Teen says she's atheist

[styrgwillidar]

Well, I promised to raise my kids as Catholics, which means to instruct them in the faith. Ultimately, they will decide to accept it or not as they become adults.

So, since every child is different, you as the parent need to decide what is most likely to work with your child to help them truly understand the faith. Some will harden their hearts and become more stubborn at perceived pressure, some will be grateful for more information and effort from you. Your call to make.

Your daughter has asked some legitimate questions. She needs to get the- sorry it just works- Catholic Answers. It is hard to understand why there is so much evil, pain, and suffering in this world with our Loving God. I would advise getting her some good Catholic books on the subject, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, etc.

Christ suffered on the cross, how could God expect that of his own Son? Becuase it was the way provide the gift of salvation to all mankind. Why did that have to involve pain? I don’t know. But Christ’s Love for us is not demonstrated by His Glory, it is apparent to us in the sacrifices He was willing to make for us. The pain He was willing to endure is a greater testimony to His love for mankind than His words or His transfiguration.

A lot of suffering and evil are the choices of men. A consquence of God creating beings with free will vice biological robots with no choice in the matter, just programmed to act in a certain way.

For the 12 year old man of science. Catholicism and Science both explain the existence of the universe in the same way-- it sprang into being in an instant. Nothing became something.

A good book for him to read would be Dinesh D’souzas “Life After Death”. It points to some of the things science has posited and even accepted on faith, not direct evidence. Multiple universes and dark matter for example.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Well, I promised to raise my kids as Catholics, which means to instruct them in the faith. Ultimately, they will decide to accept it or not as they become adults.

So, since every child is different, you as the parent need to decide what is most likely to work with your child to help them truly understand the faith. Some will harden their hearts and become more stubborn at perceived pressure, some will be grateful for more information and effort from you. Your call to make.

Your daughter has asked some legitimate questions. She needs to get the- sorry it just works- Catholic Answers. It is hard to understand why there is so much evil, pain, and suffering in this world with our Loving God. I would advise getting her some good Catholic books on the subject, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, etc.

Christ suffered on the cross, how could God expect that of his own Son? Becuase it was the way provide the gift of salvation to all mankind. Why did that have to involve pain? I don’t know. But Christ’s Love for us is not demonstrated by His Glory, it is apparent to us in the sacrifices He was willing to make for us. The pain He was willing to endure is a greater testimony to His love for mankind than His words or His transfiguration.

A lot of suffering and evil are the choices of men. A consquence of God creating beings with free will vice biological robots with no choice in the matter, just programmed to act in a certain way.

For the 12 year old man of science. Catholicism and Science both explain the existence of the universe in the same way-- it sprang into being in an instant. Nothing became something.

A good book for him to read would be Dinesh D’souzas “Life After Death”. It points to some of the things science has posited and even accepted on faith, not direct evidence. Multiple universes and dark matter for example.

Yes and share with your scientific son, who came up with the Big Bang Theory…

FATHER Georges Lemaitre

Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[1][2] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble’s law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble’s article.[3][4][5][6] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom

 

[ThatCatholic]

the work is not “unnecessary”. The pets ( 4 dogs, a cat, a tortoise and a parrot) need to be fed and watered twice daily. The boy’s bedroom gets disgusting if I let it go a even a day. And the stuff left laying around the living room is, for the most part, his mess.

Mea culpa. It sounded from your post as though the work in question was not something he had to daily anyway, but that he had to do it specifically because it was Sunday. I also second another poster’s suggestion point out that some of the greatest scientists in history have not only Catholics, but priests as well. BTW, does he object to anything specific regarding the notion that Science is compatable with Catholicism, or does he just assume them to be incompatable based on society holding that viewpoint?

 

[Costner]

Let her watch the exorcist… Or better yet invite her to watch the new movie that recently came out in theaters called The Conjuring. It’s also a horror movie but also shows the importance of faith in God. After watching it actually increased my faith more to be honest.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Originally Posted by MJJean
the work is not “unnecessary”. The pets ( 4 dogs, a cat, a tortoise and a parrot) need to be fed and watered twice daily. The boy’s bedroom gets disgusting if I let it go a even a day. And the stuff left laying around the living room is, for the most part, his mess.

I was also bothered by this. I think we all pictured “work” instead if mass as serving the poor, visiting the sick, true charitable work.

These are chores he could and should do regardless of if he goes to mass or not.

You are gone for 4 hrs.

Lets see

Feed the dogs -5 mins
Feed the cat- 2 mins
Feed the tortoise- 2 mins
Feed Parrot- 2mins

Clean room and living room- 1 hour. (I will be generous there I bet he spends 15 mins)

Regardless this leaves him with 3 hrs to do whatever he wants with no supervision.

Internet (do you track this…all the guys here know what we sought at age 12)
Movies/TV- Again do you have a way to ensure the wholesomeness of his unsupervised viewing.
Video Games.

No wonder he doesn’t want to go to mass!

 

[MJJean]

Can I just encourage you to take him to mass. He is not old enough to make this decision. He lives in your home and should follow your rules. You still have many formative years to train him and I’d just encourage you to require him to go. He doesn’t have to believe it but there’s no reason he can’t attend.

You know like if he hated his grandma and you all planned a trip to see her I’m sure you would make him go, and yet your not doing that with visiting God.

Actually, no, I wouldn’t. If he has a logical reason he does not wish to visit a relative I make other arrangements for him. Probably because my younger brother wasn’t fond of our grandmother and was made to visit her, including arrival and departure hugs and kisses. He is an adult now, our grandmother is still living, and he HATES her.

But I have encouraged him to go to RCIA and Mass. I have told him that he doesn’t have to believe, but just attend to investigate faith and to better understand the people that have faith.

I have pointed out that he doesn’t know what he is rejecting and rejecting without investigation is not logical. I also pointed out that humans need to be balanced and that science without some kind of spiritual belief is simply not balanced.

I even cited research that shows people with some kind of spiritual faith are healthier than those that do not have a faith. This, btw, has been shown to be true in our home. Since I began attending RCIA and Mass weekly my blood pressure has gone down and my medication dosage has been lowered.

For the 12 year old man of science. Catholicism and Science both explain the existence of the universe in the same way-- it sprang into being in an instant. Nothing became something.

A good book for him to read would be Dinesh D’souzas “Life After Death”. It points to some of the things science has posited and even accepted on faith, not direct evidence. Multiple universes and dark matter for example.

Thank you for the book recommendation! And please see my response to the next couple of quotes as it relates

Yes and share with your scientific son, who came up with the Big Bang Theory…

FATHER Georges Lemaitre

Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[1][2] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble’s law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble’s article.[3][4][5][6] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom

Thank you for the information!

The one time we got my son to go with us to RCIA and Mass was because it was the day of the parish picnic. He’s very food motivated.

He spoke with a gentleman in RCIA that is a scientist by trade. He spoke to the Sister that has been so helpful to us. Both told him about the Church’s friendly relationship with science and they both pointed out to him that some great scientists past and present were/are people of faith including some priests. No joy.

Mea culpa. It sounded from your post as though the work in question was not something he had to daily anyway, but that he had to do it specifically because it was Sunday. I also second another poster’s suggestion point out that some of the greatest scientists in history have not only Catholics, but priests as well. BTW, does he object to anything specific regarding the notion that Science is compatable with Catholicism, or does he just assume them to be incompatable based on society holding that viewpoint?

Well, yes and no on the chores. Usually the feeding and watering is done by my daughter in the am and my son in the pm or one will feed and the other water. On Sundays, because we are busy getting ready, I ask that he do it both am and pm. I have told him that if he were going with us I would adjust the schedule so that we were up earlier to take care of it. But, yes, the kids are expected to do light chores daily. He gets to do his while we are gone, my daughter and I do ours when we get home.

I believe his views are partially societal and partially because he is just such a logical creature he cannot believe in something he cannot see, hear, touch, taste, or smell. If we cannot *prove *to him god exists then He doesn’t as far as my son is concerned.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I believe his views are partially societal and partially because he is just such a logical creature he cannot believe in something he cannot see, hear, touch, taste, or smell. If we cannot *prove *to him god exists then He doesn’t as far as my son is concerned.

Check out for yourself and let your son dive into this scientific Catholic site:

magisreasonfaith.org/

It is Father Spitzer’s organization.

 

[MJJean]

I was also bothered by this. I think we all pictured “work” instead if mass as serving the poor, visiting the sick, true charitable work.

These are chores he could and should do regardless of if he goes to mass or not.

You are gone for 4 hrs.

Lets see

Feed the dogs -5 mins
Feed the cat- 2 mins
Feed the tortoise- 2 mins
Feed Parrot- 2mins

Clean room and living room- 1 hour. (I will be generous there I bet he spends 15 mins)

Regardless this leaves him with 3 hrs to do whatever he wants with no supervision.

Internet (do you track this…all the guys here know what we sought at age 12)
Movies/TV- Again do you have a way to ensure the wholesomeness of his unsupervised viewing.
Video Games.

No wonder he doesn’t want to go to mass!

You posted as I was responding to the others.

It does take a little longer with the dogs and parrot, but not by too much. Feeding and watering also includes taking them out to potty. One has to be taken out separately on leash because she is an escape artist and can get out of a fenced yard before you can say “bad dog!”. And, of course, each has to sniff around to find the perfect spot to go potty. Total on potty, feed water…maybe 30 minutes if the dogs do a lot of sniffing.

Feeding the tortoise and parrot involve getting fresh greens cut up and mixed in. The tortoise gets his water dish and pools emptied, wiped, refilled. So about 10 minutes there if he’s moving at his usual slower than molasses in January speed.

Feeding the cat on Sundays also involves emptying the litter box and taking the bag out to the trash. It’s his personal pet cat, btw. Since the cat and cat supplies are in his room, he might as well knock that out while he’s at it.

Living room really depends. Pick up random stuff left out, wipe 2 small tables and the TV stand, sweep and dustpan up the hardwood floors. Average: 30 minutes.

Yes, the boy child does have between 2-3 hours of leisure time. I may be a 38 year old “old lady”, but I remember being 12 and having a lot of 12 year old male friends back when dinosaurs roamed the suburbs. I know well what they’re interested in at that age. Which is why both the adults computer and the kids computer are password protected and locked while we are gone. The tv is not locked, but there are parental controls.

 

[MJJean]

Oh, and I have even tried guilt! My husband and daughter are in the choir. My eldest moved away to another state to live with her grandparents. She’s 19, so there was nothing I could do to keep her home. Normally, she would sit with me during Mass. My son knows I miss her and he is a sensitive and loving lil guy. So, seeing opportunity, I started sighing and moping. When he hugged me and asked why I was sad I told a pitiful tale of having to sit all alone. He was very sympathetic, but still wouldn’t go with.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Oh, and I have even tried guilt! My husband and daughter are in the choir. My eldest moved away to another state to live with her grandparents. She’s 19, so there was nothing I could do to keep her home. Normally, she would sit with me during Mass. My son knows I miss her and he is a sensitive and loving lil guy. So, seeing opportunity, I started sighing and moping. When he hugged me and asked why I was sad I told a pitiful tale of having to sit all alone. He was very sympathetic, but still wouldn’t go with.

A novel idea, but I still don’t understand why you can’t just tell him he is going period…

 

[MJJean]

A novel idea, but I still don’t understand why you can’t just tell him he is going period…

Me, either!

My husband was forced to attend Mass as a child and very much resented it. Once he was old enough to enforce his will he stopped going to Mass and became a Pagan and then Atheist. He left the Church for more than 20 years. He believes that he may have chosen differently if he had not been forced to attend. He promised the children that he would never force them to attend any religious services. He will not break that promise. I argued that I had made no such promise and that I could make the boy go. He said that I am also bound by the promise since we are husband and wife. He also said something about the promise he made giving the boy a reasonable expectation of protection from me making him go.

When we began RCIA, I appealed to the Sister for help as I thought attendance should be mandatory since the rest of the family was going. She said to never force the child to attend Mass, to pray for him, to live our faith, to casually mention things we learned, etc. and invite him with us every week.

I then appealed to our priest when I was meeting with him on my own regarding my annulment. He echoed the Sisters advice.

So frustrating!

 

[Jon_S_1]

Me, either!

My husband was forced to attend Mass as a child and very much resented it. Once he was old enough to enforce his will he stopped going to Mass and became a Pagan and then Atheist. He left the Church for more than 20 years. He believes that he may have chosen differently if he had not been forced to attend. He promised the children that he would never force them to attend any religious services. He will not break that promise. I argued that I had made no such promise and that I could make the boy go. He said that I am also bound by the promise since we are husband and wife. He also said something about the promise he made giving the boy a reasonable expectation of protection from me making him go.

When we began RCIA, I appealed to the Sister for help as I thought attendance should be mandatory since the rest of the family was going. She said to never force the child to attend Mass, to pray for him, to live our faith, to casually mention things we learned, etc. and invite him with us every week.

I then appealed to our priest when I was meeting with him on my own regarding my annulment. He echoed the Sisters advice.

So frustrating!

Yeah I don’t buy that advice. They are people too.

Your husband has these concerns, yet is a practicing Catholic today…probably because God and church was instilled in him as a child. These are the formative years.

If I had not had the foundation laid when I was a kid, when I walked away as an adult, I too probably would have stated away.

You are choosing to let your son be influenced by the culture and secularism in his formative years.

Something to think about.

 

[jmcrae]

Me, either!

My husband was forced to attend Mass as a child and very much resented it. Once he was old enough to enforce his will he stopped going to Mass and became a Pagan and then Atheist. He left the Church for more than 20 years.

It would have been 30 if he had been allowed to quit going as soon as he said it was boring. At least he had ten years of grace being given to him whether he wanted it or not.

He believes that he may have chosen differently if he had not been forced to attend.

I disagree. The less exposure you have to something as a child, the less likely you are to take it up as a lifestyle when you reach adulthood. And once you have acquired your habits, they are very difficult to change, once you reach adulthood - that’s why we instill good habits in children when they are young, so that it will be second-nature to them when they are adults.

 

[Mike_from_NJ]

He believes that he may have chosen differently if he had not been forced to attend.

That may have been true for him and others, but I don’t think there is a set one-to-one correlation between atheist kids returning to Catholicism and whether they are forced to attend mass.

The four possibilities are:

1. The child is forced to attend mass and returns to Catholicism.
2. The child is forced to attend mass and stays an atheist.
3. The child is not forced to attend mass and returns to Catholicism.
4. The child is not forced to attend mass and stays an atheist.

I know on CAF I’ve read stories of all four possibilites, so I think there is something more involved in getting the desired result. It may be the make up of the child and family or some other element not yet touched on. (By the way, you can chalk me up as possibility number 2 )

 

[jmcrae]

That may have been true for him and others, but I don’t think there is a set one-to-one correlation between atheist kids returning to Catholicism and whether they are forced to attend mass.

The four possibilities are:

1. The child is forced to attend mass and returns to Catholicism.
2. The child is forced to attend mass and stays an atheist.
3. The child is not forced to attend mass and returns to Catholicism.
4. The child is not forced to attend mass and stays an atheist.

I know on CAF I’ve read stories of all four possibilites, so I think there is something more involved in getting the desired result. It may be the make up of the child and family or some other element not yet touched on. (By the way, you can chalk me up as possibility number 2 )

1. The child has five important adults in his life, including at least one parent, and a peer group of friends of similar age who encourage him to persevere in his faith or to rediscover his faith. He stays in or returns to the Church and remains in it throughout his entire life.
2. The child has five important adults in his life, including at least one parent, and a peer group of friends of similar age, who make fun of people of faith, and treat Church-going as an optional “extra.” He leaves the Church as soon as his parents give him the option of staying home, and never returns.

Which five important adults, and which peer group, does your child have in his or her life?

 

[scorpio1990]

Coming from a one time atheist and a current in-betweener (is that a word?) of religions/faiths, don’t force the issue. I’ve had both friends and family try to convince/force me and it never turned out well.

Depending on your exact situation I would say try to draw parallels between what she thinks and what Catholicism teaches such as social justice issues, economic policy, etc. It may help to not out-right state that it is a Catholic teaching - she may think you’re trying to “re-convert” her as it were, but obviously do not lie if asked. That will open even more issues and make it harder for you.

My point is simply this: do not set yourself up as an opposing force. Think of it as Newtonian physics: she will only meet you with an opposing and equal force. Act as a conductor: a way to help guide her not by force by a common linkage of energy.

 

[lucky3x]

Mea culpa. It sounded from your post as though the work in question was not something he had to daily anyway, but that he had to do it specifically because it was Sunday. I also second another poster’s suggestion point out that some of the greatest scientists in history have not only Catholics, but priests as well. BTW, does he object to anything specific regarding the notion that Science is compatable with Catholicism, or does he just assume them to be incompatable based on society holding that viewpoint?

Which scientists were priests?

 

[MJJean]

It would have been 30 if he had been allowed to quit going as soon as he said it was boring. At least he had ten years of grace being given to him whether he wanted it or not.

I disagree. The less exposure you have to something as a child, the less likely you are to take it up as a lifestyle when you reach adulthood. And once you have acquired your habits, they are very difficult to change, once you reach adulthood - that’s why we instill good habits in children when they are young, so that it will be second-nature to them when they are adults.

In my husbands case, the parish they attended was pretty…bad. The impression those years left on him was very negative. It’d take a page to fully explain, so you’ll have to just trust me.

My husband found a series of lectures on YouTube while bored link chasing one night. We ended up watching the lecture series and it gave my husband the impression that maybe all parishes and the Catholic Church as a whole weren’t what he had grown up thinking. That maybe faith and Christian mores could be a good thing instead of the negative he’d long thought.

So, he called and emailed a couple Jesuit parishes, met with a priest, had a very long chat, and decided to give it a chance. For him it’s not going back to the religion/faith of his youth. It’s more like finding a different religion/faith that happens to have the same name.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Which scientists were priests?

There have been many. The Vatucan even operates an observatory in Arizona.

We mentioned Father Georges Lamaitre earlier in this thread, the father of the Big Bang theory.

Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître, (French: [ləmɛtʁ] ( listen); 17 July 1894 – 20 June 1966) was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Louvain. He was the first person to propose the theory of the expansion of the Universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble.[1][2] He was also the first to derive what is now known as Hubble’s law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble’s article.[3][4][5][6] Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his ‘hypothesis of the primeval atom’.[7]

I would also point to Father Spitzer’s website and org:

magisreasonfaith.org/

Here is a short list of others.

Many Roman Catholic clerics[1] throughout history have made significant contributions to science. These cleric-scientists include such illustrious names as Nicolaus Copernicus, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaître, Albertus Magnus, Roger Bacon, Pierre Gassendi, Roger Joseph Boscovich, Marin Mersenne, Bernard Bolzano, Francesco Maria Grimaldi, Nicole Oresme, Jean Buridan, Robert Grosseteste, Christopher Clavius, Nicolas Steno, Athanasius Kircher, Giovanni Battista Riccioli, William of Ockham, and others listed below. The Catholic Church has also produced many lay scientists and mathematicians.

The Jesuits in particular have made numerous significant contributions to the development of science. For example, the Jesuits have dedicated significant study to earthquakes, and seismology has been described as “the Jesuit science.”[2][3] The Jesuits have been described as “the single most important contributor to experimental physics in the seventeenth century.”[4] According to Jonathan Wright in his book God’s Soldiers, by the eighteenth century the Jesuits had “contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter’s surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn’s rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light.”[5]

 

[polytropos]

I am 19 years old and reverted to Catholicism from thorough, atheistic materialism less than half a year ago. I also attended a Catholic high school.

My thoughts:

• Calling it a phase or treating it as a phase is, I think, at least counterproductive. I really resented when my parents and grandparents called atheism a phase (even though, it seems, it was), because I was pretty confident that I was right. The other issue at stake is that for many teens, it is not a phase. My parents thought I was going through what they had (as in, as they were growing up, there would be periods where they didn’t go to mass, but they still considered themselves believers), and what I was going through was decidedly not that. I thoroughly did not believe.
• Living out the faith is very important. My parents questioned my atheism, but they did not really live the faith. They did not go to Church every week and justified it by saying that they were “non-practicing Catholics,” but when they did go, they would still receive the Eucharist even though they were definitely not in a state of grace. I was attending Catholic school, so I knew a lot about Catholic morality and knew that all of this was very hypocritical. For many, this case is probably different, but teens are very attentive to these sorts of things. For instance, it also bothered me that my parents would swear at people as they were driving and would always insist that it was the fault of the other driver. This was, it seemed to me, uncharitable and unfair.
• Teenagers often think their knowledge of science outstrips that of their parents. In many cases that is true; it was certainly true of me. So the belief that science and religion are incompatible is, though fallacious, very easy to acquire, especially in our culture. It is probably difficult to dispel, also, if your teen really does know more about science than you do (not implying this is the case). There are a lot of good reading materials on the issue (I think Edward Feser is a very good philosopher who touches upon the issue, and particularly demonstrates that Aristotelian metaphysics are not just compatible with modern science but in many senses necessary, and Aristotelian metaphysics entail Catholicism - PM me about this if you are interested), but getting your teen to read them depends on how receptive she is. Sometimes the problem is not even thinking that one is right, but not caring if one is wrong.
• Acquainting yourself with the arguments for God’s existence could be invaluable. It depends, of course, on how willing your teen is to debate these things, but they probably have misconceptions of the debate. Again, I attended a Catholic high school, so I was familiar with Aquinas’s arguments for God’s existence (although I now realize that the teacher who introduced them to me did not have a full understanding of them, which is probably why I thought I had valid objections to them). My parents, on the other hands, would say things to me like, “Don’t you just feel there is a higher power?” And my answer was, “No, I really don’t.”
• My parents made me go to mass until I was confirmed. After that I stopped going; they occasionally asked me, and I always said no. I don’t know what my position is on whether teens should be required to go. I can’t say whether it would have pushed me away. My parents wanted me to get confirmed because they said I might want to get married in the Church or come back to the Church, but I was just like, “Pfft, suuuure.” I humored them because I really wasn’t an antagonistic teenager, but I don’t think I would have been very receptive to going after I was confirmed.

I don’t know what parts of that applies to your case, but I hope something helps.