Taking The Lord's Name in Vain

[Danny_OC]

Is it sinful to read, outloud, a passage from a book or play that includes taking the Lord’s name in vain? (G-- D— is everywhere today) My guess is yes; if so, how would you go about avoiding doing that when such a situation arises?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Is it sinful to read, outloud, a passage from a book or play that includes taking the Lord’s name in vain? (G-- D— is everywhere today) My guess is yes; if so, how would you go about avoiding doing that when such a situation arises?

Hi,
Funny, we were just discussing this at dinner tonight. My son (9)was telling us that one of his classmates uses Christ’s name in vain. THIRD GRADER
I believe in any situation this is sinful. If it was a play I would ask the director if the words were necessary. If He said yes then I would say," Im sorry but I cannot repeat those words because I do not want to take the Lord’s name in vain"(even though it would be acting). There is no need to promote it.

If it were a book, I would skip over it. If someone asks you why you skipped over it --What a great opportunity to witness Christ to them:thumbsup: Or at the very least tell them you are uncomfortable repeating such language used against God.

 

[rpp]

Hi,
Funny, we were just discussing this at dinner tonight. My son (9)was telling us that one of his classmates uses Christ’s name in vain. THIRD GRADER
I believe in any situation this is sinful. If it was a play I would ask the director if the words were necessary. If He said yes then I would say," Im sorry but I cannot repeat those words because I do not want to take the Lord’s name in vain"(even though it would be acting). There is no need to promote it.

If it were a book, I would skip over it. If someone asks you why you skipped over it --What a great opportunity to witness Christ to them:thumbsup: Or at the very least tell them you are uncomfortable repeating such language used against God.

I am completely with you on this ALLFORHIM. My conversion from atheism to Catholicism was both sudden and miraculous. After being an atheist for more than 20 years, all my adult life, (I became an atheist when I was about 18 or 19.) my vocabulary was, well, colorful.

One of the most obvious external signs of my conversion was my sudden inability use any form of profanity. Within a week, even my co-workers noticed. I now wince when I read the very mild forms and the kind that can be said on prime-time TV.

But the hearing or seeing the Lord’s name used in vain gives me almost physical pain.

It is, to me, the worst type of profanity possible. I there is no reason to ever repeat it, even when quoting or reading something.

By the way, I like your signature line! You are proof that even non-Catholics Christians understand this! Thank you.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I am completely with you on this ALLFORHIM. My conversion from atheism to Catholicism was both sudden and miraculous. After being an atheist for more than 20 years, all my adult life, (I became an atheist when I was about 18 or 19.) my vocabulary was, well, colorful.

One of the most obvious external signs of my conversion was my sudden inability use any form of profanity. Within a week, even my co-workers noticed. I now wince when I read the very mild forms and the kind that can be said on prime-time TV.

But the hearing or seeing the Lord’s name used in vain gives me almost physical pain.

It is, to me, the worst type of profanity possible. I there is no reason to ever repeat it, even when quoting or reading something.

By the way, I like your signature line! You are proof that even non-Catholics Christians understand this! Thank you.

Isnt the Lord GREAT how He changes us when we allow Him too:thumbsup:

I too feel pain when I hear the Lord’s name in vain. I cringe

 

[Tilde]

Hi Danny,

Sorry this is a long post, but it’s something I feel strongly about. I hope it helps.

As a young actress, I used to cringe whenever I saw “g-d” in a script. Even in character, I just didn’t want to say it. So one day, I just didn’t. I stuck with the rest of the script and just left that word out, and here’s the great thing: no one cared.

Most decent directors understand that a lot of people have a problem using God’s name as a curse, and will respect that. In fact, you’d be surprised how many times these curses are written in scripts but don’t make it to the stage or screen, simply because the actor doesn’t want to go there. As an actor, you typically have a little bit of license in your phrasing, so if you’re good at what you do and stay true to your character, you should be fine.

Now, you might be unlucky enough to have a director who disagrees with your choice to drop the curse. That’s when you need to make a choice. You can do what the director wants, or you can say no. That can be hard when it’s a paying gig. But then again, if you’re good at what you do, you might be able to stand your ground and still keep the job. If not, you’re probably working with a director who doesn’t respect his actors’ choices and you’d probably run into problems with him in the long run anyway. This isn’t permission to be a “diva”–just to stick to your guns on the important stuff. I know that God doesn’t convict us of something and then leave us hanging when we obey Him.

Now, if you’re in school, and it’s your english teacher or drama teacher that gives you a hard time, that’s a little different. If that does happen, don’t be afraid to stand your ground. No one can MAKE you say something you don’t want (visit ACLJ.org to research the law regarding this). But make sure you’re not alone. Talk to your parents and/or a teacher or someone in authority at school. You have every right–morally and legally–to your convictions, and if they are challenged, you’ll want someone by your side to support you.

It’s good to hear that there are still people who care about this. I know this was long, but I hope it encourages you. Just keep honoring God in your life, and He’ll take care of the rest.

~Tilde

 

[Khariz]

See, I have a different take on this than most of the people who have posted here in this thread.

I have always thought of taking the Lord’s name in vain as an “intention thing” and not a “technicality thing”.

I would ask that everyone concede that God’s name is likely not actually “God”. I have thought about this for many years. Jewish folks for many years have avoided even typing the word God by taking out the “o”, as in G-d. At best, the word God is a translation of a name from another language. At worst, it’s completely meaningless except for the meaning we give it. If you think God’s name is really YHVH for example, the word G.O.D. should be less meaningful to you.

I’m getting to my point, I promise. One more example though. Praying in Jesus’ name isn’t done because we pray to the letters J.e.s.u.s. It’s important because of the intention. The meaning of praying to the Son of God who is part of the Trinity. Whether he is Jesus or Yeshua or Iesus, or whatever, you now WHO you are playing.

I started thinking of this when I hear people merely “Edit” what they say from the literal words “God Damn” (sorry for those that offends) to the words “Dad Gummit” or “Dag Nabit”, etc. If your intention is to function as taking the Lord’s name in vain (which my intention here is not to, but to discuss), but you choose different words, I feel that you have thus taken the Lord’s name in vain anyway, even if you didn’t chose to actually say the word “God.”

Again, my personal reason for this believe is that since God is likely not actually God’s literal name, the act of using it in “Taking the Lord’s name in vain” is just as “symbolic” as angrily saying “DAD GUM” but intending the same function.

It’s your anger, frustration, callousness, etc coupled with saying those words with that intention that makes the taking of the Lords name in vain, and not the literal technical words themselves.

That’s my two cents.

Edit: Oh, forgot to relate this to the Original Poster. Since reading the words aloud would not include the intention, I do not think it would be taking the Lord’s name in vain. If you got all dramatic about it and enjoyed the feel of enunciating it with the proper intention behind it, then perhaps it would be. Just merely reading or saying it in the context of explanation, though, lacks the requisite intent.

 

[Danny_OC]

See, I have a different take on this than most of the people who have posted here in this thread.

I have always thought of taking the Lord’s name in vain as an “intention thing” and not a “technicality thing”.

I would ask that everyone concede that God’s name is likely not actually “God”. I have thought about this for many years. Jewish folks for many years have avoided even typing the word God by taking out the “o”, as in G-d. At best, the word God is a translation of a name from another language. At worst, it’s completely meaningless except for the meaning we give it. If you think God’s name is really YHVH for example, the word G.O.D. should be less meaningful to you.

I’m getting to my point, I promise. One more example though. Praying in Jesus’ name isn’t done because we pray to the letters J.e.s.u.s. It’s important because of the intention. The meaning of praying to the Son of God who is part of the Trinity. Whether he is Jesus or Yeshua or Iesus, or whatever, you now WHO you are playing.

I started thinking of this when I hear people merely “Edit” what they say from the literal words “God Damn” (sorry for those that offends) to the words “Dad Gummit” or “Dag Nabit”, etc. If your intention is to function as taking the Lord’s name in vain (which my intention here is not to, but to discuss), but you choose different words, I feel that you have thus taken the Lord’s name in vain anyway, even if you didn’t chose to actually say the word “God.”

Again, my personal reason for this believe is that since God is likely not actually God’s literal name, the act of using it in “Taking the Lord’s name in vain” is just “symbolic” as angrily saying “DAD GUM” but intending the same function.

It’s your anger, frustration, callousness, etc coupled with saying those words with that intention that makes the taking of the Lords name in vain, and not the literal technical words themselves.

That’s my two cents.

Edit: Oh, forgot to relate this to the Original Poster. Since reading the words aloud would not include the intention, I do not think it would be taking the Lord’s name in vain. If you got all dramatic about it and enjoyed the feel of enunciating it with the proper intention behind it, then perhaps it would be. Just merely reading or saying it in the context of explanation, though, lacks the requisite intent.

But what is a name, even a correct name, except a symbol for what it refers to? Even if the name is “incorrect,” it still refers to the same thing, thus in a way making it equally valid. Therefore even if we are wrong about “God” being His technical name, taking that word in vain would be just as sinful as taking his actual name in vain.

Thank you all very much for your responses to my post, they’re very helpful!

 

[Khariz]

But what is a name, even a correct name, except a symbol for what it refers to? Even if the name is “incorrect,” it still refers to the same thing, thus in a way making it equally valid. Therefore even if we are wrong about “God” being His technical name, taking that word in vain would be just as sinful as taking his actual name in vain.

Thank you all very much for your responses to my post, they’re very helpful!

No, see that’s my whole point. The name without the intention, means nothing.

The thing is, there are so very few times where it would be likely that you would say G.D. and NOT mean it to be taking the Lord’s name it vain, that you might as well just not say it at all. Also, saying it without the intention once might bring you to indifference about it and could lead to you saying it with intention later.

I’m not saying it’s just plain “okay” to say it, but that I don’t think the mere words themselves are inherantly sinful. Kind of like glancing at a beautiful woman and admiring her beauty without lustful thoughts is not sinful.

 

[mlchance]

No, see that’s my whole point. The name without the intention, means nothing.

Intention doesn’t change an immoral act into a moral act. All it can do is lessen culpability. So, if I whack my thumb with a hammer, and let fly in the heat of the moment, I have still done wrong, but there’s no pressing need to rush to Confession.

If, however, I choose to break any of the Commandments with full consent of my will and knowledge of what I’m doing, then I have almost certainly committed a mortal sin.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Newbie2]

No, see that’s my whole point. The name without the intention, means nothing.

The thing is, there are so very few times where it would be likely that you would say G.D. and NOT mean it to be taking the Lord’s name it vain, that you might as well just not say it at all. Also, saying it without the intention once might bring you to indifference about it and could lead to you saying it with intention later.

I’m not saying it’s just plain “okay” to say it, but that I don’t think the mere words themselves are inherantly sinful. Kind of like glancing at a beautiful woman and admiring her beauty without lustful thoughts is not sinful.

I disagree with that analogy. The commandment says that we should not take the name of the Lord in vain. If one says it out loud, one has done so. The only “out” would be if you happened to maybe repeat what you’d heard in a different language, not understanding what you’d said.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with admiring beauty.

But, that aside, two other points:

1. When I was working on my son’s bike, and he was 2, I slipped and gashed open my forehead on the seat post…and uttered an unrestrained God-****!. My tape-recorder son went around for an hour saying G’dm! G’dm! I knew what he was parroting, fortunately his mother didn’t hear me and did not.
2. When even talking about someone else who said Gn, in context, I substitute “GD”. Disagree or not, I don’t want anyone thinking that I think it’s OK to say Gn, even though my intent in telling a story is to say that ***they ***said it, not me.

 

[Khariz]

I disagree with that analogy. The commandment says that we should not take the name of the Lord in vain. If one says it out loud, one has done so. The only “out” would be if you happened to maybe repeat what you’d heard in a different language, not understanding what you’d said.

Again, please go back and read the FIRST post of mine in the thread.

You can take the Lord’s name in vein without saying God, Lord, Jesus, or Holy Spirit, if you intend for some alternate word to be substituted with the same intention. And by the same token, it’s possible to actually say the words, even aloud, and not have the requisite state of mind to be taking His name in vein.

I’ll give you two EXTREME examples, just to let you ponder what I’m saying:

1. A two year old hears someone genuinly take the Lord’s name in vein, perhaps with your “hitting the thumb with a hammer” example. The two year old then begins sporadically repeating the outburst. The two year old is innocent of taking the Lord’s name in vein. He doesn’t have the requisite state of mind necessary to actually be doing it.
2. A seriously mentally ill person is rocking back and forth and babbling nonsensically to himself. Occasionnally during the babbling, G.D. manifests itself. Nothing the guy ever says makes any sense, and he has no comprehensible communicative skills. He probably isn’t saying it to actually take the Lord’s name in vein. He has not clue what he’s saying, nor do we.

I call those EXTREME examples because I can think of others that are less extreme, but still aren’t the same thing as taking the Lord’s name in vein.

Little Susie (7 years old) is playing with her big brother Bobby (12 years old). Bobby hurts himself while they were playing outside and exclaims “G** D***”. Susie runs inside to mommy and says “Mom, Bobby just said G** D***”. Bobby took the Lord’s name in vein, Susie didn’t. Susie used it as a narritive explanation.

The reason I ask that you go back and read my first post in this thread, is because it’s important whether or not the words Lord, or God, are actually God’s name in deciding whether or not “Taking the Lord’s name in vein” is a Technical or State of Mind issue. Given that any word we use (at least in English) for any of God’s names also has alternate meaning, I propose to you that it’s of the latter type. Note, I’m not saying it’s a Subjective State of Mind issue, I’m saying it’s an Objective State of Mind Issue.

 

[Newbie2]

OK, I see your point better now. We agree.

 

[Danny_OC]

On a similar note, would you see phrases like “Oh My God!” as examples of taking the lord’s name in vain; or are they not vain uses when not used negatively, and instead are good reminders to keep Him in mind?

 

[Khariz]

On a similar note, would you see phrases like “Oh My God!” as examples of taking the lord’s name in vain; or are they not vain uses when not used negatively, and instead are good reminders to keep Him in mind?

That’s a good question. Because of the normal intent behind it, I have always seen it as similar to making the sign of the cross when you see something horrible, or something like that.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

On a similar note, would you see phrases like “Oh My God!” as examples of taking the lord’s name in vain; or are they not vain uses when not used negatively, and instead are good reminders to keep Him in mind?

I dont particularly like this either. His name is being used with no thought . I believe orthodox jews wont even say His name at all out of respect.

I am working on gettting my kids and myself to stop saying His name unless you are talking to Him orabout Him in a positive reverent way. It is a hard habit to break But a good one to break:thumbsup:
May I add : I think many of us dont know what the word vain means.
It means “uselessly” or “to no avail” Taking the Lord’s name in vain means to speak it irreverently,uselssly, because we’re not really addressing Him.
To do this shows Him that we have contempt for Him. Perhaps without knowing it, we are taking something weighty and powerful and trying to diminish it, cheapen it, by the way we use it.

 

[rpp]

I dont particularly like this either. His name is being used with no thought . I believe orthodox jews wont even say His name at all out of respect.

I am working on gettting my kids and myself to stop saying His name unless you are talking to Him orabout Him in a positive reverent way. It is a hard habit to break But a good one to break:thumbsup:
May I add : I think many of us dont know what the word vain means.
It means “uselessly” or “to no avail” Taking the Lord’s name in vain means to speak it irreverently,uselssly, because we’re not really addressing Him.
To do this shows Him that we have contempt for Him. Perhaps without knowing it, we are taking something weighty and powerful and trying to diminish it, cheapen it, by the way we use it.

Well said! Especially the part where you reminded us what the phrase “in vain” really means. Thank you.