Teaching evolution at a catholic school

[Freddy]

…that evolutionists so need, to avoid God.

Evolution doesn’t deny God. It simply explains how He created what we now have.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Evolution claims to be able to explain the origin of human beings.

The defining aspect of a human being is the immortal, rational soul. This separates humans from animals. You cannot have a human person, without a soul.
Evolution claims it knows how human beings evolved. So, supposedly, the human soul evolved from matter. But that would be false, because we know by infallible Catholic doctrine that God creates every human soul - so evolution is false.
A human being cannot emerge from blind, mindless process like evolution since the soul cannot be created from a mindless entity, It must come from God.
Evolution, claiming to explain the origin of human beings, is therefore false.
It is an evil theory that spreads godlessness in the world. Good Catholics should work to stop it and overcome it

 

[Freddy]

Evolution claims to be able to explain the origin of human beings.

The defining aspect of a human being is the immortal, rational soul. This separates humans from animals. You cannot have a human person, without a soul.
Evolution claims it knows how human beings evolved. So, supposedly, the human soul evolved from matter. But that would be false, because we know by infallible Catholic doctrine that God creates every human soul - so evolution is false.
A human being cannot emerge from blind, mindless process like evolution since the soul cannot be created from a mindless entity, It must come from God.

OK. It came from God. A couple were given a soul by God and became fully human. As were their offspring from that point onwards.

Where’s the problem?

And did you have an answer as to how old you think the planet is?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

A couple were given a soul by God and became fully human. As were their offspring from that point onwards.

Where’s the problem?

Can you reference this in the scientific literature that talks about the origin of human life? Everything i have seen says human beings evolved from non-human ancestors through mutations and selection. There is nothing about a soul - which is the rational intelligence in a human being.
So, how can you explain the origin of humans, without God’s direct creation?
That’s why evolution is false.
God is necessary in the creation of human life - directly creating the aspect, mind, will, moral awareness, logical processing, consciousness, conscience - all of that, evolution denies.
Evolutionists now claim that human consciousness (aspect of the immortal soul) evolved from mutations. It’s a denial of God’s direct action and totally absurd even in scientific terms.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

A couple were given a soul by God and became fully human. As were their offspring from that point onwards.

Where’s the problem?

Can you reference this in the scientific literature that talks about the origin of human life? Everything i have seen says human beings evolved from non-human ancestors through mutations and selection. There is nothing about a soul - which is the rational intelligence in a human being.
So, how can you explain the origin of humans, without God’s direct creation?

Why does it need to be direct creation? Are you saying that God couldn’t have done it by guiding the evolutionary process? Are you restricting God’s abilities?

And you won’t find any references to a soul in the scientific literature. It’s a theological concept. But are you saying that God could not have given a couple a soul to create the first true humans?

And can you give me an answer as to how old you think the planet is?

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Why does it need to be direct creation?

De fide Catholic doctrine.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Why does it need to be direct creation?

De fide Catholic doctrine.

It’s not part of the Catholic faith. It doesn’t teach creationism. In fact, the church accepts the evolutionary process.

You won’t be able to accept it if you hold fundamentalist views. Which is why I have been asking you how old you think the planet is. It might save us some time discussing matters which would be a waste of time for both of us.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

As I said, de fide dogma. “De Fide” means “of the Faith” - it is required of all Catholics. If you deny it you are a heretic.

Humani Generis: the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God

Catechism - 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God

 

[Rau]

Both of their religion class teachers promote and believe the evolution story instead of God’s 6 day creation.

The Catholic Church does not teach the specifics of creation. It does not hold that the genesis story is a form of science. I’m wondering why you do?

 

[Dan_Defender]

Encourage critical thinking in your kids. IMO, the idea that purely random processes and survival of the fittest drives the diversity of the species is flawed. Otherwise electricity not wheels should be purely in the human domain.

 

[Rau]

Intelligent Design is a much better scientific explanation for what we observe. These teachers and schools should get current.

This does not fit well in a science class because it infers a designer to “fill the gaps” & who is not subject to any further scientific investigation.

 

[Rau]

I suspect that challenging the science by quoting religion is what causes the problem! I recall at university taking an elective subject in “Philosophy of Religion”. There were a couple of students constantly running into difficulties by addressing issues from a “faith” perspective.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Consciousness, self-awareness, power of abstract thought, logical processing by reason, free will, moral awareness in conscience - these are aspects of the soul. It does not emerge from evolution.

 

[Rau]

Speciation is lineage splitting with a subsequent loss of reproductive ability with the former. This lineage splitting leads to eventual extinction as the information loss is not regained.

If a population becomes physically separated into 2 populations (places) experiencing different environmental conditions, and so each population evolves independently, and differently, what is the information loss that concerns you and Which you say must lead to extinction?

 

[Freddy]

As I said, de fide dogma. “De Fide” means “of the Faith” - it is required of all Catholics. If you deny it you are a heretic.

Humani Generis: the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God

Catechism - 366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God

That says nothing about what we were talking about. Which was creationism. The church doesn’t teach it. That it teaches that God creates every spiritual soul doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said either.

Are you saying that God couldn’t have given two people souls thus creating the first two true humans?

And still waiting on that age of the planet answer…

 

[Freddy]

Consciousness, self-awareness, power of abstract thought, logical processing by reason, free will, moral awareness in conscience - these are aspects of the soul. It does not emerge from evolution.

So they are granted by God. Yet again, are you saying that God couldn’t have given these things to the first two humans?

 

[Freddy]

Encourage critical thinking in your kids. IMO, the idea that purely random processes…

As I said, those who denigrate the process seem not to know the basics. Critical thinking would require one to have accurate knowledge in the first instance. You can’t compare one process with another if you don’t understand one of them.

 

[Rau]

And that is the issue. We agree He could have created just as Genesis states.

Scientism has done its best to deny this possibility.

Science has observed a different form of creation in action. I accept some see that as a series of colossal mistakes and others may see it as a conspiracy or “fake news”.

 

[Bill_B_NY]

Are you saying that God couldn’t have given two people souls thus creating the first two true humans?

Requested the scientific literature to support your evolutionary story here.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Are you saying that God couldn’t have given two people souls thus creating the first two true humans?

Requested the scientific literature to support your evolutionary story here.

I told you. Science doesn’t consider the soul. It’s a religious concept. As is God granting it to the first two humans. Again, are you saying that God could not have done that?

And the age of the planet? This discussion is going nowhere and getting there quickly. I need to know if you hold fundamentalist beliefs. It will dictate the rest of the discussion.