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Michael_Mayo
Guest
Yes, that is the more important issue. But not a bad place to be. It is one of humility. But that should not deter us.OP
I think you should consider why you feel “too bad” or even “ashamed” to pray, and so seek solace in the tarot cards.
M
mommy_k
Guest
To use a tool of satan -even if the tool is not used as intended, opens the door for him.
Why on earth would you pick tarot cards of all things to relax yourself?
Go to confession,and explain about difficulty in prayer. I am surprised you do not see the possible connection.
Why on earth would you pick tarot cards of all things to relax yourself?
Go to confession,and explain about difficulty in prayer. I am surprised you do not see the possible connection.
M
Meemai
Guest
No I have sources like:Sounds like you have a crisis of faith in which you reject the sanctity of the Old Testament and you seek solace in occult items such as the Tarot. Now you have come to Catholic Answers to seek advice from, ostensibly, faithful Catholic people. You have already been given some good advice and you are fighting back against it and attempting to justify your practices.
Perhaps you should discuss this with your confessor or spiritual director and see what kind of advice he has to offer.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Patrick_Hederman
Tarot: Talisman or Taboo? - Reading the World as Symbol’, published by Currach Press (1 May 2003); ISBN 1-85607-902-3, ISBN 978-1-85607-902-0
No one adress this:
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Meemai
Guest
Because I am very troubled at the moment and I do not know what to do and God won’t answer, and I cannot get a priest to talk to me on every of my whims, a deck of card is availible on all my whims.OP,
I think you should consider why you feel “too bad” or even “ashamed” to pray, and so seek solace in the tarot cards.
This is never a good place to be in. One day, after all, we will see God, and do not want to be ashamed!
For that reason alone, I’d say, get rid of the tarot cards and get thee to confession!
ICXC NIKA
Reading the bible when questioning your faith is the worst thing to do, that is when the devil starts saying ‘look at the **** your reading, don’t trust it, trust me instead.’ What do you not all understand about that?
M
Meemai
Guest
Again:Tarot cards are never to be used for any reason. They are not a teaching device. Or a good method for self-analysis or self-reflection.
Best,
Ed
No I have sources like:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Patrick_Hederman
Tarot: Talisman or Taboo? - Reading the World as Symbol’, published by Currach Press (1 May 2003); ISBN 1-85607-902-3, ISBN 978-1-85607-902-0
No one adress this:
M
Meemai
Guest
When I open the bible in a major crisis of faith, that is when the devil says the words of the bible are not true, inconsistent and I am better off steering clear from God. That is not what I want, I need something else. Something outside religion I can reflect on when I am in trouble, because if I go in religion and nothing happens I start making the crisis bigger of my faith, which results in me walking away from God.Using dice in that way yes would not be something recommended.
Unless your say flipping a coin to decide if your going to order pizza or a burger!
Random “counseling” is yes can be problematic in itself.
Spiritual direction…going to Confession talking with a Priest…reading spiritual works on the subject in question…reading the Catechism or Compendium of the Catechism…
If you like doing things “randomly” I would suggest taking a little New Testament and opening it up and read …not seeking some “random answer to a question” of course but simply looking for a verse to read at the moment for mediation. One can for example go to the a particular Letter -like that of Paul to the Colossians and look around til you find something to mediate on in particular at that moment.
If you open up to Judas hanging himself…well read something else.
I do this every night before bed …If what I read does not suit me at the moment I read something else …then I take that verse within my thoughts and prayer as I fall asleep…that is a very good way to pray (such as repeating the verse silently).
One can also carry the little New Testament with you and read a little bit when your waiting somewhere or get a moment to do so during the day.
A kind of brief lectio divina.
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pianistclare
Guest
When you need to draw near to God, you go to his house,When I open the bible in a major crisis of faith, that is when the devil says the words of the bible are not true, inconsistent and I am better off steering clear from God. That is not what I want, I need something else. Something outside religion I can reflect on when I am in trouble, because if I go in religion and nothing happens I start making the crisis bigger of my faith, which results in me walking away from God.
You don’t go out carousing with the enemy.
What is it about Church and Spiritual Advisors, and good retreat houses that does not appeal to you?
What are you afraid of?
Fear MORE, the wiles of the enemy.
Go to church, meet with the priest, tell him of your questions and dryness in prayer, your feelings of doubt, and work on it. Don’t escape through odd practices.
I read all the reviews of that book…it’s touted as good resource for New Age devotees.
Better to read some of the “ageless” writers.
There are many.
What you need is good spiritual direction, based on what you have posted here.
I hope that you will go to a parish near you and seek out some guidance in real life.
Peace.
M
Meemai
Guest
I tried the last thing, but it never cuts it. You get the general story, God loves you, you need to open up to him and everything will be alright. That does not help when your questioning God.When you need to draw near to God, you go to his house,
You don’t go out carousing with the enemy.
What is it about Church and Spiritual Advisors, and good retreat houses that does not appeal to you?
What are you afraid of?
Fear MORE, the wiles of the enemy.
Go to church, meet with the priest, tell him of your questions and dryness in prayer, your feelings of doubt, and work on it. Don’t escape through odd practices.
I read all the reviews of that book…it’s touted as good resource for New Age devotees.
Better to read some of the “ageless” writers.
There are many.
What you need is good spiritual direction, based on what you have posted here.
I hope that you will go to a parish near you and seek out some guidance in real life.
Peace.
Also the reviews might say that but still I assume a monk like that, will not go against his own religion, he is a respectable monk after all.
Anyway I guess I am on my own then, without tarot cards, and God does not really come to me and tell me what to do. He might be with me, but he is just watching, I am on my own. So I’ll do just that, fend for myself. As a priest sadly only gives general answers.
P
pianistclare
Guest
God doesn’t give up on us. Why are you so quick to give up on Him?I tried the last thing, but it never cuts it. You get the general story, God loves you, you need to open up to him and everything will be alright. That does not help when your questioning God.
Also the reviews might say that but still I assume a monk like that, will not go against his own religion, he is a respectable monk after all.
Anyway I guess I am on my own then, without tarot cards, and God does not really come to me and tell me what to do. He might be with me, but he is just watching, I am on my own. So I’ll do just that, fend for myself. As a priest sadly only gives general answers.
Are expecting a personal letter? Fireworks?
Read Mother Theresa of Calcutta’s bio. You might get some perspective on how God “speaks” to people.
And anyway, God tells us what to do via Scripture all the time. At every Mass really. Love one another. Do for others. Put yourself last. Be the hands and feet of Christ in the world. Look outward, and find the God you seek in the faces of those who you offer Christian love and support. If you want that close relationship, draw close to Him in His ministry.
Nothing makes one feel they have a unique purpose quicker than making yourself available to one who truly has nothing.
Go to Mass to be fed with the Eucharist, Adore Him in Adoration, and ask Him to show you where to put your energies.
The Holy Spirit will lead you. It ain’t magic. It’s not going to be a “ta-da” moment.
Look around the parish for a ministry that appeals to you and your sense of giving.
It’s in giving that we receive.
Be assured of our prayers.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
A card is a card. No big deal. It is the intention that matters. But why not instead, light a candle, burn some incense and prayerfully approach the readings or just Gospel of the day instead, for your personal reflection.
M
Meemai
Guest
It’s not really a choice of parish… There is a cluster of parishes where I live, where I live there is mass once every two weeks. Church is filled with old people, like 20 old people and that’s it. There’s maybe only 20-30 people going to church where I live. No youths like me, my whole environment is atheistic.God doesn’t give up on us. Why are you so quick to give up on Him?
Are expecting a personal letter? Fireworks?
Read Mother Theresa of Calcutta’s bio. You might get some perspective on how God “speaks” to people.
And anyway, God tells us what to do via Scripture all the time. At every Mass really. Love one another. Do for others. Put yourself last. Be the hands and feet of Christ in the world. Look outward, and find the God you seek in the faces of those who you offer Christian love and support. If you want that close relationship, draw close to Him in His ministry.
Nothing makes one feel they have a unique purpose quicker than making yourself available to one who truly has nothing.
Go to Mass to be fed with the Eucharist, Adore Him in Adoration, and ask Him to show you where to put your energies.
The Holy Spirit will lead you. It ain’t magic. It’s not going to be a “ta-da” moment.
Look around the parish for a ministry that appeals to you and your sense of giving.
It’s in giving that we receive.
Be assured of our prayers.
So there is not much I can do about it, And when people say you give up on God, but he does not on you. Well I give up on God because I do not have the blind faith of God is a decent chap that is helping me and that I am feeling bad and feeling no connection at all is all my fault. That is not sharing the burden.
M
Meemai
Guest
Thanks,A card is a card. No big deal. It is the intention that matters. But why not instead, light a candle, burn some incense and prayerfully approach the readings or just Gospel of the day instead, for your personal reflection.
I tried that but it does not work… I live in country that has been seculair for a long, long time. Religion has almost bled dry here. There is some places with a lot of protestants that are focussed in one area.
I know no religious people in my imediate life that are of my age. Church is empty, what am I to do? I can read the gospels but I cannot talk about it with anyone, do I have to figure it all out in my head talk to myself and God I tried asking God. I asked him many times to help me understand but nothing happens. I need something to fall back on.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Oh dear. We are to share HIS burden. He dealt with many non-believers and was put to death by them. Don’t identify with that for heaven’s sake.It’s not really a choice of parish… There is a cluster of parishes where I live, where I live there is mass once every two weeks. Church is filled with old people, like 20 old people and that’s it. There’s maybe only 20-30 people going to church where I live. No youths like me, my whole environment is atheistic.
So there is not much I can do about it, And when people say you give up on God, but he does not on you. Well I give up on God because I do not have the blind faith of God is a decent chap that is helping me and that I am feeling bad and feeling no connection at all is all my fault. That is not sharing the burden.
So what if the people in the pew next to you are elderly? What has that got to do with anything?
They might even have wisdom to impart.
Get a spiritual director. You need someone to pray for you and talk with you.
Our faith is not blind. We have plenty of evidence of His goodness and love.
We accept hard teachings on faith, yes. But that doesn’t mean that Catholics are simpletons that just accept whatever.
Again, good reading material, frequent Mass, listening, REALLY listening to the Gospels and the homilies, and putting yourself around knowledgeable people in matters of faith.
It’s better than feeling miserable. The ball is in your court.
Peace.
P
PolarGuy
Guest
Meemai, do you really, REALLY think Tarot cards (!?!) will give you some sort of deep insight into life; you; or whatever?
Bunk, bunk, bunk. They certainly haven’t helped you so far! They may however have driven you AWAY from God, particularly given your apparent desire for them over truly Godly trappings, i.e., the Bible, Church, and sacraments.
You are looking for reasons to turn to these cards and no one here will give you that - because there’s no good reason to (although many bad ones). People need the full meal only God can provide, yet they try to fill up on sugared water of substitutes. These cards are worse than sugar water; they are poison!
Bunk, bunk, bunk. They certainly haven’t helped you so far! They may however have driven you AWAY from God, particularly given your apparent desire for them over truly Godly trappings, i.e., the Bible, Church, and sacraments.
You are looking for reasons to turn to these cards and no one here will give you that - because there’s no good reason to (although many bad ones). People need the full meal only God can provide, yet they try to fill up on sugared water of substitutes. These cards are worse than sugar water; they are poison!
M
Meemai
Guest
You cannot get a connection with them, they believe cause they’re parents believed etc. I can try but I do not know, I just feel miserable enough… If God is all powerful why is he so cruel to me…Oh dear. We are to share HIS burden. He dealt with many non-believers and was put to death by them. Don’t identify with that for heaven’s sake.
So what if the people in the pew next to you are elderly? What has that got to do with anything?
They might even have wisdom to impart.
Get a spiritual director. You need someone to pray for you and talk with you.
Our faith is not blind. We have plenty of evidence of His goodness and love.
We accept hard teachings on faith, yes. But that doesn’t mean that Catholics are simpletons that just accept whatever.
Again, good reading material, frequent Mass, listening, REALLY listening to the Gospels and the homilies, and putting yourself around knowledgeable people in matters of faith.
It’s better than feeling miserable. The ball is in your court.
Peace.
I just feel I’d rather be poisoned than drink the healthy water and live long. I am tired of it all, I want to rest my head and forget it all.Meemai, do you really, REALLY think Tarot cards (!?!) will give you some sort of deep insight into life; you; or whatever?
Bunk, bunk, bunk. They certainly haven’t helped you so far! They may however have driven you AWAY from God, particularly given your apparent desire for them over truly Godly trappings, i.e., the Bible, Church, and sacraments.
You are looking for reasons to turn to these cards and no one here will give you that - because there’s no good reason to (although many bad ones). People need the full meal only God can provide, yet they try to fill up on sugared water of substitutes. These cards are worse than sugar water; they are poison!
L
Legend
Guest
meemai,
I began reading this thread, and as you kept justifying your use of tarot cards, I wondered… Why you posted in the first place? I don’t agree, but if you were happy with your tarot regimen, who could stop you? Your defense of your position seemed strong at first, but the idea of being uncomfortable with the Old Testament was a sign that you weren’t happy with your spiritual walk. Soon your disappointment with the Church and, indeed, your relationship with God in general, became apparent. You never were really happy about using tarot cards.
You seem very concerned with your relationship with God, so please, please, contact a nearby priest. Tell him your concerns. If he cannot counsel you himself, he will know of Christian counsellors, or even therapists, one of whom you are bound to get along with. He can help you as no message board can. This thread has helped to show you what your real problems are…time to take the next step.
I began reading this thread, and as you kept justifying your use of tarot cards, I wondered… Why you posted in the first place? I don’t agree, but if you were happy with your tarot regimen, who could stop you? Your defense of your position seemed strong at first, but the idea of being uncomfortable with the Old Testament was a sign that you weren’t happy with your spiritual walk. Soon your disappointment with the Church and, indeed, your relationship with God in general, became apparent. You never were really happy about using tarot cards.
You seem very concerned with your relationship with God, so please, please, contact a nearby priest. Tell him your concerns. If he cannot counsel you himself, he will know of Christian counsellors, or even therapists, one of whom you are bound to get along with. He can help you as no message board can. This thread has helped to show you what your real problems are…time to take the next step.
P
pianistclare
Guest
The problem is not the liturgy at your parish or the age of the people there. You can’t possible know why or how people believe what they do. You’re assuming a lot, and much of it incorrectly.You cannot get a connection with them, they believe cause they’re parents believed etc. I can try but I do not know, I just feel miserable enough… If God is all powerful why is he so cruel to me…
I just feel I’d rather be poisoned than drink the healthy water and live long. I am tired of it all, I want to rest my head and forget it all.
God is not cruel to anyone. This is a warped view of the Lord due to your depression.
Clearly you are depressed.
Again. See a priest. Speak frankly. Get assistance.
Peace.
J
Josie33
Guest
Meemai,
I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through a rough time right now and my heart goes out to you. Please know that use of tarot cards for whatever reason, is prohibited. Tarot cards are a form of divination and as the Catechism states, “[a]ll forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.” (para. 2116)
Even though you defend your position on using them for “reflection” you are actually using them for insight, to help in discerning a future course of action. You stated:
Also, tampering with tarot cards could very well be the reason why you feel that God is distant. These practices are a violation of the First Commandment, the sin of idolatry. I want to refer you to the testimony of Gloria Polo who had a near death experience, was judged, and was allowed to come back to give her testimony about her judgment. You are not bound to believe, but there is one portion of her testimony that came to mind in this regard. Gloria says, "[m]any Catholics, believers and practicing, go to Mass and to the magician at the same time. **Because the evil one makes to believe that there is nothing evil here, and that we go to Heaven all the same, because we certainly do not use magic to do evil to someone! The devil guides, uses and directs all of this with a very well prepared strategy. **You know therefore that, when we have recourse to magic, it does not matter for whatever, the beast imprints his seal. When we go to some enchanter, or diviner, or fortune-teller, or astrologer, or to one who invokes the spirits, in all of these places the devil places his seal, his stamp.
I found myself in one of these places when I went with a friend, who brought me to an enchanter to consult her, to predict my future: there I was marked by the beast. The evil one put on me his seal. The worst thing was that, beginning from that day, in which by way of that lady I received the stamp of evil, I began to have disturbances: nocturnal agitation, nightmares, anxieties, fears, and even a profound desire to suicide! I did not understand the why of these desires! I cried, I felt unhappy, and never again did I feel in peace.*** I prayed, but I felt the Lord far from me: never again did I sense that nearness with Him, that instead I had when I was little*.** Of course! I had opened the doors to the beast, and the evil one had entered with force into my life."
My advice to you would be to get rid of *any and all *occult items within your home. Tarot cards are not harmless, they are a source of evil. They are considered **cursed items **and as such, evil spirits can attach themselves to them. Whether you use them or not, so long as they are in your home, evil spirits have a legal right to be there. For a listing of occult/cursed items, please visit The Padre Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling (see the section entitled “step 2” for the list). For how to destroy these items, please see Procedure to Destroy Occultic or Cursed Objects
Second I would advise you to go to confession to liberate yourself from any and all bondage caused by tampering in the occult. If after confession you still feel this depression, please speak with a priest for guidance. It may also be necessary for you to renounce this practice.
Also if you feel unable to turn directly to Jesus, ask the Blessed Mother for her help, the whole “to Jesus through Mary” sorta thing. Pray the rosary daily, reflecting on the life of Christ is the best “reflection” one can make. You can also do penance, acts of charity and fast. Pick up spiritual reading, The Diary of St. Faustina is my personal fav. These are all ways we can grow closer to Christ. And since the Netherlands is in a crisis (btw I used to live there), you can incorporate the mass in your daily life by following the readings for each day. Subscribe to the Magnificat or follow online for free.
Most importantly, trust in God and as the Catechism states,“a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it.” (para. 2115) Lastly, please know that Jesus loves you. Don’t give up on Him. We don’t always get the answers we need right away but we should strive to trust, remain faithful and live in a spirit of hope.
I hope this helps. God Bless,
Josie
I’m sorry to hear that you’re going through a rough time right now and my heart goes out to you. Please know that use of tarot cards for whatever reason, is prohibited. Tarot cards are a form of divination and as the Catechism states, “[a]ll forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.” (para. 2116)
Even though you defend your position on using them for “reflection” you are actually using them for insight, to help in discerning a future course of action. You stated:
You also stated:Using tarot in a therapeutic way is it allowed? What do I mean? Now let’s say I am stuck and do not know what to do and feel bad.
So from “reflecting” on the cards are in fact obtaining answers and your course of action is based on those answers. When you discover that you have been “neglecting this and such and so on” you make changes right? I’m sorry to tell you this but you are engaging in divination. Remember Satan is deceitful, he will have us think we are not sinning when we are.I start reflecting on that card and thinking if I have been doing such a thing lately in my life. Many a times I find out 'aha, I have actually been doing that, neglecting this and such and so on.’
Also, tampering with tarot cards could very well be the reason why you feel that God is distant. These practices are a violation of the First Commandment, the sin of idolatry. I want to refer you to the testimony of Gloria Polo who had a near death experience, was judged, and was allowed to come back to give her testimony about her judgment. You are not bound to believe, but there is one portion of her testimony that came to mind in this regard. Gloria says, "[m]any Catholics, believers and practicing, go to Mass and to the magician at the same time. **Because the evil one makes to believe that there is nothing evil here, and that we go to Heaven all the same, because we certainly do not use magic to do evil to someone! The devil guides, uses and directs all of this with a very well prepared strategy. **You know therefore that, when we have recourse to magic, it does not matter for whatever, the beast imprints his seal. When we go to some enchanter, or diviner, or fortune-teller, or astrologer, or to one who invokes the spirits, in all of these places the devil places his seal, his stamp.
I found myself in one of these places when I went with a friend, who brought me to an enchanter to consult her, to predict my future: there I was marked by the beast. The evil one put on me his seal. The worst thing was that, beginning from that day, in which by way of that lady I received the stamp of evil, I began to have disturbances: nocturnal agitation, nightmares, anxieties, fears, and even a profound desire to suicide! I did not understand the why of these desires! I cried, I felt unhappy, and never again did I feel in peace.*** I prayed, but I felt the Lord far from me: never again did I sense that nearness with Him, that instead I had when I was little*.** Of course! I had opened the doors to the beast, and the evil one had entered with force into my life."
My advice to you would be to get rid of *any and all *occult items within your home. Tarot cards are not harmless, they are a source of evil. They are considered **cursed items **and as such, evil spirits can attach themselves to them. Whether you use them or not, so long as they are in your home, evil spirits have a legal right to be there. For a listing of occult/cursed items, please visit The Padre Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling (see the section entitled “step 2” for the list). For how to destroy these items, please see Procedure to Destroy Occultic or Cursed Objects
Second I would advise you to go to confession to liberate yourself from any and all bondage caused by tampering in the occult. If after confession you still feel this depression, please speak with a priest for guidance. It may also be necessary for you to renounce this practice.
Also if you feel unable to turn directly to Jesus, ask the Blessed Mother for her help, the whole “to Jesus through Mary” sorta thing. Pray the rosary daily, reflecting on the life of Christ is the best “reflection” one can make. You can also do penance, acts of charity and fast. Pick up spiritual reading, The Diary of St. Faustina is my personal fav. These are all ways we can grow closer to Christ. And since the Netherlands is in a crisis (btw I used to live there), you can incorporate the mass in your daily life by following the readings for each day. Subscribe to the Magnificat or follow online for free.
Most importantly, trust in God and as the Catechism states,“a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it.” (para. 2115) Lastly, please know that Jesus loves you. Don’t give up on Him. We don’t always get the answers we need right away but we should strive to trust, remain faithful and live in a spirit of hope.
I hope this helps. God Bless,
Josie
K
Kevin12
Guest
From Wikipedia on Tarot Card Games:My advice to you would be to get rid of *any and all *occult items within your home. Tarot cards are not harmless, they are a source of evil. They are considered **cursed items **and as such, evil spirits can attach themselves to them. Whether you use them or not, so long as they are in your home, evil spirits have a legal right to be there. For a listing of occult/cursed items, please visit The Padre Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling (see the section entitled “step 2” for the list). For how to destroy these items, please see Procedure to Destroy Occultic or Cursed Objects
Josie
Tarot cards are no more inherently occult that playing cards, which can also be used for cartomancy if you want.Contrary to popular belief, Tarot decks did not precede decks having four suits of the same length,[4] and they were invented not for occult but for purely gaming purposes.[5] Only later were they used for cartomancy and divination, and also as a field for artists to display specific iconographies, often connected to some ideological system. Concrete forms appear at least since the article of Court de Gebelin in the year 1781.
I’m a poet, or rather an MFA student with some published poems, and I’ve written some poems, not on the Tarot cards themselves, but just using the ideas from the card names and pictures as character types: the fool, the general, the motherly type. I attach absolutely no supernatural significance to this whatsoever, as I told my confessor. All he told me was, if I published the poems, to include a disclaimer that I’m only using them as character types.
To the OP, if you’re only doing it as a point of psychological investigation, it might not be a problem, but it seems you’re putting a lot more into this than just investigation.
Anyway, you might check out this: patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2013/07/meditations-on-the-tarot/. St. John Paul II may have had a book on the topic, so maybe some people can keep an open mind. Remember, he’s a saint how, now matter now much some of you may want to only remember him as kissing a Koran or whatever it was.
Also, I’d stay away from this forum. I seriously wonder if being in this place, particularly given the abundance of extreme traditionalists here hasn’t permanently warped my view of the church.
[EDITED: Medical advice not allowed.] could be.
Try reading Kierkegaard since you can do it in the original.
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