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Psychotheosophy
Guest
What is the common ground between,
Taoism and Catholicism?
Taoism and Catholicism?
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DavidMark
Guest
This is an interesting and refreshing subject!
Lao Tsu, the author of Tao te Ching, never claimed a cognate prophetic station, as far as I know, but his was one of the first books to encourage me to study other traditions, in the late 60s.
One version of the opening of his book says:
"The way that can be named is not the constant way"
another version says:
There are ways but the Way is uncharted;
…nameless inded is the source of creation.
But things have a mother and she has a name.
What is stressed here, in my way of thinking,
is not something divisive or particulate
but the Unknowable Essence.
Perhaps this is what the Gospel calls the Father, whom no one has ever seen.
Meek Christ is the Image of the Father, like the sun’s reflection in a mirror.
Astronomers can study the reflection all they want,
but no one can ever approach the core of the sun…
no one can ever encompass the awesome Mystery of mysteries: The Eternal.
Why? Because we are finite, we are made, we have built-in obsolesence.
Whatever spirit we are after death is God’s to do with as He wishes,
because He owns the entire creation, and is its supreme provider and protector.
“I have heard say, ‘The man of Tao has no (concern for) reputation; the truly virtuous has no (concern for) possessions; the truly great man ignores self.’ This is the height of self-discipline.”
“But how then,” asked the Spirit of the River, “arise the distinctions of high and low, of great and small in the material and immaterial aspects of things?”
“From the point of view of Tao,” replied the Spirit of the Ocean, "there are no such distinctions of high and low. From the point of view of individuals, each holds himself high and holds others low. From the vulgar point of view, high and low (honors and dishonor) are some thing conferred by others. “In regard to distinctions, if we say that a thing is great or small by its own standard of great or small, then there is nothing in all creation which is not great, nothing which is not small. To know that the universe is but as a tare-seed, and the tip of a hair is (as big as) a mountain, – this is the expression of relativity…” ~Chuangtse (Lin Yutang tr)
Lao Tsu, the author of Tao te Ching, never claimed a cognate prophetic station, as far as I know, but his was one of the first books to encourage me to study other traditions, in the late 60s.
One version of the opening of his book says:
"The way that can be named is not the constant way"
another version says:
There are ways but the Way is uncharted;
…nameless inded is the source of creation.
But things have a mother and she has a name.
What is stressed here, in my way of thinking,
is not something divisive or particulate
but the Unknowable Essence.
Perhaps this is what the Gospel calls the Father, whom no one has ever seen.
Meek Christ is the Image of the Father, like the sun’s reflection in a mirror.
Astronomers can study the reflection all they want,
but no one can ever approach the core of the sun…
no one can ever encompass the awesome Mystery of mysteries: The Eternal.
Why? Because we are finite, we are made, we have built-in obsolesence.
Whatever spirit we are after death is God’s to do with as He wishes,
because He owns the entire creation, and is its supreme provider and protector.
“I have heard say, ‘The man of Tao has no (concern for) reputation; the truly virtuous has no (concern for) possessions; the truly great man ignores self.’ This is the height of self-discipline.”
“But how then,” asked the Spirit of the River, “arise the distinctions of high and low, of great and small in the material and immaterial aspects of things?”
“From the point of view of Tao,” replied the Spirit of the Ocean, "there are no such distinctions of high and low. From the point of view of individuals, each holds himself high and holds others low. From the vulgar point of view, high and low (honors and dishonor) are some thing conferred by others. “In regard to distinctions, if we say that a thing is great or small by its own standard of great or small, then there is nothing in all creation which is not great, nothing which is not small. To know that the universe is but as a tare-seed, and the tip of a hair is (as big as) a mountain, – this is the expression of relativity…” ~Chuangtse (Lin Yutang tr)
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John92
Guest
Taoism is a tough nut to crack . . . to say the least. It’s hard for me to say how similar Lao-Tzu was to Christ because I can’t really say I understand him.
Still though if I had to say something, based on my limited knowledge (intro to eastern religions course and I read the Tao Te Ching), probably pretty similar to the other eastern religions in terms of relationship to Christianity: there’s a lot of good stuff (the badness of the ego, the necessity for a simple life, etc.), but also some big philosophical errors, and, besides that, the whole “does God exist?” “was Christ God?” issue.
Still though if I had to say something, based on my limited knowledge (intro to eastern religions course and I read the Tao Te Ching), probably pretty similar to the other eastern religions in terms of relationship to Christianity: there’s a lot of good stuff (the badness of the ego, the necessity for a simple life, etc.), but also some big philosophical errors, and, besides that, the whole “does God exist?” “was Christ God?” issue.
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
According to a catholic perspective,
The Christ is called “the Way”
God is called “The Way.”
God is a “mystery.”
God is unchanging
And therefore constant.
A “mystery” is called thus
Because it is infinite.
It can be known,
But not fully.
A mystery is, therefore,
“Charted” and yet “uncharted.”
Is there a division between
A knowable essence and
An unknowable essence?
The Christ refers to himself as “mother-like”…
The Christ (God, The Way,…),
Is also called “Existence”
But neither “Existence”
Nor “mother-like”
Fully describe God.
The next stanza of the same poem #1 reads:
Is this similar to …?
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DavidMark
Guest
These are intriguing relationships which could enrich the position of both traditions.
Lao Tzu’s ideology is the one of the most unthreatening there is.
To me, all he concerns himself with is God! He intuitively learns from Nature, which does not argue with the will of God, but submits to it unreservedly, because it has no choice.
What is sin in mankind, such as greed, violence, infanticide etc. is not sin among lions.
Here are a few syllogisms that illustrate my Bahá’í perspective:
1 God ‘altereth not’. ‘His Name, the Creator, presupposes a creation’. There has always been a Creation.
2 ‘All are created by God’ and ‘the Lord God is good’, so ‘all that God created He created good’;
3 …the part cannot possess perfections whereof the whole is deprived.
('Abdu’l-Bahá,Tablet to August Forel, p. 11)
**Man possesses certain virtues of which nature is deprived. **
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 79)
**The truth is that God has given to man certain powers which are supernatural. **
('Abdu’l-Bahá,PUP, p. 17)
Lao Tzu’s ideology is the one of the most unthreatening there is.
To me, all he concerns himself with is God! He intuitively learns from Nature, which does not argue with the will of God, but submits to it unreservedly, because it has no choice.
What is sin in mankind, such as greed, violence, infanticide etc. is not sin among lions.
Here are a few syllogisms that illustrate my Bahá’í perspective:
1 God ‘altereth not’. ‘His Name, the Creator, presupposes a creation’. There has always been a Creation.
2 ‘All are created by God’ and ‘the Lord God is good’, so ‘all that God created He created good’;
3 …the part cannot possess perfections whereof the whole is deprived.
('Abdu’l-Bahá,Tablet to August Forel, p. 11)
**Man possesses certain virtues of which nature is deprived. **
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 79)
**The truth is that God has given to man certain powers which are supernatural. **
('Abdu’l-Bahá,PUP, p. 17)
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DavidMark
Guest
We can neither grasp the entirety of God’s Immutable Mystery nor can we grasp the mystery within the merest atom, which contains its own sign of God.
Psyhotheosophy: I am particularly interested in Mysteries, and made a lengthy compilation which shows that you are quite right, --we can only see a part of the infinite in everything, including our own psyche, even though our sciences increase their scope. Here is a partial Table of Contents:
Psyhotheosophy: I am particularly interested in Mysteries, and made a lengthy compilation which shows that you are quite right, --we can only see a part of the infinite in everything, including our own psyche, even though our sciences increase their scope. Here is a partial Table of Contents:
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
Mankind has no choice in being loved by God.
And,
Nature has no choice in having Existence.
Yet,
Mankind often chooses to fear,
Losing Existence and the love of God.
And,
Nature seems to fear nothing.
Why is this so?
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Siddhartha
Guest
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StormSurfer
Guest
I have seen some Christians claim to be Taoists, and maybe they are, but I do not see how you can follow the TTC and the Bible. I do not see how you can see God as Tao, or Tao as God, or God above Tao, when Tao is all and nothing.
I guess it’s your opinion that matters when it comes to Taoism and Catholicism.
I guess it’s your opinion that matters when it comes to Taoism and Catholicism.
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Siddhartha
Guest
God is all and nothing. God is all because God is the very being of all. God is nothing because no thing, no idea, no word, can fully capture Who God is.
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StormSurfer
Guest
So you believe Tao is God? Good for you then, but if this is true, we are all God? I know Tao is everything and nothing, so I am Tao, and I am also not Tao, but I am God and not God? I am pretty sure that isn’t how most Christians see it.
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choy
Guest
isn’t The Foce in Star Wars based on Taoism?
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StormSurfer
Guest
I am pretty sure I seen something where George Lucas got the idea from Chi. I am not sure though. I do not think humans will ever strengthen Chi or master it enough to ever get close to the Jedi lol.
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choy
Guest
but the concept of a “force” that is around us all, including the light and dark sides (yin and yang) all do see to point a Taoist origin including The Force flowing within you and around you, and being one with The Force
and i did see a docu on the movie once that pointed to Taoism as one of the inspirations for The Force
and i did see a docu on the movie once that pointed to Taoism as one of the inspirations for The Force
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StormSurfer
Guest
Well, do not think Chi is exactly what The Force is. I do not want someone trying to move a pencil closer to them cause they seen it on Star Wars and believe Chi is real, and think The Force=Chi.
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choy
Guest
of course! 
i’m not saying that the entire concept of The Force is what Taoism is. just the basic concepts and then expand from it
it would be cool though if i can dart lightning from my hands or learn to control a sword to deflect laser bullets with the power of my mind
i’m not saying that the entire concept of The Force is what Taoism is. just the basic concepts and then expand from it
it would be cool though if i can dart lightning from my hands or learn to control a sword to deflect laser bullets with the power of my mind
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Harpazo
Guest
Excellent book! It really helped me in my conversion to Orthodoxy.
In Christ,
Andrew
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StormSurfer
Guest
I would think that to be…interesting, but such power could not be controlled by humans. Humans are a race of people that have proved to be able, and willing, to commit atrocities against their race, and others. No such race should be allowed such power.of course!
i’m not saying that the entire concept of The Force is what Taoism is. just the basic concepts and then expand from it
it would be cool though if i can dart lightning from my hands or learn to control a sword to deflect laser bullets with the power of my mind
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choy
Guest
that is why in the movie as in real life, only the trained and disciplined are granted such power
do taoist monks wield any kind of power?
Catholic priests of course have the power of dispensing grace through the sacraments and other things like exorcism which lay Catholics do not have
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NoWings
Guest
If I remember correctly, in Chinese bibles the Gospel of John starts out as, “In the beginning was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God,” yes?Excellent book! It really helped me in my conversion to Orthodoxy.
In Christ,
Andrew
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