persevere in sin, but I’m sure some here would disagree with that particular statement, choosing only to focus on a false, protestant notion of love.
Destroying a child butcher house may get a woman to rethink what she’s doing, esp. if the possibility exists in her mind that the next time one goes “boom,” she could be inside. (I am not suggesting blowing up a clinic with people inside.) There’s nothing wrong with making murder inconvenient.
Anti-Catholics are going to bash the Church no matter what. “They do nothing…they do too much…” You can’t please everybody. God comes first.
“When people view Catholics as evil, self-righteous lawbreakers, those people are pushed further away from Catholic teachings. Thus, they will be even more inclined to follow their instincts towards sexual promiscuity, which will lead to more abortions.” I don’t know where you came up with that conclusion. One could argue the same point if we mention MS (mortal sin). Actually, this is why many priests don’t touch on the subject: “They won’t convert if we talk about sin.” What a joke! Every Christian who mentions sin is termed “self-righteous.” Oh well, that’s not the problem of the Christian but of the guilty conscience spewing that pathetic excuse.
If one gets arrested, one gets arrested. If it’s a sacrifice they’re willing to make, Amen! Protecting children, even if only temporarily and only giving them more of a chance to live, is more important in the eyes of God than the man-given right to private property, a right that (as for an abortion clinic) is abused and unjust and unholy.
“Now, since more Catholics have misrepresented God, less people will accept Him. Since God wills for all to be saved. (1 Timothy 2:4.), the destruction of the abortion clinic clearly can not be in line with God’s will.” Who’s misrepresenting God? Don’t forget that He Himself commanded that the property of others be destroyed. You cannot equate God with a hormonal woman; His values do not change. So keep abortion up and running because the govt. says so, make sure it’s readily available to all, God forbid we step on their “rights” that were NOT given by God…this saves souls? (cough-“bull”-cough). People don’t accept Him because they don’t want to change their lifestyles, not because others speak up for morality and faith; that’s only an excuse, and a pitiful excuse at that.
“Thus, not only did the actions of that Catholic fail to save the lives of any unborn babies, but they furthermore led more people further away from God and His Church, possibly causing MORE abortions in the future….” You have statistics to back that up? You know for a fact that if an abortion clinic were burned down/blown up/shot at that no woman would reconsider? Yes, they can go to another clinic (which should also be destroyed), or they can do it themselves if it’s so important to them.
There’s more to the Scriptures than loving and waiting. God eventually requires action. The Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, He inspired St. Joan of Arc to lead an Army against authorities, and even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates. There’s a time and place for everything.
“When that Protestant destroyed statues in a Catholic church, did that endear any Catholics to him, or to protestantism in general? Did that endear any nonbelievers to Christianity? More likely, it just made the person who did it look bad, and in the eyes of those who like to stereotype, made protestantism look bad.”
Actually, that Protestant mentality was very attractive…showed others that non-Catholics put God above all else, even though their theology is gross. If caught though, one should express the reasoning behind the action, with love of the child, and not hate of the parent.
Personally, I’m attracted to results. Of course, as Christians we are called to seek a peaceful solution, FIRST, but that isn’t always possible which is how we have “just” wars. Sometimes a riot is necessary, sometimes it isn’t. It’s not about our “rights;” it’s about God’s law and what He determines as right and wrong being undermined among the innocent. If one wants to make an issue about rights though, what of the rights of the unborn children? It’s sounds as if you’re saying what my Mormon friend says, “abortion is wrong, but the woman should have the right to choose.” “it’s wrong, but…” St. Paul, and Jesus, say to cast away those who persevere in sin, but I’m sure some here would disagree with that particular statement, choosing only to focus on a false, protestant notion of love.
Destroying a child butcher house may get a woman to rethink what she’s doing, esp. if the possibility exists in her mind that the next time one goes “boom,” she could be inside. (I am not suggesting blowing up a clinic with people inside.) There’s nothing wrong with making murder inconvenient.
Anti-Catholics are going to bash the Church no matter what. “They do nothing…they do too much…” You can’t please everybody. God comes first.
“When people view Catholics as evil, self-righteous lawbreakers, those people are pushed further away from Catholic teachings. Thus, they will be even more inclined to follow their instincts towards sexual promiscuity, which will lead to more abortions.” I don’t know where you came up with that conclusion. One could argue the same point if we mention MS (mortal sin). Actually, this is why many priests don’t touch on the subject: “They won’t convert if we talk about sin.” What a joke! Every Christian who mentions sin is termed “self-righteous.” Oh well, that’s not the problem of the Christian but of the guilty conscience spewing that pathetic excuse.
If one gets arrested, one gets arrested. If it’s a sacrifice they’re willing to make, Amen! Protecting children, even if only temporarily and only giving them more of a chance to live, is more important in the eyes of God than the man-given right to private property, a right that (as for an abortion clinic) is abused and unjust and unholy.
“Now, since more Catholics have misrepresented God, less people will accept Him. Since God wills for all to be saved. (1 Timothy 2:4.), the destruction of the abortion clinic clearly can not be in line with God’s will.” Who’s misrepresenting God? Don’t forget that He Himself commanded that the property of others be destroyed. You cannot equate God with a hormonal woman; His values do not change. So keep abortion up and running because the govt. says so, make sure it’s readily available to all, God forbid we step on their “rights” that were NOT given by God…this saves souls? (cough-“bull”-cough). People don’t accept Him because they don’t want to change their lifestyles, not because others speak up for morality and faith; that’s only an excuse, and a pitiful excuse at that.
“Thus, not only did the actions of that Catholic fail to save the lives of any unborn babies, but they furthermore led more people further away from God and His Church, possibly causing MORE abortions in the future….” You have statistics to back that up? You know for a fact that if an abortion clinic were burned down/blown up/shot at that no woman would reconsider? Yes, they can go to another clinic (which should also be destroyed), or they can do it themselves if it’s so important to them.
There’s more to the Scriptures than loving and waiting. God eventually requires action. The Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, He inspired St. Joan of Arc to lead an Army against authorities, and even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates. There’s a time and place for everything.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
That’s a false statement. Every heavenly apparition instructed the people to be obedient to the Church’s authority.even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
I don’t recall reading anywhere that Paul thought that he was above the law. Can you provide the chapter and verse please for those of us that may have missed it?Wasn’t it St. Paul that said he was above the law? That the law was made for the unrighteous? We owe no fidelity to a law that protects sin.
I recall Paul charging the members of the Church to respect those who have authority over them in 1 Thess. 5:12-13 WITHOUT any qualifying statements that “we owe no fidelity to a law that protects sin”.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
The fact is that nowhere in the official teachings of the church can you show where you, as an individual, has the right or the duty to rob or destroy somebody’s property to save others from sin. None of the apostles did this and they were personally appointed by the Son of God. What makes you think that you have a greater right or called to a higher duty than they were?There’s more to the Scriptures than loving and waiting. God eventually requires action. The Holy Crusades, the Holy Inquisition, He inspired St. Joan of Arc to lead an Army against authorities, and even commanded (through the Saints) to not give in to the questioning prelates. There’s a time and place for everything.
Certainly not scripture! And certainly not the official teachings of the Catholic Church!!
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
Are you refering to Romans 5:13? If so, go back to verse 9, and read through verse 13. In context, that is only refering to those who claim to be “brothers,” and in my understanding, strictly to those believers who make no pretense of trying to stop the sin, but instead act wantonly sinful, as if there is nothing wrong with it.…
St. Paul, and Jesus, say to cast away those who persevere in sin
Even then, it is the Church’s decision to excommunicate, and not the decision of the individual laity.
See Luke 17:3-4, and Matthew 18:21-22 if you want to see how Jesus said we should deal with “brothers” who personally wrong us.
C
ChangingHeart
Guest
I agree with this statement, but not in the way you are applying it. You are talking about Acts 5:29, but you are applying it to a situation that does NOT constitute, “obedience to God.” God did NOT command, “destroy others’ property if it is being used sinfully, or can lead others into sin.” THAT is why the Acts 5:29 card can NOT be played in these situations.God decides what is right and what is wrong, and when the govt. conflicts, we owe obedience to God. Just because something is illegal does not mean it is wrong/sinful, and vice versa.
I offer you the challenge to find a Scripture or Church teaching that COMMANDS us to destroy the property of others, if it violates our faith, and then you can validly apply the Acts 5:29 card to this situation. Otherwise, you are NOT being “obedient to God,” but instead relying on your own understanding of what you THINK God would want you to do. (See Proverbs 3:5.)
If, instead, you want to KNOW what God wants you to do, follow the teachings of His Church. Look at examples in the Book of Acts of how the Apostles dealt with other people’s property when it violated their faith. You will see that there is no indication of them destroying anything. (See Acts 17:16 and the following verses, and read the “Riot of the Silversmiths” story in Acts 19:23-40.) You won’t see Christians destroying other people’s property there, even though such property violated the faith and was leading people astray, likely including innocent children, too.
Romans 13:1-5, and 1 Peter 2:13-17 are key Scriptures to see, too, in terms of obeying authority. Yes, there is the Acts 5:29 exception to those two passages of Scripture, but again, we can only apply Acts 5:29 to that which we are specifically COMMANDED to either do or not do.
Can we try to legally get man’s law’s changed? ABSOLUTELY!!! Can we violate man’s laws that apply to us for reasons other than following that which God has commanded us to do? Absolutely NOT!!!
So again, LatinMasslover, show me an official Church teaching(not an opinion) that commands, or even permits us to destroy other people’s property if it violates our faith and has the potential to lead others astray, and then you can apply the Acts 5:29 card. Otherwise, you’ve presented a false dichotemy(sp?) of God’s laws vs. man’s laws, when the reality of the situation is a zealous Catholic’s desires to achieve an intended Godly outcome vs. God’s laws AND man’s laws.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
L
latinmasslover
Guest
So I’m a liar, am I? Read exactly what she said at her trial, and *then *comment.That’s a false statement. Every heavenly apparition instructed the people to be obedient to the Church’s authority.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
Do a google search on “Medjugorje” and over and over again you will see the following statement … *"*A certain sign of a false apparition, when Church authority is disobeyed by the apparition itself." (source)So I’m a liar, am I? Read exactly what she said at her trial, and *then *comment.
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latinmasslover
Guest
There’s more to the Scriptures than the New Testament. “I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill.” I regard the God-given right to life a little more than the man-given right to a slaughterhouse. Just my personal opinion. Check out the Old Testament, it has wonderful examples.I agree with this statement, but not in the way you are applying it. You are talking about Acts 5:29, but you are applying it to a situation that does NOT constitute, “obedience to God.” God did NOT command, “destroy others’ property if it is being used sinfully, or can lead others into sin.” THAT is why the Acts 5:29 card can NOT be played in these situations.
I offer you the challenge to find a Scripture or Church teaching that COMMANDS us to destroy the property of others, if it violates our faith, and then you can validly apply the Acts 5:29 card to this situation. Otherwise, you are NOT being “obedient to God,” but instead relying on your own understanding of what you THINK God would want you to do. (See Proverbs 3:5.)
If, instead, you want to KNOW what God wants you to do, follow the teachings of His Church. Look at examples in the Book of Acts of how the Apostles dealt with other people’s property when it violated their faith. You will see that there is no indication of them destroying anything. (See Acts 17:16 and the following verses, and read the “Riot of the Silversmiths” story in Acts 19:23-40.) You won’t see Christians destroying other people’s property there, even though such property violated the faith and was leading people astray, likely including innocent children, too.
Romans 13:1-5, and 1 Peter 2:13-17 are key Scriptures to see, too, in terms of obeying authority. Yes, there is the Acts 5:29 exception to those two passages of Scripture, but again, we can only apply Acts 5:29 to that which we are specifically COMMANDED to either do or not do.
Can we try to legally get man’s law’s changed? ABSOLUTELY!!! Can we violate man’s laws that apply to us for reasons other than following that which God has commanded us to do? Absolutely NOT!!!
So again, LatinMasslover, show me an official Church teaching(not an opinion) that commands, or even permits us to destroy other people’s property if it violates our faith and has the potential to lead others astray, and then you can apply the Acts 5:29 card. Otherwise, you’ve presented a false dichotemy(sp?) of God’s laws vs. man’s laws, when the reality of the situation is a zealous Catholic’s desires to achieve an intended Godly outcome vs. God’s laws AND man’s laws.
That’s how I see it, anyway.
As I recall, correct me if I’m wrong, Judith was not commanded by the Jewish authorities to kill a general of the opposing army while sloshed. Wasn’t God, according to the prophet Samuel, pretty perturbed when King Saul spared the property (cattle) of the enemy?
Legal and peaceful means should always be sought after first, but there are times when disobedience is justified. Nothing without prayer. As Saint Augustine says (I think it was him) “Love, and do what you will.” We’ve been very peaceful and “obedient” and society is getting worse; in other words, the “nice” approach doesn’t work. “There’s a time for war and a time for peace.” I could be wrong, but it seems we’re in a time of war.
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latinmasslover
Guest
And yet the visions St. Joan received have not been condemned.Do a google search on “Medjugorje” and over and over again you will see the following statement … *"*A certain sign of a false apparition, when Church authority is disobeyed by the apparition itself." (source)
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