Taking questions from Sabbatarians...

[Lucky_Catholic1]

So far no one can show me to keep Sunday out of the Bible.

You are also suggesting that Priest Thomas Enright was wrong, incorrect according to you.

'I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says, No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the Holy Catholic Church." Priest Thomas Enright, C.S.S.R., February 18, 1884, Printed in the American Sentinel, a New York Roman Catholic journal in June 1893, p. 173.

And Albert Smith, incorrect according to you.
“If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day… ” Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

Catholic Record must also then be incorrect according to you.
‘Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God… The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.’’ Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

Poor James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore must also be incorrect according to you.
“you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

Another wrong publication according to you.
“Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible.” The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

And this one also wrong according to you:
‘‘The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday…The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday’’ The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

Another incorrect quote according to you:
"observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Lucky,

I really do not think your point was ignored. Several of us have attempted to address this area, so maybe you need to focus on our objections rather then just restating your position.

PRmerger provide some excellent ideas. Let me add one more … The Bible contains a lot of requirements for a person’s behavior - the specific day that the Lord is honored is just one of them. So, if a group proclaims that they are ‘Sola Scriptura’ and that worship on the Sabbath is the only acceptable day - then tell me - what about the other commands:

1- male circumcision on the 8th day
2- not eating unclean foods
3- not asssociating with those who do not believe
4- ritual washings
5- stoning those who break God’s Law
6- offering animal sacrifice in the Temple (destroyed in 70AD)

As I see it, the group can’t ‘cherry pick’ God’s Law - and that is the item that essentially tells me that these so-called ‘Bible Only’ are not as they describe themselves. Addressing this major inconsistency, would be truly appreciated. And, please note - since you are making the claim that 7thDA do hold to the Bible Alone - then the burden is on you to provide at least one authorative source that agrees with your position. Someone making an unsubstantiated claim is not proof of anything.

God bless

Hey,
You are ignoring my point:
“People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.”

According to one of the previous posts it was suggested that the 7th Day Adventist Church do not hold to the Bible and Bible alone principle.

The Catholic quote I provided said they do keep to the Bible and Bible alone principle.

 

[PRmerger]

So far no one can show me to keep Sunday out of the Bible.

It’s right after the verse that says that we have to show you we believe something comes from the Bible.

You are also suggesting that Priest Thomas Enright was wrong, incorrect according to you.

Yes. He is incorrect, as far as that quote is given (without context) in that if one follows the Bible Alone one would not find Sunday worship. That is incorrect.

'I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy.

And I will offer you $1.000.000 if you can prove to me from the Bible Alone that everything we are to believe about God is found in the Bible, alone.

In fact, each and every time you quote from, say, the Gospel of Mark, you are proclaiming that you don’t go by the Bible Alone.

For you would not know that the Gospel of Mark is inspired from the Bible Alone. You know that, Lucky, from the authority of the Catholic Church.

 

[PRmerger]

Catholic Record must also then be incorrect according to you.
‘Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God… The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.’’ Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

And this quote is so wrong that even non-Catholics who have the slightest understanding of Catholicism will know how erroneous this is.

The Church is the servant of the Bible, not “above” the Bible.

From a source you can trust:

"Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant."CCC 86

 

[Pythons]

Lucky_Catholic1, it appears that you’ve got some talking points from a Seventh-day Adventist…
…Who in turn got their information by taking quotes out of context from an article that was printed many years ago in a Catholic paper.
…If you read the whole article the Catholic Mirror published you will see.

That there was NO NEW TESTAMENT Scriptures that existed in the time of the Book of Acts…
…“THE CHURCH” had authority from Christ to interpret Faith and Morals.
…How else would you explain the Apostles gathering for Worship on Sunday?

 

[Lucky_Catholic1]

I don’t believe this.
I never claimed that the Adventist Church keeps to the Bible and Bible alone principle, I just quoted fellow Catholics that wrote about it.

The Catholic Church changed to day of worship, I have provided a lot of quotes from all kinds of people and they all say the same thing.

Usually one would argue with Protestant Churches that keeps Sunday holy, cause they say it’s in the Bible, where our Catholic sources say the change is made by the Catholic Church.

How about going to our Catholic Challenge: romeschallenge.com/
I’m now quoting again, but now just from this Catholic web site.

What is Rome’s Challenge?

1. The Protestant World claims to followers of the Bible and the Bible Only
2. The Observance of Sunday is entirely a Catholic institution and not in any way based on the Bible.
3. The claims of Protestantism to Any Part (in Sunday Observance) Therein Proved to Be Groundless, Self-Contradictory, and Suicidal.
4. The Catholic Church states that the only group to truly follow the Bible are Seventh-day Adventists, because they observe the Sabbath on Saturday

The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, “Seventh-day Adventists”. Their cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God Himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New Testaments, literally obeyed by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God whilst on earth.

Doubtless, our Calvinistic brethren deserved and shared the sympathy of all the other sects, who, however, lost the opportunity of posing as martyrs in vindication of the Sabbath observance.

The Israelite respects the authority of the Old Testament only, but the Adventist, who is a Christian, accepts the New Testament on the same ground as the Old: viz…an inspired record also. He finds that the Bible, his teacher, is consistent in both parts, that the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday. The gospels plainly evince to him this fact; whilst, in the pages of the Acts of the Apostles, the Epistles, and the Apocalypse, not the vestige of an act canceling the Saturday arrangement can be found.

The Protestant world has been, from its infancy, in the sixteenth century, in thorough accord with the Catholic Church, in keeping “holy,” not Saturday, but Sunday. The discussion of the grounds that led to this unanimity of sentiment and practice for over 300 years must help toward placing Protestantism on a solid basis in this particular, should the arguments in favor of its position overcome those furnished by the Israelites and Adventists, the Bible, the sole recognized teacher of both litigants, being the umpire and witness. If, however, on the other hand, the latter furnish arguments, incontrovertible by the great mass of Protestants, both classes of litigants, appealing to their common teacher, the Bible, the great body of Protestants so far from clamoring, as they do with vigorous pertinacity for the strict keeping of Sunday, have no other recourse left than the admission that they have been teaching and practicing what is Scripturally false for over three centuries, by adopting the teaching and practice of the what they have always pretended to believe an apostate church, contrary to every warrant and teaching of sacred Scripture. To add to the intensity of this Scriptural and unpardonable blunder, it involves one of the most positive and emphatic commands of God to His servant, man: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”

No Protestant living today has ever yet obeyed that command preferring to follow the apostate church referred to than his teacher, the Bible which from Genesis to Revelation, teaches no other doctrine, should the Israelites and Seventh-day Adventists be correct. Both sides appeal to the Bible as their “infallible” teacher. Let the Bible decide whether Saturday or Sunday be the day enjoined by God. One of the two bodies must be wrong, and , whereas a false position on this all-important question involves terrible penalties, threatened by God Himself, against the transgressor of this “perpetual covenant,” we shall enter on the discussion of the merits of the arguments wielded by both sides. Neither is the discussion of this paramount subject above the capacity of ordinary minds, nor does it involve extraordinary study. It resolves itself into a few plain questions easy of solution:

 

[Lucky_Catholic1]

Here are some more Catholics talking:
Q. Have you any other proofs that they(Protestants) are not guided by the Scripture?

A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is nowhere discoverable in that Divine Book.

Q. Give some examples of both?

A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; —they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, “Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;” for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;… Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Q. In what manner can we show a Protestant, that he speaks unreasonably against fasts and abstinences?

A. Ask him why he keeps Sunday, and not Saturday, as his day of rest, since he is unwilling either to fast or to abstain. If he reply, that the Scripture orders him to keep the Sunday, but says nothing as to fasting and abstinence, tell him the Scripture speaks of Saturday or the Sabbath, but gives no command anywhere regarding Sunday or the first day of the week. If, then he neglects Saturday as a day of rest and holiness, and substitutes Sunday in its place, and this merely because such was the usage of the ancient Church, should he not, if he wishes to act consistently, observe fasting and abstinence, because the ancient Church so ordained? Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 181

Here the the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another’s feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. …
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; … Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7

 

[Lucky_Catholic1]

How about history:

1st Century

“But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day.” Jesus, Matthew 24:20

Institution Of The Sabbath
“Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” Genesis 2:1-3

Jesus
“And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.” Luke 4:16

“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” Matthew 19:16-17

“But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day.” Matthew 24:20.

Jesus asked his disciples to pray that in the flight from the doomed city of Jerusalem they would not have to flee on the Sabbath day. This flight took place in 70 A.D. (40 years after the Cross).

His Followers
“And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment.” Luke 23:56

Paul
“And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures” Acts 17:2

Paul And Gentiles
“And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God.” Acts 13:42, 44.

Here we find Gentiles in a Gentile city gathering on the Sabbath. It was not a synagogue meeting in verse 44, for it says almost the whole city came together, verse 42 says they asked to hear the message the “next Sabbath.”

John
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day.” Rev. 1:10 (Mark 2:28, Isa.58:13, Ex.20:10, Clearly show the Sabbath to be the Lord’s day).

Josephus
“There is not any city of the Grecians, nor any of the Barbarians, nor any nation whatsoever, whither our custom of resting on the seventh day hath not come!” M’Clatchie, “Notes and Queries on China and Japan” (edited by Dennys), Vol 4, Nos 7, 8, p.100.

Philo
Declares the seventh day to be a festival, not of this or of that city, but of the universe. M’Clatchie, “Notes and Queries,” Vol. 4, 99

2nd Century

“It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord’s day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour’s death.” - A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath, p. 77

Early Christians
“The primitive Christians had a great veneration for the Sabbath, and spent the day in devotion and sermons. And it is not to be doubted but they derived this practice from the Apostles themselves, as appears by several scriptures to the purpose.” “Dialogues on the Lord’s Day,” p. 189. London: 1701, By Dr. T.H. Morer (A Church of England divine).

Early Christians
“…The Sabbath was a strong tie which united them with the life of the whole people, and in keeping the Sabbath holy they followed not only the example but also the command of Jesus.” “Geschichte des Sonntags,” pp.13, 14

2nd Century Christians
“The Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath,” Gieseler’s “Church History,” Vol.1, ch. 2, par. 30, 93.

Early Christians
“The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews;…therefore the Christians, for a long time together, did keep their conventions upon the Sabbath, in which some portions of the law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council.” “The Whole Works” of Jeremy Taylor, Vol. IX,p. 416 (R. Heber’s Edition, Vol XII, p. 416).

Early Church
“It is certain that the ancient Sabbath did remain and was observed (together with the celebration of the Lord’s day) by the Christians of the East Church, above three hundred years after our Saviour’s death.” “A Learned Treatise of the Sabbath,” p. 77

Note: By the “Lord’s day” here the writer means Sunday and not the true Sabbath," which the Bible says is the Sabbath. This quotation shows Sunday coming into use in the early centuries soon after the death of the Apostles. Paul the Apostle foretold a great “falling away” from the Truth that would take place soon after his death.

2nd, 3rd, 4th Centuries
“From the apostles’ time until the council of Laodicea, which was about the year 364, the holy observance of the Jews’ Sabbath continued, as may be proved out of many authors: yea, notwithstanding the decree of the council against it.” “Sunday a Sabbath.” John Ley, p.163. London: 1640.

 

[Lucky_Catholic1]

3rd Century

“The seventh-day Sabbath was…solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it.” “Dissertation on the Lord’s Day,” pp. 33, 34

Egypt (Oxyrhynchus Papyrus) (200-250 A.D.)
“Except ye make the sabbath a real sabbath (sabbatize the Sabbath,” Greek), ye shall not see the Father." “The oxyrhynchus Papyri,” pt,1, p.3, Logion 2, verso 4-11 (London Offices of the Egypt Exploration Fund, 1898).

Early Christians-C 3rd
“Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence: it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands.” “The Anti-Nicene Fathers,” Vol 7,p. 413. From “Constitutions of the Holy Apostles,” a document of the 3rd and 4th Centuries.

Africa (Alexandria) Origen
“After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to keep also the festival of the Sabbath. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is, a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God (Hebrews 4:9).” “Homily on Numbers 23,” par.4, in Migne, “Patrologia Graeca,” Vol. 12,cols. 749, 750.

Palestine to India (Church of the East)
As early as A.D. 225 there existed lallrge bishoprics or conferences of the Church of the East (Sabbath-keeping) stretching from Palestine to India. Mingana, “Early Spread of Christianity.” Vol.10, p. 460.

India (Buddhist Controversy, 220 A.D.)
The Kushan Dynasty of North India called a famous council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath. Some had been so impressed by the writings of the Old Testament that they had begun to keep holy the Sabbath. Lloyd, “The Creed of Half Japan,” p. 23.

Early Christians
“The seventh-day Sabbath was…solemnised by Christ, the Apostles, and primitive Christians, till the Laodicean Council did in manner quite abolish the observations of it.” “Dissertation on the Lord’s Day,” pp. 33, 34

4th Century
“When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.” Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan gave rise to this proverb by stating that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome he observed Sunday. (See page 70 in this Online version of Truth Triumphant)

Italy AND EAST-C 4th
“It was the practice generally of the Easterne Churches; and some churches of the west…For in the Church of Millaine (Milan);…it seems the Saturday was held in a farre esteeme… Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme (Judaism); but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus (Jesus) Christ the Lord of the Sabbath.” “History of the Sabbath” (original spelling retained), Part 2, par. 5, pp.73, 74. London: 1636. Dr. Heylyn.

Italy - Milan
“Ambrose, the celebrated bishop of Milan, said that when he was in Milan he observed Saturday, but when in Rome observed Sunday. This gave rise to the proverb, ‘When you are in Rome, do as Rome does.’” Heylyn, “The History of the Sabbath” (1612)

Orient And Most Of World
“The ancient Christians were very careful in the observance of Saturday, or the seventh day…It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival…Athanasius likewise tells us that they held religious assembles on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, Epiphanius says the same.” “Antiquities of the Christian Church,” Vol.II Book XX, chap. 3, sec.1, 66. 1137,1138.

Abyssinia - Remnants of Philip’s Evangelism
“In the last half of that century St. Ambrose of Milan stated officially that the Abyssinian bishop, Museus, had ‘traveled almost everywhere in the country of the Seres’ (China). For more than seventeen centuries the Abyssinian Church continued to sanctify Saturday as the holy day of the fourth commandment.” Ambrose, DeMoribus, Brachmanorium Opera Ominia, 1132, found in Migne, Patrologia Latima, Vol.17, pp.1131,1132.

Arabia, Persia, India, China
“Mingana proves that in 370 A.D. Abyssinian Christianity (a Sabbath keeping church) was so popular that its famous director, Musacus, travelled extensively in the East promoting the church in Arabia, Persia, India and China.” "Truth Triumphant,"p.308 (Footnote 27). (Page numbers vary in this Online version)

Spain - Council Elvira (A.D.305)
Canon 26 of the Council of Elvira reveals that the Church of Spainat that time kept Saturday, the seventh day. “As to fasting every Sabbath: Resolved, that the error be corrected of fasting every Sabbath.” This resolution of the council is in direct opposition to the policy the church at Rome had inaugurated, that of commanding Sabbath as a fast day in order to humiliate it and make it repugnant to the people.

Spain
It is a point of further interest to note that in north-eastern Spainnear the city of Barcelona is a city called Sabadell, in a district originaly inhabited. By a people called both “Valldenses” and Sabbatati."

Persia-A.D. 335-375 (40 Years Persecution Under Shapur II)
The popular complaint against the Christians-“They despise our sungod, they have divine services on Saturday, they desecrate the sacred the earth by burying their dead in it.” Truth Triumphant," (Online Version p. 261)

Persia-A.D.335-375
“They despise our sun-god. Did not Zorcaster, the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday.” O’Leary, “The Syriac Church and Fathers,” pp.83, 84.

 

[Lucky_Catholic1]

Council Laodicea - A.D.365
“Canon 16-On Saturday the Gospels and other portions of the Scripture shall be read aloud.” “Canon 29-Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday, but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day.” Hefele’s “Councils,” Vol. 2, b. 6.

How about another source for a change, theseventhday.tv/timeline.shtml.
let’s look at the people behind this site:

Catholic Source Mentioned:
John O’Malley, SJ, PhD
Weston Jesuit School of Theology

Other groups:
Robert J. Bartlett, PhD
University of St. Andrews (Scotland)
Tamara C. Eskenazi, PhD
Hebrew Union College
Dennis Martin, PhD
Loyola University Chicago
Robert J. Bartlett, PhD
University of St. Andrews
Alexis McCrossen, PhD
Southern Methodist University
Ronald Mellor, PhD
UCLA
Michael Mullett, PhD
University of Lancaster (England)
Aideen O’Leary, PhD
University of Notre Dame
Jonathan Spence, PhD
Yale University
Burton Visotzky, PhD
Jewish Theological Seminary

To End:

The way I see it, if you reject that the Catholic Church changed to day from Saturday to Sunday, then you reject the Authority of the Pope.
“Protestants … accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change… But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that … in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

 

[PRmerger]

The Catholic Church changed to day of worship,

Only because the NT proclaims this to be the day of worship, Lucky.

And does not the Catholic Church have authority to discern the will of God?

Or do you not accept the Catholic Church’s decision to declare for you that the Gospel of Mark is inspired?

Is there some other way you know that the Gospel of Mark is inspired? If so, how do you know it is, without the Catholic Church telling you it is theopneustos?

I have provided a lot of quotes from all kinds of people and they all say the same thing.

They do say that the Catholic Church has the authority to follow what the NT proclaimed.

No Catholic ought disagree with you on that.

 

[PRmerger]

How about going to our Catholic Challenge: romeschallenge.com/
I’m now quoting again, but now just from this Catholic web site.

This website, folks, is full of errors.

[SIGN1]It is NOT a Catholic website.[/SIGN1]

Fair warning to all!

Best, Lucky, to stay away from things purporting to be Catholic that have divorced themselves from the One True Faith.

And lest you think that anything with the word “Catholic” attached to it is representative of the actual Catholic faith, I will refer you to this site, which also claims to be Catholic.

women-churchconvergence.org/

You will note that the Catholic Church does not sanction the ordination of women, yet this group proclaims to be Catholic and yet embraces doctrines which are contrary to the faith.

 

[PRmerger]

Here the the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another’s feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. …
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; … Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7

Amen!

Finally, something authoritative that is representative of the Catholic Faith!

 

[PRmerger]

Here the the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

Amen!

And the Catholic Church did this based on Scripture and Tradition.

Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another’s feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. …
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; … Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7

Haha! Why is it called Controversial Catechism, Lucky?

 

[PRmerger]

Lucky_Catholic1:

The way I see it, if you reject that the Catholic Church changed to day from Saturday to Sunday, then you reject the Authority of the Pope.
“Protestants … accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change… But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that … in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.

Amen!!

 

[andrewstx]

I am not sure that Lucky_ really is a Catholic at all.

All her talking points come from SDA literature, and none from Catholic except as misquoted in SDA literature.

I hope I am incorrect and she is not on her way to the SDA cult.

I pray for Lucky_ and hope we all do.

 

[Pythons]

I was thinking the same thing - there have been SDA’s that come here and one I remember posting in the same style…
…My guess is that this individual also has information on why Christ could have sinned and lost His own Salvation.
…That’s really the “pay dirt” Doctrine of the SDA’s.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Lucky,

I have been just a bit surprised at the entire content of your posts. My surprise comes from the fact that you identify yourself as a ‘Catholic’ but have yet to come up with anyting in support of Catholic doctrine. Now, when it comes to supporting 7th DA doctrine - including a link supporting 7th DA misapplication of statements, that is a different story.

So, rather then the polemic you have launched, why not just take a moment to answer just one question. In Matt 16, Christ gives the command to Peter to bind and release as he choses - and then Christ gives Peter the Keys to signify Peter’s singular role as leader of the Apostles. So, what part of, “WHATEVER…” are you not understanding? And, yes, I am as serious as a heart attack.

Either you believe Christ gave this unlimited Power to Peter - and his successors - or, you don’t. There really isn’t any ‘wiggle room’ on this.

Remember, the Bible you are claiming as the sole authority (and this, too, is just the opposite of Catholic teaching) did not exist as we have it today (and Protestants have the abridged version) until about the year 400AD. This means for the first 300 years the Canon of Sacred Scripture did not exist. Note, once the Canon was approved it was accepted by all in Christianity. As you may guess, this is the same Bible that Luther, Henry VIII and Calvin believed in before they revolted from the Catholic Church. And all of them believed in worship on Sunday - not Saturday. Actually, here is a non-Catholic source that does points out several errors in your argument: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity

It is just my opinion, but it appears as though you are ignoring PRmerger’s posts. This does not really help your argument…or, your presentations. But, let’s not get ahead of ourselves … Just tell me what kind of limitations YOU are placing on Christ’s statement to Peter in Matthew 16 where Christ did not place any limitiations. So, let me hear what you have to say.

God bless

I don’t believe this.
I never claimed that the Adventist Church keeps to the Bible and Bible alone principle, I just quoted fellow Catholics that wrote about it.

The Catholic Church changed to day of worship, I have provided a lot of quotes from all kinds of people and they all say the same thing.

Usually one would argue with Protestant Churches that keeps Sunday holy, cause they say it’s in the Bible, where our Catholic sources say the change is made by the Catholic Church.

How about going to our Catholic Challenge: romeschallenge.com/
I’m now quoting again, but now just from this Catholic web site.

What is Rome’s Challenge?

1. The Protestant World claims to followers of the Bible and the Bible Only
2. The Observance of Sunday is entirely a Catholic institution and not in any way based on the Bible.
3. The claims of Protestantism to Any Part (in Sunday Observance) Therein Proved to Be Groundless, Self-Contradictory, and Suicidal.
4. The Catholic Church states that the only group to truly follow the Bible are Seventh-day Adventists, because they observe the Sabbath on Saturday

QUOTE]

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Pythons,

Amazing! Do these guys believe Christ is God?

Well - I guess we know what to look for …! Let’s see what develops!

God bless

I was thinking the same thing - there have been SDA’s that come here and one I remember posting in the same style…
…My guess is that this individual also has information on why Christ could have sinned and lost His own Salvation.
…That’s really the “pay dirt” Doctrine of the SDA’s.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Andrewstx,

I think you are 100% correct on this matter.

On the surface - ignoring genuine Catholic sites to use questionable ones is questionable behavior. Now, maybe Lucky just doesn’t have any authoriative Catholic sites… so… here is one that should cast a lot of light on this topic: scripturecatholic.com/sunday_worship.html

Prayer is a very good idea!

God bless

I am not sure that Lucky_ really is a Catholic at all.

All her talking points come from SDA literature, and none from Catholic except as misquoted in SDA literature.

I hope I am incorrect and she is not on her way to the SDA cult.

I pray for Lucky_ and hope we all do.