Teacher with incompatible lifestyle

[JRKH]

In response to the OP’s concerns…I think that Our Lord has given adequate instruction on how to handle the situation…
Matthew 18: 15-18
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church (Singular); and if he refuses to listen even to the church let him be as a tax collector. 18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

So - go through this - consider how each step is applicable and proceed in charity.
The most important issue here is the children for it is written
Mt 18:6
…whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. .

Peace
James

 

[Faithdancer]

He needs to be let go. And that would go for ALL teachers living lives contrary to the Church’s teachings.

Teachers have to set a moral example to their students. I would not want this guy teaching my son. And I would make that loud and clear if I knew about it.

How you live your life reflects your faith (or your lack of it.).

I agree 100%. This is a Catholic school, and the teacher talks openly about his gay nightlife?!!! Homosexuality is a gravely disordered sin, and no active homosexual has any business teaching in a Catholic school. Was he open about his lifestyle at the interview? If so, and he was hired anyway, he isn’t the only one who should be sacked. Incredible!

 

[StrawberryJam]

Is this an elementary school? High school? University?
I have my reasons for asking.
PS

Do you have a confessor to discuss this with? Do you attend confession regularly with a priest who can guide you?

 

[Faithdancer]

I apologize if I sound harsh, but I am so sick and tired of “alternative lifestyles” being shoved down my family’s throat even if it’s on, say, a HGTV channel program. Amen. Time for Catholics to start getting a little militant, too.

We have got to start standing up for what we believe in, even if that means people leaving the Church. Oh, I’ll hold the door for them! The Good Lord did not beg those disciples that could not accept the Holy Eucharist (His Body and Blood) to come back and “let’s talk”. You either accept it or you don’t.

Thanks for tellin’ it like it is, doanli. There is no middle ground on active homosexuals in the Church. And Catholic school teachers being open about their gay lifestyle and yakking it up in the lunchroom as if it’s normal is a scandal. This guy clearly doesn’t respect the Church, the school or his co-workers.

 

[Faithdancer]

Come to think of it all the men who played drag queens in “Priscilla Queen of the Desert” are heterosexuals, and so were the men in “Wong Fu, thanks For Everything” were too. And there are plenty of gays who depise drag.

Irrelevant.

 

[Faithdancer]

If you are really concerned about possible unpleasant consequences involved in raising the issue, perhaps you could consider sending an anonymous letter to the principal or head master, along with some basic details that corroborate your concerns…details that those in charge could investigate and confirm themselves.

No matter how you decide to inform those in authority, you will be doing a great service to the parents who are entrusting their children to the school, and to the students themselves.

I remember a classmate who often spoke of a teacher with many problematic characteristics who had told him that it was okay to make decisions regarding sexual behaviors “as long as it was okay with his (the student’s) conscience.” Whatever that means. The teacher apparently had made no effort to present Catholic teaching about informing one’s conscience. The teacher’s statement did great harm to my classmate, and many close to my classmate.

I can’t imagine this teacher you’re describing soundly presently Catholic doctrine when his lifestyle is completely at odds with the faith.

And because he’s already spoken of his lifestyle at the workplace, the possibility of scandal is now an issue. According to the Catechism:

catholicexchange.com/the-definition-of-scandal/

It’s amazing what supervisors are not aware of. I have a friend whose colleague has been engaged in corrupt behavior at work, yet her deeds go undetected because her colleagues do not want to be implicated in reporting her.

In any case, the situation you describe is much more serious because the formation of young people is at stake.

Absolutely. Great post, and the fact that the job involves formation of young people makes it a compellingly serious situation.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Thanks for tellin’ it like it is, doanli. There is no middle ground on active homosexuals in the Church. And Catholic school teachers being open about their gay lifestyle and yakking it up in the lunchroom as if it’s normal is a scandal. This guy clearly doesn’t respect the Church, the school or his co-workers.

Well, you would think so. However, at University level many take the name of Catholic without acutally living up to or held accountable to be so.
Money talks.

 

[Faithdancer]

It seems clear that it’s not a university, since the OP mentions “boys” and “RE.”

 

[StrawberryJam]

It seems clear that it’s not a university, since the OP mentions “boys” and “RE.”

Look at the fourth paragraph closely. Mentions children.

I am wondering why any of us are taking this seriously when this is the OP’s very first post on CAF.

 

[Faithdancer]

Perhaps its the first time the OP has encountered CAF? Perhaps it’s the first time the OP has felt compelled to post and ask for help? There could be any number of reasons, and everyone has a first post. I don’t read anything into that at all.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Perhaps, but the issue remains that he does not seem to be particularly discerning or concerned about the company he keeps, .

Okay, everyone needs to just stop with the judgements. You cannot possibly know this from the brief information in the OP’s post.

You and I have no idea what this man’s personal life is like. The OP proposes he should report to someone things a man said with some red flag words for him. That’s all we know.

 

[Faithdancer]

It’s pretty clear that the OP is trying very hard to be tolerant and non-judgemental; too hard in actuality. Sympathy for homosexuality rightfully extends only so far as one recognizes that homosexuality is gravely disordered, and chastity is the only acceptable choice for those with a homosexual inclination. Here the welfare of the young male students and the reputation of the school are the real concerns, not the “rights” of the gay bar-cruising teacher, who has forfeited his “right” to continued employment in a Catholic school through his openly immoral lifestyle.

 

[daisybee]

You’re right; we have limited details about the person’s life. However, out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks…it’s inappropriate to bring up these topics at work, especially at a Catholic school. That he has discussed gay bars and drag queens at school is a fact. If you would like to propose that none of the people being discussed at the gay bars and none of the drag queens are his friends, fine. (Although earlier you asserted that it is not uncommon for homosexual people to go to gay bars and have friends who are drag queens…however, now we need to make sure to include this teacher as not having that tendency despite your assertion. ???)

I would also be concerned if a different male teacher started talking about “gentlemen’s” clubs and topless dancers at the school. Some things are totally inappropriate to discuss in the school environment.

You haven’t acknowledged the teacher’s pro-abortion stance. That could be equally or more disqualifying than his inappropriate comments and possibly questionable lifestyle.

I like Elizium’s suggestion to gather documentation over time if needed.

H

 

[Faithdancer]

You’re right; we have limited details about the person’s life. However, out of the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks…it’s inappropriate to bring up these topics at work, especially at a Catholic school. That he has discussed gay bars and drag queens at school is a fact. If you would like to propose that none of the people being discussed at the gay bars and none of the drag queens are his friends, fine. (Although earlier you assertef that it is not uncommon for homosexual people to go to gay bars and have friends who are drag queens…however, now we need to make sure to include this teacher as not having that tendency despite your assertion. ???)

I would also be concerned if a different male teacher started talking about “gentlemen’s” clubs and topless dancers at the school. Some things are totally inappropriate to discuss in the school environment.

You haven’t acknowledged the teacher’s pro-abortion stance. That could be equally or more disqualifying than his inappropriate comments and possibly questionable lifestyle.

I like Elizium’s suggestion to gather documentation over time if needed.

H

If he is cruising the gay bars and drag clubs, and openly talking about it in the faculty lounge, I don’t think any more documentation is needed. Get him away from the “boys,” pronto!
People didn’t want to believe all the allegations about Mark Fushek either. Even after his excommunication and defrocking, he still has his supporters. Hopefully what he doesn’t have anymore, is access to adolescent boys.

 

[JRKH]

**Okay, everyone needs to just stop with the judgements. **You cannot possibly know this from the brief information in the OP’s post.

You and I have no idea what this man’s personal life is like. The OP proposes he should report to someone things a man said with some red flag words for him. That’s all we know.

It’s pretty clear that the OP is trying very hard to be tolerant and non-judgemental; too hard in actuality. Sympathy for homosexuality rightfully extends only so far as one recognizes that homosexuality is gravely disordered, and chastity is the only acceptable choice for those with a homosexual inclination. Here the welfare of the young male students and the reputation of the school are the real concerns, not the “rights” of the … teacher, who has forfeited his “right” to continued employment in a Catholic school through his openly immoral lifestyle.

BOLDING MINE…



Two very nice posts.
We need to stay on track here folks…more especially because, as someone else mentioned, this is the OP’s first posting.

He is asking about whether he should report to the headmaster.

I believe that the very clear answer to this is YES. I say this not because the teacher has SSA, but because the teacher is obviously living in unrepentant sin while being employed to teach the faith at a Catholic School.
It must be up to the school to sort through the various issues involved in the country/jurisdiction where it is located.

Peace
James

 

[ServoFides]

He is also homosexual and talks about gay bars and drag queens in the staffroom over morning coffee. He does not do this in a loud way, merely a casual way to colleagues he is close to whom I am also close.

Same sex attraction isn’t a sin in and of itself, but rejecting church teaching and actively living a homosexual lifestyle is a grave sin. If he is unapologetically living a sinful lifestyle, then he shouldn’t be teaching in a Catholic school (that goes for other sinful lifestyles as well). If he is struggling with same sex attraction, but recognizes the sinfulness of homosexual acts and tries to resist, than that is a different issue. The fact that he discusses this in the staffroom, quietly or not, probably indicates the former. In either case, you should bring it to the attention of the principal who will hopefully investigate the situation and take whatever action is necessary.

 

[FidesetRatioFan]

Many thanks for the replies! I have been like a ninja on these boards before and have seen people get some really good advice but I have never bothered joining or posting myself.

I have been praying for guidance but have not come to any answers. I have viewed some of his teaching resources and he has made reference to the cathecism in lessons. He has also asked to borrow a copy of one of my scott hahn books which I duly offered.

The flip side is that he referred to one of the PE teachers (male) as the ‘hot one’ today.

The thing is that in the UK Catholic schools are desired for their academic reputations and my school would be relatively prestigious. It is common place for parents to baptise and raise their children RC in order to secure a better school. It is also quite common for teachers to claim to be Catholic to get a job as it is never checked. For a RE post in a Catholic school a persons commitment to their faith is a question in the interview. I have come across people who describe themselves as a practising catholic while co-habitating and also had a conversation with a good friends cousin who is actively gay and describes himself as Catholic.

To be honest I just feel the need to vent my frustration and I apologise again for having this as my first post/topic. I really just do not know what to do. My gut reaction is to leave it for those in a position to figure out themselves.

Apologies.

 

[JRKH]

Many thanks for the replies! I have been like a ninja on these boards before and have seen people get some really good advice but I have never bothered joining or posting myself.

I have been praying for guidance but have not come to any answers. I have viewed some of his teaching resources and he has made reference to the cathecism in lessons. He has also asked to borrow a copy of one of my scott hahn books which I duly offered.

The flip side is that he referred to one of the PE teachers (male) as the ‘hot one’ today.

The thing is that in the UK Catholic schools are desired for their academic reputations and my school would be relatively prestigious. It is common place for parents to baptise and raise their children RC in order to secure a better school. It is also quite common for teachers to claim to be Catholic to get a job as it is never checked. For a RE post in a Catholic school a persons commitment to their faith is a question in the interview. I have come across people who describe themselves as a practicing catholic while co-habiting and also had a conversation with a good friends cousin who is actively gay and describes himself as Catholic.

To be honest I just feel the need to vent my frustration and I apologize again for having this as my first post/topic. I really just do not know what to do. **My gut reaction is to leave it for those in a position to figure out themselves. **

Apologies.

No need to apologize for the topic…

RE: the Bolded…
I understand this being your “gut” reaction…but is it a “Catholic” reaction?

Peace
James

 

[FidesetRatioFan]

No need to apologize for the topic…

RE: the Bolded…
I understand this being your “gut” reaction…but is it a “Catholic” reaction?

Peace
James

This is a good point. Currently I would describe where I am as potentially bearing false witness if it does turn out to be untrue, however unlikely that is.

It is a very good point though

 

[thewanderer]

This is a good point. Currently I would describe where I am as potentially bearing false witness if it does turn out to be untrue, however unlikely that is.

It is a very good point though

I would just like to point out that a Catholic response is hardly going to involve bearing false witness. If you have doubts as to whether or not your co-worker is actually failing to fulfill his role as a Catholic teacher then I would certainly think twice before saying something about it.