Techniques to transform your heterodox parish into a model of orthodoxy

[Lepanto]

Let’s say you’re a member of a liberal parish with a so-so priest. in a liberal diocese. The people are friendly enough but they have been so liberal for so long under different pastors that they don’t know that they are liberal. They think it’s the norm. (Liturgical abuses, openness to priestesses, few devotions to Mary, anti-clericalism, etc.)

What are some techniques to slowly shift the parish back to the orthodoxy?

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Let’s say you’re a member of a liberal parish with a so-so priest. in a liberal diocese. The people are friendly enough but they have been so liberal for so long under different pastors that they don’t know that they are liberal. They think it’s the norm. (Liturgical abuses, openness to priestesses, few devotions to Mary, anti-clericalism, etc.)

What are some techniques to slowly shift the parish back to the orthodoxy?

Only a holy priest will be able to transform a luke-warm parish; only a good bishop (who uses his authority by punishing bad priests) will transform his diocese, and only a good Pope (who punishes waward Bishops) will transform the Church.

In a day when the Pope allows the heretical Bishops to do as they please; when the Bishops allow the priest to do as they please, the only hope for a faithful Catholic to keep the faith is to pray that there is one priest in his area that still has the faith, and attend that Church.

If you have a Traditional Mass in your area, chances are the priest is good. Thus, the simple answer is to flee the liberal/heretical parish and find a Church that offers the Traditional Latin mass.

There is indeed a “new springtime” happening as we speak and the fruits are wonderful. You will find this new springtime at a Traditional parish near you.

 

[Lepanto]

Only a holy priest will be able to transform a luke-warm parish; only a good bishop (who uses his authority by punishing bad priests) will transform his diocese, and only a good Pope (who punishes waward Bishops) will transform the Church.

In a day when the Pope allows the heretical Bishops to do as they please; when the Bishops allow the priest to do as they please, the only hope for a faithful Catholic to keep the faith is to pray that there is one priest in his area that still has the faith, and attend that Church.

If you have a Traditional Mass in your area, chances are the priest is good. Thus, the simple answer is to flee the liberal/heretical parish and find a Church that offers the Traditional Latin mass.

There is indeed a “new springtime” happening as we speak and the fruits are wonderful. You will find this new springtime at a Traditional parish near you.

Thank you for your reply, but it’s been my observation that the bishop has little say or presence in my parish. He is a distant figure. Most of the parishoners wouldn’t know him if he walked in the door, and besides they would disregard what he would say anyways.

I think the transformation has to be done at the grass-roots level (by the parishioners). The top-down approach will not work here.

 

[ziggernaut]

Only a holy priest will be able to transform a luke-warm parish; only a good bishop (who uses his authority by punishing bad priests) will transform his diocese, and only a good Pope (who punishes waward Bishops) will transform the Church.

In a day when the Pope allows the heretical Bishops to do as they please; when the Bishops allow the priest to do as they please, the only hope for a faithful Catholic to keep the faith is to pray that there is one priest in his area that still has the faith, and attend that Church.

I think Pax et Caritas is, unfortunately, correct about this. Perhaps, if the parish is quite small, you might have some impact with a “grassroots” effort, but I would be doubtful even about that. We have been in a similar situation at our local parish, but have found a refreshingly orthodox (not TLM) parish not too far away. Thanks be to God! And that is what you will probably end up having to do, too.

Perhaps as, and if heterodox parishes shrink in membership and nearby orthodox parishes grow, priests and bishops will begin to wake up and see what is happening with their flocks. It really is a no-brainer, hungry creatures go where they will be properly fed.

God Bless and good luck!
Jeff

 

[Yes]

Let’s say you’re a member of a liberal parish with a so-so priest. in a liberal diocese. The people are friendly enough but they have been so liberal for so long under different pastors that they don’t know that they are liberal. They think it’s the norm. (Liturgical abuses, openness to priestesses, few devotions to Mary, anti-clericalism, etc.)

What are some techniques to slowly shift the parish back to the orthodoxy?

To be honest, you don’t stand a chance. Your misuse of the term “liberal” says a lot about you, or at least it would in my part of the world. My very best advice to you is to find another parish that suits you.

 

[chrysostom15]

Start up a Legion of Mary.

From the Concluding Prayers of the Legion of Mary

Confer, O Lord, on us, who serve beneath the standard of Mary, that fullness of faith in You and trust in her, to which it is given to conquer the world. Grant us a lively faith, animated by charity, which will enable us to perform all our actions from the motive of pure love of You, and ever to see You and serve You in our neighbor; a faith, firm and immovable as a rock, through which we shall rest tranquil and steadfast amid the crosses, toils and disappointments of life; a courageous faith which will inspire us to undertake and carry out without hesitation great things for your glory and for the salvation of souls; a faith which will be our Legion’s Pillar of Fire - to lead us forth united - to kindle everywhere the fires of divine love - to enlighten those who are in darkness and in the shadow of death - to inflame those who are lukewarm - to bring back life to those who are dead in sin; and which will guide our own feet in the way of peace; so that - the battle of life over - our Legion may reassemble, without the loss of any one, in the kingdom of Your love and glory. Amen.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Only a holy priest will be able to transform a luke-warm parish; only a good bishop (who uses his authority by punishing bad priests) will transform his diocese, and only a good Pope (who punishes waward Bishops) will transform the Church.

In a day when the Pope allows the heretical Bishops to do as they please; when the Bishops allow the priest to do as they please, the only hope for a faithful Catholic to keep the faith is to pray that there is one priest in his area that still has the faith, and attend that Church.

If you have a Traditional Mass in your area, chances are the priest is good. Thus, the simple answer is to flee the liberal/heretical parish and find a Church that offers the Traditional Latin mass.

There is indeed a “new springtime” happening as we speak and the fruits are wonderful. You will find this new springtime at a Traditional parish near you.

This won’t work it will only decimate the parish. The church I grew up with was on the moderate side (good people, just do not want to worry about all the rules all the time as it distracts from true faith). As I was leaving high school he came in and pretty much reduced the parish to a shadow of its former self over 12 years. It was the more “orthodox NO” way, not a full return to Latin. Parish attendance dropped off to at best a quarter to a third of what it was before, most of the leaders in the community (doctors, lawyers, dentists, business owners, etc…) either left in disgust or were literally kicked out and went to neighboring town parishes. The Catholic elementary school shrunk from K-6, 20-25 students/class to K-4 4-8 students/class. It went from 4 services/weekend to 2 services in English/weekend and one Spanish mass/weekend. Spanish masses filled the place but English masses were at bet a third full.

In the end the priest was actually promoted to Monsignor after decimating the parish spiritually and financially. It is a sad story, but the new parish he is going too, while more “conservative/orthodox” to start with may still be in for a surprise.

 

[Genesis315]

Pray with tears of fire. That’s what I did. We had a priest who used to preach all religions are good. Recently he started preaching that we must spread Gospel and those who hear and believe will be saved and those that do not believe will be condemned. He now preaches that if one wants the truth and what is necessary for the soul, one must be Catholic.

I have also been praying for a priest at the parish I would go to when I visited my mother. He preached a general culture of dissent, especiall concerning priestly celibacy and the “sprit of Vatican II.” He too has changed. Recently I heard him preach that one cannot have Jesus while refusing to obey the Church, one cannot have the Holy Spirit separate from the Church, and a great homilee on the evils of secularism and Islam and the need to evangelize both culture.

If you have patience and faith, God will work wonders. The saints will testify to the same miraculious changes that they prayed for

 

[Yes]

This won’t work it will only decimate the parish. The church I grew up with was on the moderate side (good people, just do not want to worry about all the rules all the time as it distracts from true faith)…

That’s a pernicious lie. Celebrating the Mass “by the book” does the exact opposite. It underscores and nourishes our faith. That said, it should be a given through good (and gentle) ongoing catechesis, coupled with clear expectations.

What it should not be is a bitter and obsessive harangue that could well produce the outcome you described.

 

[Elzee]

I wish there was an answer to this question. I’ve been trying to ‘make a difference’ in my parish for years. I finally realized it’s something I ultimately can’t do. Now I pray, pray, and pray more. I still do what I can, but I’ve realized it really is out of my control. I pray a lot for our priest. And I pray a lot for our Bishop - that when it’s time to move our priest on to a new assignment that we receive a priest who will restore the Catholic identity of our parish.

 

[spangler1982]

One parish I heard of had some concerned parishioners hire a private investigator to follow their pastor around. He took some pictures of the priest in some, let’s say “un-flattering” circumstances. The pictures were sent to the local bishop and/or the Vatican and the priest was promptly removed from the parish (and I think from all active ministry, for that matter). The parish was then given a new, more orthodox priest who was more open-minded into bringing back more traditional forms of worship and devotion. Gone were the Dignity Masses and things like that.

Could the use of hiring a private investigator be an evil means of achieving a good end? I don’t know. Like I said, this example is just hear-say. I think I may have heard someone on EWTN tell this story, though.

Weather it’s would be good or not, I think the hiring of a private investigator to expose the unacceptable deeds of a pastor would have to be a last resort. You would probably have to try other means first in the tradition of Christian charity. Matthew 18:15-20. is a good model for confronting someone in error.

One of the best books I’ve read that confronts issues like these is Father Forgive Me, for I am Frustrated. by Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

That’s a pernicious lie. Celebrating the Mass “by the book” does the exact opposite. It underscores and nourishes our faith. That said, it should be a given through good (and gentle) ongoing catechesis, coupled with clear expectations.

What it should not be is a bitter and obsessive harangue that could well produce the outcome you described.

I just spoke from personal experience and that is what happened, an overemphasis on the “rules” and an underemphasis on spirituality and everything fell apart. The sense of shared community was lost and it felt like it was mini-kingdom ran exclusively by the priest and nobody else had any say whatsoever in anything.

 

[Walking_Home]

I just spoke from personal experience and that is what happened, an overemphasis on the “rules” and an underemphasis on spirituality and everything fell apart. The sense of shared community was lost and it felt like it was mini-kingdom ran exclusively by the priest and nobody else had any say whatsoever in anything.

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Then—that was not the priests fault. I would say there was an over emphasis on the so called “spirituality” that led these people to “fall apart”. True spirituality guides us towards and with the Church—not against Her.

 

[jmcrae]

Arrive 20 minutes before Mass begins, get down on your knees, and pray the Rosary. When the little kids stare at you and say, “What’s that person doing?” don’t stop, be embarrassed, or turn around - let their parents explain it to them. Also, kneel for the Consecration every time, no matter what everyone else is doing, and stay after Mass to kneel in front of the Tabernacle to say your post-Communion prayers.

Even if this doesn’t actually work, you’ll feel better, anyway - and who knows, it just might - it has in the past.

 

[mdgspencer]

Why not have both, the rules and spirituality? (Though I am not sure what rules you are talking about.) I recall that Jesus said at the last supper, if you love me, you will obey my commandments.

I just spoke from personal experience and that is what happened, an overemphasis on the “rules” and an underemphasis on spirituality and everything fell apart. The sense of shared community was lost and it felt like it was mini-kingdom ran exclusively by the priest and nobody else had any say whatsoever in anything.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

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Then—that was not the priests fault. I would say there was an over emphasis on the so called “spirituality” that led these people to “fall apart”. True spirituality guides us towards and with the Church—not against Her.

I would disagree, this now opens up the discussion as to why many people still attend church and what drives them away. People who search out religions (beyond the RCC) are looking for some spiritual connection and guidance. If it is all rules this, bash this non-church that week after week, year after year, something is wrong. Way back at the start the RCC (pre-Constantine) it was a group of people coming together first for community at someone’s house, it was a form of renewal. There was no sense of personal renewal anymore, nothing that could really be applied to day to day lives.

Being a shepard does not mean ruling them with a iron-hand or rod. There has to be compassion and guidance, help the community to help themselves and in turn others. The “orthodox” approach lead to a withering of the fruit on the vines in my real life example. The ones who left were far from what would be called “radicals”, just good old “salt of the earth” people trying to do their best day in and day out.

 

[Walking_Home]

I would disagree, this now opens up the discussion as to why many people still attend church and what drives them away. People who search out religions (beyond the RCC) are looking for some spiritual connection and guidance. If it is all rules this, bash this non-church that week after week, year after year, something is wrong. Way back at the start the RCC (pre-Constantine) it was a group of people coming together first for community at someone’s house, it was a form of renewal. There was no sense of personal renewal anymore, nothing that could really be applied to day to day lives.

Being a shepard does not mean ruling them with a iron-hand or rod. There has to be compassion and guidance, help the community to help themselves and in turn others. The “orthodox” approach lead to a withering of the fruit on the vines in my real life example. The ones who left were far from what would be called “radicals”, just good old “salt of the earth” people trying to do their best day in and day out.

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Oh I see----so the Church has been doing it wrong. Maybe—it would be better for all to sit around the Altar (excuse me —table), then Holy Communion would be brought to the people where they sit. I mean—it is just terrible that the Church did not continue to do the “community” thing—and churches were built–rules installed to protect our Faith and liturgy.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

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Oh I see----so the Church has been doing it wrong. Maybe—it would be better for all to sit around the Altar (excuse me —table), then Holy Communion would be brought to the people where they sit. I mean—it is just terrible that the Church did not continue to do the “community” thing—and churches were built–rules installed to protect our Faith and liturgy.

Isn’t that what all parishes are supposed to be, a community? A community of people with common interests coming together to help themselves and in turn others? Your post appears it is either one or the other, that to have community you need to not have rules. Parishes are more than just the masses, responsibilities go beyond the priest, he cannot do everything alone all the time. Parish communities are people who are inspired by what they hear every week to take the weekly or daily readings beyond the building walls to others. A Pentacost-like renewal every week.

Focusing only on the rules and negatives of the outside world (a neo-anti-Catholic-persecution-like complex is what it appeared to be like, which was out of touch with the changes of acceptance with other denominations over the years) week after week after week… like I experienced with others does not bring about a Pentacost-like renewal, it chills hearts, creates apathy and indifference, it is not a trait of a good shepard. He is not tending to the mustard seeds, but leaving them sit on the hard, rocky ground.

 

[Walking_Home]

Isn’t that what all parishes are supposed to be, a community? A community of people with common interests coming together to help themselves and in turn others? Your post appears it is either one or the other, that to have community you need to not have rules. Parishes are more than just the masses, responsibilities go beyond the priest, he cannot do everything alone all the time. Parish communities are people who are inspired by what they hear every week to take the weekly or daily readings beyond the building walls to others. A Pentacost-like renewal every week.

Focusing only on the rules and negatives of the outside world (a neo-anti-Catholic-persecution-like complex is what it appeared to be like, which was out of touch with the changes of acceptance with other denominations over the years) week after week after week… like I experienced with others does not bring about a Pentacost-like renewal, it chills hearts, creates apathy and indifference, it is not a trait of a good shepard. He is not tending to the mustard seeds, but leaving them sit on the hard, rocky ground.

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Yes—we are a community within and guided by the Church. This free-wheeling concept of community —your are expounding–is a protestant concept—where each “community” goes and does their “own thing”. Protestant communities do their own form of Pentacost-like renewal. If a member does not like their current “community”—they go in search of one that fits their “spirituality”. Some go to the local bible college for 1 or 2 years —then start their own Pentacost-like renewal “community”.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

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Yes—we are a community within and guided by the Church. This free-wheeling concept of community —your are expounding–is a protestant concept—where each “community” goes and does their “own thing”. Protestant communities do their own form of Pentacost-like renewal. If a member does not like their current “community”—they go in search of one that fits their “spirituality”. Some go to the local bible college for 1 or 2 years —then start their own Pentacost-like renewal “community”.

This is “free-wheeling”? So, are you are against any form of community in parishes? Mass and being religious is supposed to go beyond buildings. That is one reason Vatican II came about, as there was a “bunker mentality” in the RCC at that time, nothing else mattered beyond the walls of the building. Things were overly-ritual focused and over time they become almost reflex and loose their meaning to many people. While some religious groups can focus on endless ritual, the average person cannot as they chose not to live that type of life, so their church and mass expierence needs to transcend that to day to day life.

While it can seem overwhelming looking at all the world’s problems, you learn enough about yourself to see your strengths to do what you can do, it encourages public service. To think that one person, one priest can carry the entire burden for the entire parish is not good for either.