Ted Haggard scandal

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Well, I have to say I didn’t rejoice, although a nice Irish Catholic couple were very nice. I did have a stiff drink later. I suppose I would have to be a lot more holy to rejoice. The key here is for fundamentalists to stick to major issues and not try to make hay out of the scandals. I would much rather debate the Immaculate Conception with them.

As for accountablity, Ted was only accountable because he got caught. There is no accountability in most fundamentalist churches.
 
cestusdei said:
Contrari, Haggard was head of the evangelicals association. He is as close to a pope as they get. I never let them weasel out of these things by claiming the guy wan’t a fundamentalist when in fact he was.

I don’t think it is uncharitable, since they brought the issue up, to challenge them on the same grounds.
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Dude, you need to work through your bitterness.

Kendy
 
cestusdei said:
Rev. Ted Haggard pastor of New Life church in CO and head of the National Association of Evangelicals has been accused of being involved in a homosexual relationship with a male prostitute. His congregation is investigating the accusation. As of yet there is no conclusion. This should prove interesting.
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Hi,

I just noticed that you are a PRIEST:eek: I am shocked and appauled that you are slinging such mud. I thought ,as a man of God, you would be taking the higher moral ground on this.😦 Priest and ministers and rabbis etc. are held to a higher accountability to God. You are to be a good example to your flocks.:mad:

Im sorry, you have just crushed my spirit tonight.😦 When priests have been found guilty, I have prayed for them and have felt sorry for all involved. I, honestly, have never heard of anyone in my inner circles bad mouth these priests. People in my church say we should pray for them not condemn or judge them.

I thought love covered a multitude of sins. Sometimes it is better to KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!

Ok my rant is over.
 
Ahimsa said:
Latest press release.

Excerpt:

November 4, 2006

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New Life Church
Colorado Springs, Colorado

We, the Overseer Board of New Life Church, have concluded our deliberations concerning the moral failings of Pastor Ted Haggard. Our investigation and Pastor Haggard’s public statements have proven without a doubt that he has committed sexually immoral conduct…
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Wow! Well, I am really glad that they are acting so swiftly and decisively.

Kendy
 
cestusdei said:
Well, I have to say I didn’t rejoice, although a nice Irish Catholic couple were very nice. I did have a stiff drink later. I suppose I would have to be a lot more holy to rejoice. The key here is for fundamentalists to stick to major issues and not try to make hay out of the scandals. I would much rather debate the Immaculate Conception with them.

As for accountablity, Ted was only accountable because he got caught. There is no accountability in most fundamentalist churches.
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This is not true. I have seen several people lose jobs, and or leadership positions for sinful behavior in evangelical churches. In one church I was involved in, a woman was not allowed to lead bible study and had to grow through months of “healing” for a sin that was never shared with the community.

Kendy
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,

I just noticed that you are a PRIEST:eek: I am shocked and appauled that you are slinging such mud. I thought ,as a man of God, you would be taking the higher moral ground on this.😦 Priest and ministers and rabbis etc. are held to a higher accountability to God. You are to be a good example to your flocks.:mad:

.
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I fail to see what in his post was slinging mud. It looked to me like a preety striaightforward , non-judgemental recitation of the facts.
 
cestusdei said:
Well, I have to say I didn’t rejoice, although a nice Irish Catholic couple were very nice. I did have a stiff drink later. I suppose I would have to be a lot more holy to rejoice. The key here is for fundamentalists to stick to major issues and not try to make hay out of the scandals. I would much rather debate the Immaculate Conception with them.

As for accountablity, Ted was only accountable because he got caught. There is no accountability in most fundamentalist churches.
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The priests involved in the sex scandals were also held accountable only because they got caught…many of them decades after the fact.

If you want to stick to major issues, the Immaculate Conception is not one of them. It is a Catholic teaching, not a Christian teaching.
 
Skeletons in the closet
Catholics aren’t the only ones with something to hide.
seattleweekly.com/news/0217/news-anderson.php
Welcome to a collection of news reports of ministers sexually abusing children:
reformation.com/

Jim Hopper, Ph.D.
(last revised 9/6/2006)
Introduction - Unavoidable Controversies & Biases, in Historical Contexts
Sources of Statistics - Official Numbers, Actual Numbers, & Estimates
Statistics Are Human Creations - Tools to Avoid Being Confused & Misled

Official Statistics: United States
Official Statistics: Canada
Official Statistics: Australia
Official Statistics: England
jimhopper.com/abstats/#s-intro

Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent

In 1994, Shakeshaft and Audrey Cohan did a study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York City. Their findings are astounding. All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach.
catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm
 
We have a scandal right now in my home town involving a Baptist Church and molestations of little children! It’s sickening.
 
This is more of a commentary. These days people tend to think sex scandals only deals with Catholics because of the sex scandal. I have talk to many Non-Catholic Christians that it is not a Catholic issue. It is Christian issue. Ted Haggard is one example. He is well known Evangelical and now scandalize over the his possible involvement with a gay escort for sexual gains.

Catholic priests, and Protestant ministers who have a religious responsibility needs our prayers now more than ever.
 
I’m watching Dateline NBC right now and it’s clear that child molestation or any other sexual indescretion is not a Catholic issue.
 
The BBC just loooooooooove to pin child sex abuse onto Catholic priests.

They are so desperate that when they get news that a Prod is at it, they somewhow manage to label the Prod a ‘Priest’!

I note other UK media do this too.

I do not know who is most insulted: the Caths copping the blame for the wayward Prods, or a self respecting Prod being labelled a ‘priest’!
 
I’m slinging mud? By starting a thread on an issue that is on every news site? By pointing out that fundamentalists have been have a hay day attacking Catholicism? By pointing out that now they have their very own scandal to mourn? I have said nothing untrue about Haggard. In fact if you look back at all of my posts you will find I have said virtually NOTHING about him at all. Point out to me where I said I was rejoicing at his downfall. You won’t find it. He isn’t the real issue. The issue I was, and am, addressing is fundamentalist anti-Catholicism. This sorry incident will make it more difficult for them to launch such attacks in our direction. That is simply a fact. If you want mud slinging you can find it on their sites. But don’t blame me for pointing out facts.
 
Sixtus said:
The BBC just loooooooooove to pin child sex abuse onto Catholic priests.

They are so desperate that when they get news that a Prod is at it, they somewhow manage to label the Prod a ‘Priest’!

I note other UK media do this too.

I do not know who is most insulted: the Caths copping the blame for the wayward Prods, or a self respecting Prod being labelled a ‘priest’!
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British media are used to Anglicans, who are generally regarded as Protestants yet routinely refer to their clergy as priests. Hence, the British media, being ignorant of Christianity on the whole (particularly of the varieties of low-church Protestantism), regularly call all Christian clergy “priests.” A particularly ludicrous example was an article in the *Times *on the Plymouth Brethren that referred to a PB “priest”–this even though the PB’s don’t have any ordained clergy at all! I can see why you would think this was a slur against Catholicism, but it is more likely to be simply the result of the BBC’s ignorance and the prominence of Anglicanism.

Edwin
 
cestusdei said:
Contrari, Haggard was head of the evangelicals association. He is as close to a pope as they get. I never let them weasel out of these things by claiming the guy wan’t a fundamentalist when in fact he was.

I don’t think it is uncharitable, since they brought the issue up, to challenge them on the same grounds.
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Might I encourage you, Father, to study the differences between fundamentalists and evangelicals? You routinely use the terms interchangeably, but they are not. The NAE was founded as part of a movement *away *from fundamentalism. Member churches define themselves precisely by not being either fundamentalist or liberal. Real fundamentalists wouldn’t touch the NAE with a ten-foot pole. They would regard it as a compromising, perhaps even apostate organization.

I understand why you’d see the head of the NAE as an evangelical equivalent of the Pope, but he’s much more equivalent to the head of the USCCB–a bureaucratic figure with little name recognition and no symbolic value. Institutional leaders simply don’t have that kind of importance for Protestants. If you want a rough equivalent to the Pope, you’d have to take someone like Billy Graham.

I am a lifelong evangelical (at least in some sense), and a student of the history of Christianity besides, and I had no idea who the head of the NAE was until earlier this year. I looked it up because I was applying for a job with an evangelical college that required all faculty to subscribe to the NAE’s statement of faith. I thought I should learn a little more about the NAE to see just how they defined “evangelicalism,” since I was trying to decide whether I could work within that framework.

I understand your frustration with fundamentalists. But I repeat–any fundamentalist would denounce someone like Haggard as a false prophet.

Here are just a few examples of fundamentalists denouncing evangelicalism (of the NAE sort) in general and Haggard in particular:

How to Identify New Evangelicalism
The Evangelical Cave-In Has Begun
The New Downgrade No-Controversy

Here are some fundamentalist sites that clearly identify the NAE with the “neo-evangelicalism” they despise (note that the NAE’s ecumenical attitude to Catholicism is one of the things they specifically condemn):

rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/nae/nae.htm
wayoflife.org/fbns/grahamrome1.htm
(Note in particular the claim that “Today it is no exaggeration to say that almost without exception those who call themselves Evangelicals are New Evangelicals; the terms have become synonymous.”)

Please present your evidence linking Haggard to fundamentalism, and explain the very specific evidence I have given you showing that fundamentalists condemn Haggard personally and the evangelicalism of the NAE more broadly.

Fundamentalists do, in fact, have their scandals. But this isn’t one of them.

Edwin
 
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cestusdei said:
I’m slinging mud? By starting a thread on an issue that is on every news site? By pointing out that fundamentalists have been have a hay day attacking Catholicism? By pointing out that now they have their very own scandal to mourn? I have said nothing untrue about Haggard. In fact if you look back at all of my posts you will find I have said virtually NOTHING about him at all. Point out to me where I said I was rejoicing at his downfall. You won’t find it. He isn’t the real issue. The issue I was, and am, addressing is fundamentalist anti-Catholicism. This sorry incident will make it more difficult for them to launch such attacks in our direction. That is simply a fact. If you want mud slinging you can find it on their sites. But don’t blame me for pointing out facts.
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You are right! Of course you are right! No religion is without sinners and the things said against Catholics devastates me. It would be easier to lose my arm or be thrown in a ditch than to hear what is said about my beautiful Church.

But I don’t want to be like other religions that castigate our Church during such a terrible time. Let us be the model as Jesus Christ was and be charitable and non judgemental. We Catholics are pained by what has been going on yet we would be no better than non-catholics if we began harrassing other relgions for their sins.

We are the model and we are above it.
 
cestusdei said:
I’m slinging mud? By starting a thread on an issue that is on every news site? By pointing out that fundamentalists have been have a hay day attacking Catholicism? By pointing out that now they have their very own scandal to mourn? I have said nothing untrue about Haggard. In fact if you look back at all of my posts you will find I have said virtually NOTHING about him at all. Point out to me where I said I was rejoicing at his downfall. You won’t find it. He isn’t the real issue. The issue I was, and am, addressing is fundamentalist anti-Catholicism. This sorry incident will make it more difficult for them to launch such attacks in our direction. That is simply a fact. If you want mud slinging you can find it on their sites. But don’t blame me for pointing out facts.
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Hi,
The fact that you brought it up at all is 😦
 
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