Tea party wins in northeastern primaries could bode well for Democrats

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Rita_De_C said:
Anyway, A smart one can devise schemes, but a dumb one can just use brute force and terror. Neither is good, but I’d rather a smart one.
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And a smart one can use brute force and terror as well. Stalin was educated, used brute force and terror, and did a whole lot more damage than Amin did.

The key factor with Amin was his strength. He was a strong leader. Uneducated, but strong. Now, imagine what he would have done were he better educated. Imagine a corrupt, educated, strong leader. Do you think this type of leader would be less destructive?

Take these three attributes: education, honor, and strength. What are the 8 possible outcomes:

Uneducated, corrupt, and weak
Uneducated, corrupt, and strong
Uneducated, honorable, and weak
Uneducated, honorable, and strong
Educated, corrupt, and weak
** Educated, corrupt, and strong**
Educated, honorable, and weak
Educated, honorable, and strong

Which of these eight do you think could do the most harm? I’ve bolded my answer. Your example, Amin, is “uneducated, corrupt, and strong”. I don’t see how this type of person could do more damage than an educated person, especially since he wouldn’t have the intellectual training to pull off more harmful operations.
 
estesbob said:
The last thing in the world we need is more lawyers in political office. In fact the last thing in the world we need is more lawyers ,period!
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Ever notice that most people hate lawyers (and estesbob this is not a reflection on you; just a statement in general)…until they need one. Suddenly they are not so bad after all!
 
Suudy said:
And a smart one can use brute force and terror as well. Stalin was educated, used brute force and terror, and did a whole lot more damage than Amin did.

The key factor with Amin was his strength. He was a strong leader. Uneducated, but strong. Now, imagine what he would have done were he better educated. Imagine a corrupt, educated, strong leader. Do you think this type of leader would be less destructive?

Take these three attributes: education, honor, and strength. What are the 8 possible outcomes:

Uneducated, corrupt, and weak
Uneducated, corrupt, and strong
Uneducated, honorable, and weak
Uneducated, honorable, and strong
Educated, corrupt, and weak
** Educated, corrupt, and strong**
Educated, honorable, and weak
Educated, honorable, and strong

Which of these eight do you think could do the most harm? I’ve bolded my answer. Your example, Amin, is “uneducated, corrupt, and strong”. I don’t see how this type of person could do more damage than an educated person, especially since he wouldn’t have the intellectual training to pull off more harmful operations.
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At least a Stalin brought USSR into the industrial age. Amin led Uganda back into the stone age.
 
gamewell45 said:
Ever notice that most people hate lawyers (and estesbob this is not a reflection on you; just a statement in general)…until they need one. Suddenly they are not so bad after all!
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No, I’ve been through about 3 or 4 lawyers and I still cant stand them, couldn’t stand them when I needed them, they tend to roll over in front of judges or get lazy on the case. I finally got a good one though, former JAG officer whose been to Iraq defending our soldiers. He’s a hard working guy. I’ve never dealt with a profession where I’ve talked to so many and it just seemed like I was on a dead end road. The 3 or 4 that I hired to do something, I’ve actually spoken to more than a dozen or so, many I did not hire because of their attitude. The ones who rolled over or were lazy talked a good game till it came to crunch time.
 
TMC said:
All this anti-education talk is really pretty astounding. I agree that there are smart educated people and dumb educated people. There are also smart uneducated people. Also, not all education has to be had at Ivy League schools - or any school. But the growing trend (reflected on this thread and in the political arena generally) to deliberately choose uneducated people to do important jobs is simply irresponsible and dangerous. There is not a shortage of smart, educated, qualified people. They come in every possible political and philosophical flavor. Get one to run. After all, would you allow a “common-sense” surgeon that is unencumbered by all that “book learnin’” to operate on you? If not, why do the same with the people running the country?
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This “anti-education” talk is because the arrogance of the educated. The farmers voice should not be silenced by the Harvard professors voice.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
This “anti-education” talk is because the arrogance of the educated. The farmers voice should not be silenced by the Harvard professors voice.
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There is an old saying where I live:

“When you cuss a farmer, don’t talk with your mouth full”
 
bbarrick8383 said:
This “anti-education” talk is because the arrogance of the educated.
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Actually it is defensiveness on the part of those with a set of conservative political heroes about whom it is questionable if they have the education for the jobs they seek.
 
Rita_De_C said:
Awesome Point. Something that has been scaring me lately is all the people who say they want someone “just like us” to run for office. They want there leaders to be someone who makes mistakes, and seems stupid or uneducated. I remember when I was teaching high school. I was always amazed at how many kids felt that the solution to all the worlds problems could be solved by “dropping on bomb on them”. Usually, these views were just mimicking those of their parents. One thing I have seen over and over again in politics is that well intended people can become very corrupted by power. While a smart person corrupted by power is bad enough, a dumb one can be even worse.
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Everyone makes mistakes, and by “just like us” I’m pretty sure they do not mean stupid and completely uneducated. They mean someone who admits to their mistakes instead of hiring people to try and cover them up or lie about them. People, who in Rangals position, would flat out admit they screwed up and step down.

I’m not sure how much wisdom can be gained through teenagers, about their parents. My father didn’t speak about politics, nor my mother as far as that goes, and I’m pretty sure I probably said they should just bomb them at one point in time. Would I say it now? No. There is a maturity difference there.

Suudy made some very wise distinctions between a corrupt fool and a corrupt intellectual. Bernard Madoff is a perfect modern day example as opposed to others from a different time and country.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Actually it is defensiveness on the part of those with a set of conservative political heroes about whom it is questionable if they have the education for the jobs they seek.
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And…that would be why we are defending ourselves…arrogance, to question us on whether we can govern as well or better just because we choose someone who does not have an ivy league education does not mean we are not able to do it.

Should we now consider ourselves as ignorant farmers ruled by elite scholars?
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Actually it is defensiveness on the part of those with a set of conservative political heroes about whom it is questionable if they have the education for the jobs they seek.
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Actually it is the defensiveness defensiveness on the part of those with a set of Liberal political heroes about whom it is questionable if they have the experience for the jobs they seek
 
bbarrick8383 said:
This “anti-education” talk is because the arrogance of the educated. The farmers voice should not be silenced by the Harvard professors voice.
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I agree that the farmer’s voice should also be heard. But the recent tone has been more the arrogance of the uneducated, IMO. Also, notice that some of those bashing the so-called educated elites are not exactly poor farmers - Newt Gingrich for example. Ironic to hear a college professor and multi-millionaire bashing the educated elites.
 
TMC said:
I agree that the farmer’s voice should also be heard. But the recent tone has been more the arrogance of the uneducated, IMO. Also, notice that some of those bashing the so-called educated elites are not exactly poor farmers - Newt Gingrich for example. Ironic to hear a college professor and multi-millionaire bashing the educated elites.
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I don’t follow the Noot all that closely to know what he’s been saying.

My irritation is stoked by this forum alone, for the most part.
 
bbarrick8383 said:
And…that would be why we are defending ourselves…arrogance, to question us on whether we can govern as well or better just because we choose someone who does not have an ivy league education does not mean we are not able to do it.

Should we now consider ourselves as ignorant farmers ruled by elite scholars?
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Why do you keep bringing up ignorant farmers? Who said farmers are ignorant? No one. Who said one needed an ivy league education? I think people are wondering why a woman who discusses mice with human brains is a senate contender.
 
A_Fortiori_33 said:
Why do you keep bringing up ignorant farmers? Who said farmers are ignorant? No one. Who said one needed an ivy league education? I think people are wondering why a woman who discusses mice with human brains is a senate contender.
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Insinuations my friend, nothing more. Let’s just say the intellectual arrogance is alive and well in some posts.

Before you go any further on her about mice and all that…maybe you should check the facts.

washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A63731-2004Nov19

Anymore questions?
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Only those who don’t know what an honor it is to be on law review at Harvard. **When Obama was there, half the law review were chosen on the basis of their grades, and half were elected. Many, if not most, law schools select them on the basis of grades alone. The president of Harvar law review was, at the time, strictly elected. Now, we know Obama is a good politician. So I guess we can’t know whether he achieved anything significant academically until he produces his grades, will we? **

You do not state the fact that there were at least 5 U of C alums in the state legislature at that time. The president’s rep in the state house had a husband who was a professor at the law school. But folks did not make that connection. She was the only person who ever held that job. She got it when he got elected to the state legislature. She got the raise from $120,000/year to $317,000 as a third year employee at about the same time Obama backed a big grant for the hospital complex for which she worked. I don’t know what the other four U of C alums got, or whether they even supported the grant. Maybe you can detail that for us.

There was no ‘house deal’ with Rezko. You are repeating urban legends and are wildly irrelevant. You give limited information and expect folks to make wild leaps to some supposedly sordid conclusions.
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Come on, counselor. You know better than that. “Urban legend” is it? ABC didn’t seem to think so, and it’s hardly a conservative organization. abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4111483&page=1

If any readers want to read about it, there are plenty of sources. Ignore both Beau and me. Just google “obama” & “Rezko”. There are lots of them.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Come on, counselor. You know better than that. “Urban legend” is it?
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Yes. You make a vague allegation of ‘house deal’ and then that could mean anything. No deal on the price of the house; no Rezko part in the purchase of the house. Those are facts.

As to Harvard law, do you have any idea what it takes to be even admitted to that law school? Plus, to my knowledge law review was half grades and half writing competition, not any election.

All this is an irrelevant aside and I’m through with it. Don’t call me ‘counselor’, either. Its something out of “Cape Fear”.

Discuss the issues.
 
Beau_Ouiville said:
Actually it is defensiveness on the part of those with a set of conservative political heroes about whom it is questionable if they have the education for the jobs they seek.
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Here is what one conservative hero said about this:

“I’d rather be governed by the first 2000 names in the Boston phone book than by the dons of Harvard.” ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

It was Ivy Leaguers " the best and the brightest" who blundered us into Vietnam - Mcgeorge Bundy (Yale) and Robert Mcnamara( Harvard).

'nuff said.
 
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