Teaching Mass

[superamazingman]

Indeed he did. He brings that up regularly in his talks. Regarding the teaching Mass, he discussed a directive that such a Mass be held annually. Unfortunately, I don’t know the title or source of that directive. (that may have been discussed at the previous year’s teaching Mass if it is not in the YouTube clips - the priest has since retired) In celebrating the teaching Mass, he made clear that he was doing so in order to be obedient to that directive. He has since retired.

You’re welcome.

Even if he was being obedient by having the teaching Mass, he was still changing the texts of the Mass in the greeting and the collect, and wore his stole incorrectly, which are all wrong…
The teaching part wasn’t the only problem.

 

[Zosimus41]

Some of the attitudes on this thread are depressing.

No wonder we have such an ignorant laity.

I wonder how many of the people who will, inevitably, reply to my post with anger are actually doing anything to explain the faith (which is, I hope you realise, quite a complicated and often very, very difficult to understand religion) to the vast numbers that don’t have a clue.

You know, there are actually some people in the world that were not brought up in devout Catholic families. And, horror of horrors, some of these people are not educated to high levels and able, or willing, to spend hundreds of hours reading books on theology.

Therin lies the problem “ignorance” I think the majority Catholics put in their one hour a week and thats the extent of it.Catechism, re or what ever they are calling it these days and RCIA teaches you little about our faith. The rest you learn what to do by watching the other folks. And if there is a teaching mass going on or any other addition or omission who would know?

Ignorance is bliss and if you tried to enlighten them most dont want to hear it.Even argue about it.

 

[cherbieg]

Wow. I did not think I would find such animosity springing from a simple post for help finding teaching material. Not only do I find people debating something they have not experienced for themselves but also something many bishops encourage their priests to do as a form of bringing us to a deeper and more meaningful experiences at mass. To clarify, the teaching mass I attended was an actual mass. However, not all of these “Teaching Masses” have a consecration of the host/wine. After the homily, prior to any Eucharistic prayers, etc. the priest explained the the consecration of the holy eucharist is to be so reverent that he would not interrupt or explain during that period. Instead he told us what he would be doing and why prior to moving forward with the mass. In the video I did find that was a teaching mass there was no consecration just an explanation of what takes place during this part of the mass. I also feel a need to clarify for some that not all parishes have access to classrooms for their teaching of the laity. Where I come from originally the Church is an old wooden structure that does not even have indoor bathrooms. There is no basement just a crawl space. The priest travels between several parishes and is the pastor of all of them roughly a 40 mile trip radius.There is no other place to teach the people. This is very common in my home state as there is a very low population per square mile. I believe we must do as we can with what we have. If the pastor of a parish is working hard to draw us closer to Jesus than they are truly following their call.

 

[SonCatcher]

Even if he was being obedient by having the teaching Mass, he was still changing the texts of the Mass in the greeting and the collect, and wore his stole incorrectly, which are all wrong…
The teaching part wasn’t the only problem.

He did explain that certain prayers (a minority) are allowed to be spontaneous per the rubrics, did he not? Perhaps he was more clear on that the previous year but it was explained.

I’ll grant the stole issue. Most of the time he wore his chasuble over his stole. I don’t know why they ended up reversed that day.

 

[SonCatcher]

Wow. I did not think I would find such animosity springing from a simple post for help finding teaching material. Not only do I find people debating something they have not experienced for themselves but also something many bishops encourage their priests to do as a form of bringing us to a deeper and more meaningful experiences at mass. To clarify, the teaching mass I attended was an actual mass. However, not all of these “Teaching Masses” have a consecration of the host/wine. After the homily, prior to any Eucharistic prayers, etc. the priest explained the the consecration of the holy eucharist is to be so reverent that he would not interrupt or explain during that period. Instead he told us what he would be doing and why prior to moving forward with the mass. In the video I did find that was a teaching mass there was no consecration just an explanation of what takes place during this part of the mass. I also feel a need to clarify for some that not all parishes have access to classrooms for their teaching of the laity. Where I come from originally the Church is an old wooden structure that does not even have indoor bathrooms. There is no basement just a crawl space. The priest travels between several parishes and is the pastor of all of them roughly a 40 mile trip radius.There is no other place to teach the people. This is very common in my home state as there is a very low population per square mile. I believe we must do as we can with what we have. If the pastor of a parish is working hard to draw us closer to Jesus than they are truly following their call.

Some of the members here at CAF can be quite zealous. This is especially true of the Traditional Catholicism forum. Rest assured that most of CAF is not this way. I am sorry you had to discover this with your first thread.

 

[superamazingman]

He did explain that certain prayers (a minority) are allowed to be spontaneous per the rubrics, did he not? Perhaps he was more clear on that the previous year but it was explained.

I’ll grant the stole issue. Most of the time he wore his chasuble over his stole. I don’t know why they ended up reversed that day.

But here’s the thing: they aren’t allowed to be spontaneous at those points. And in case you’re wondering, it was not allowed to be spontaneous for the opening payer in the old translation missal either. Therein the problem.

 

[YoungTradCath]

I’m rather ambivalent about this and so I will not concern myself too much with it.

 

[maryjk]

I understand what everyone is saying about having an “as-you-go” teaching Mass that includes the Eucharist, thats not my intention.
I am saying a teaching of the Mass that is explanatory of the wonder and beauty, i experience in Mass, would be nice. But in the actual sanctuary so i dont have to 'pretend" to see the altar and tabernacle and so forth.
RCIA seems to make a quick overall this is what it is…any questions…thats kind of a let down when i am feeling something so spiritual during the Mass and would like to know more about it. Maybe some RCIA classes are more in depth at other parishes…

Our “Come and See” Mass is a full Mass. But as I said it is on a Thursday night, not a Sunday morning.

And for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the priest explains most of it before hand and then leaves his mic on so everyone can hear all of the prayers, even the ones he normally says to himself.

He doesn’t explain anything else until it is time to receive. Then he goes over who can receive. We tend to have many non-Catholics at this Mass, so it is important to remind them that they cannot receive.

 

[TimothyH]

Or even respectfully and quietly in the church explaining everything outside of a Mass?

Easy… Just omit bread.

No bread = no Mass.

Then they can do anything they want within reason.

-Tim-

 

[CB_Catholic]

Will someone please answer this one question for me with a direct answer…

In what way would this proposed teaching situation be any less useful or effective if it were outside the sanctuary during a “real Mass”, but rather in a classroom setting where no actual consecration is taking place? Why is it so imperative that this occur during a real Mass?

~Liza

My guess would be that few people would bother to attend, except those that attend everything, whereas at Mass, you have a large number of people–esp. ones that need it most. If you are serious about reaching the majority of parishioners, you go where they show up.

Personally, I think my daughter’s Pastor had the right idea. He did not interrupt Mass. He taught it in a series of homilies over 6 weeks. In a very large parish this might be more difficult if there are a lot of time constraints. But you are not interrupting Mass. I think it is a worthwhile pursuit and the audience is, er, captive. (They were notified ahead of time so they could make other arrangements if needed).

 

[YoungTradCath]

Easy… Just omit bread.

No bread = no Mass.

Then they can do anything they want within reason.

-Tim-

Tim, we finally agree on something. =]

Do a “Mass,” but clearly let everyone know it isn’t real and is just for catechesis, and use perhaps a piece of cheese for the “bread” and some water for the “wine.” Perhaps there can be no words of consecration so as to not desacralize their dignity. Record it on video and then give a copy to those interested.

 

[Reuben_J]

Wow. I did not think I would find such animosity springing from a simple post for help finding teaching material. Not only do I find people debating something they have not experienced for themselves but also something many bishops encourage their priests to do as a form of bringing us to a deeper and more meaningful experiences at mass. To clarify, the teaching mass I attended was an actual mass. However, not all of these “Teaching Masses” have a consecration of the host/wine. After the homily, prior to any Eucharistic prayers, etc. the priest explained the the consecration of the holy eucharist is to be so reverent that he would not interrupt or explain during that period. Instead he told us what he would be doing and why prior to moving forward with the mass. In the video I did find that was a teaching mass there was no consecration just an explanation of what takes place during this part of the mass.

Hi. I hope you don’t feel too bad about this. It is a matter of discussion and both sides see what they are talking about. The subject you brought forwards can be seen two-folds - the specific about your parish and whether teaching about the mass should be in the mass. The latter would certainly generate some thought because the mass is very important to Catholics. It is good that we are not indifferent about it.

I also feel a need to clarify for some that not all parishes have access to classrooms for their teaching of the laity. Where I come from originally the Church is an old wooden structure that does not even have indoor bathrooms. There is no basement just a crawl space. The priest travels between several parishes and is the pastor of all of them roughly a 40 mile trip radius.There is no other place to teach the people. This is very common in my home state as there is a very low population per square mile. I believe we must do as we can with what we have. If the pastor of a parish is working hard to draw us closer to Jesus than they are truly following their call.

Fair enough. The pastor is doing his best and perhaps trying to kill two birds with one stone. So can I presume that the teaching is done primarily during the homily? If that is so, it would be less controversial; in fact we can hardly find any fault with it as it is the prerogative of the celebrant to say what is in his homily. Rightly he has to speak on the readings, of course, but there is some leeway for him to say what he wants.

In any case, the situation of your parish is certainly in need of a priest. The parishioners are locals and the only time you have the priest is during the mass. He has done well. I remember saying that the priest does have to fit the situation. He can’t do that in my cathedral for example, where any mass that last more than one and half hours would cause terrible mayhem outside – the traffic congestion and bottleneck as the parishioners for the next mass start to pour in. With nearly two thousand people per mass for the three masses in the morning with barely two hours given for each, the logistic would be a nightmare if there is no discipline with time. The cathedral is always packed and if people come late they will be standing at the back because the pews are full.

We held a program for disseminating information on the GIRM sometimes back and it was well attended. With follow-up announcement during the mass, distributing fliers, and zone meetings and visits to the parishioners, most of them know what is going on. Obviously your pastor can’t do that and given the situation, he is doing the best he can.

God bless.

 

[TimothyH]

Tim, we finally agree on something. =]

Do a “Mass,” but clearly let everyone know it isn’t real and is just for catechesis, and use perhaps a piece of cheese for the “bread” and some water for the “wine.” Perhaps there can be no words of consecration so as to not desacralize their dignity. Record it on video and then give a copy to those interested.

You know, I thought about you when I read this thread.

I’ve never faulted a priest who gets caught up in the spirit of the moment and goes off script for a bit out of genuine love for Christ, and I’m all for allowing the Holy Spirit to work as the Holy Spirit sees fit to work. But what the OP describes is something where the priest stops the liturgy throughout to explain what is happening. I’m sure it will benefit many. I wouldn’t like a Mass like that though, but then again I know the Mass reasonably well. At least I can spell epiclesis.

There has to be an integrity to the liturgy. I don’t think the right place to do it is in a real Mass, and agree entirely with your comments.

-Tim-