Teenager / Steubenville question (Long)

[Spirithound]

This is the kicker for me in the Charismatic movement. I saw this thread after psoting in another forum about Steubenville, what a coincidence lol.

I see the Charismatic movement as self-centered. Christ and the Church gave us the holy mass. He gave us adoration of the holy Eucharist. The charismatic celebrations remind me too much of cults and leave me with a self-centered feeling, utterly contradictory to Catholicism. I’m sure I will be corrected by somebody here

It’s not all self-centred. The Holy Spirit does legitimately bless some people with out-of-the-ordinary gifts. These are sometimes larger than the consolations we may receive in private nighttime or morning prayer, and so there is the chance that we may start to base our faith solely on these sensed signs, but really, the risk is there even in night/morning prayer that we may drop it all at the first sign of desolation.

It all depends on the group, and most especially, the leadership of the group. The faithful must be prepared to not speak in tongues while levitating and receiving stigmata (tongue rather in cheek).

So, to the OP, I can’t defend what was going on because I wasn’t there. It seems extraordinary to me that so many teens would be demonically affected in one gathering. Neither of the Life in the Spirit Seminars I have helped at (as a Core member of my previous parish) were nearly that intense.
That being said, I must affirm that it is possible.
But THAT being said, you have spent much time in prayer, and I will respect and affirm your discernment.
Please, stay present and active and prayerful in your daughter’s formation.
Peace, Love, Virtue

 

[boppaid]

A lot is just teenage emotion. And it doesn’t sound like things were controlled. Thank you for your perspective. none of these children are kids who have addictions or are involved in the occult or things like that. They are all GOOD kids. Very good kids. Wonderful, moral, sensible kids. They are all the kinds of kids that any parent would be proud to have, and would be proud to have as friends for their child. They’re all from the “core” families in our parish and we all socialize outside of church as well. these are genuinely good, Godly kids.

I was a “good Catholic girl” who was involved in the occult. No one realized. It was a very scary time for me. I am still paying for it today. I once played a Ouijia Board at a retreat our Catholic School class took at a Monostary. There were 10 “good Catholic kids” playing in secret that night. Even good kids get led astray.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

I was a “good Catholic girl” who was involved in the occult. No one realized. It was a very scary time for me. I am still paying for it today. I once played a Ouijia Board at a retreat our Catholic School class took at a Monostary. There were 10 “good Catholic kids” playing in secret that night. Even good kids get led astray.

oh good golly, please forgive yourself for doing a ouiji board. it’s a silly parlor trick. It means nothing. All kids do silly things like that. I do not believe in ouiji boards or things that go bump in the night.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

I want to thank everyone for their answers. The thread has gone a bit atray…mostly (the reason I posted this in family life) is that I was looking for guidance as a parent on what would be the proper way to address this and even if I should address it. Having established that Steubenville is ok, yet charismatic, I can understand that these things happen. I’m not here to bash Steubenville. Like I’ve said, if I decide that it’s not something I want my daughter involved in, then that will be the end of it. End of story.

Rusty - if you’d like to pm me about your other post that would be nice. I still need to hear what other parents feel about the whole program.

spirithound:

So, to the OP, I can’t defend what was going on because I wasn’t there. It seems extraordinary to me that so many teens would be demonically affected in one gathering. Neither of the Life in the Spirit Seminars I have helped at (as a Core member of my previous parish) were nearly that intense.
That being said, I must affirm that it is possible.
But THAT being said, you have spent much time in prayer, and I will respect and affirm your discernment.

yes, that sounds very much where I’m at. I don’t want to say NO it’s not possible that these things were by the Spirit or by Satan. I’m not that shortsighted. But on the other hand I don’t want to say “ok yep, that’s what it was” without exploring the possibility that it was nothing more than a bit of mass hysteria coupled with extreme heat, dehydration, and long periods of kneeling.

The other thing that my dh mentioned today - how did they know that none of these kids needed medical attention? That made me curious and is something I need to find out.

 

[BlessedMomof2]

Or maybe because I was (and still am) very self-conscious and yet I was jumping up and down and screaming and doing the hand motions to Protestant rock music. I was around 300 pounds back then and I did everything I could to not draw attention to myself and my fatness, except when I was there.

I’m sure it was all ok. Please don’t be shamed. My daughter likes the music too. I know it’s “Protestant” but it’s not evil. I don’t want to get into that debate. That’s for another forum.

However, like you, I wonder why my daughter was so hysterical yesterday and why she was so horrified that we were questioning it. I kept thinking that if this was all from God, why wouldn’t she feel elated?

 

[boppaid]

oh good golly, please forgive yourself for doing a ouiji board. it’s a silly parlor trick. It means nothing. All kids do silly things like that. I do not believe in ouiji boards or things that go bump in the night.

Well, I got caught up in it, and it was very real and scary. It was no parlor trick when we did it… I can tell you that. I have met with my priest about it several times. You cannot imagine all the stuff I witnessed. Very scary.

 

[agapewolf]

The Steubs I have been involved in have always had at least 2 nurses present, and an infirmary set up with cots, water, meds, fans, etc. This past time we had kids allergic to incense. Any time we have kids overly emotional, we bring them there to make sure they are calmed down…make sure its not asthma, etc.

Ouijja board is bad bad bad stuff. IT IS of the occult. That is how satan gets in…by trickery to think its just a game.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Your line “How she didn’t want the priest to come near her with the host.” is VERY disturbing to me. I would question this event severely.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

I would also avoid it like the plague. The fact that she got defensive like someone in a cult should also raise warning flags.

Course, I distrust the Charismatic community for a number of reasons, with the aherm “speaking in tongues” quality being in the forefront of my mind.

Aren’t there any nice EF parishes in your neighborhood? ^^

 

[lotusblossom]

BlessedMomof2,

Your questions really hit a part of me that I wanted to share. First off, I’d say, what your daughter experienced seems pretty accurate to what I’ve experienced at Steubenville conferences. It can be very confusing, especially if you’re not used to the charismatic side of Catholicism, and I believe they should have spiritually-trained chaperones and at least one priest per group if possible. What happened there, I have no clue since I wasn’t there and who really does know except those particular people. You are probably accurate with guessing what happened to your own daughter since she is your daughter .

I am a Steubenville grad and what got me there was those conferences. My first one was an experience. I was not totally unfamiliar with the charismatic renewal since my parents were involved quite a lot in it when I was young. I was told I asked to be baptized by the Holy Spirit when I was 2. BUT I hadn’t been totally immersed in it ever, so the enthusiasm was intoxicating and scary at the same time. I loved the music, the rejoicing, the ability to express my faith in different ways (I believe there’s a time for the excitement and a time for definite solemn worship). Adoration was AMAZING! I felt very close to Christ at the time. I experienced amazing depth of prayer. I finally let my guard down and was able to admit where I was sinning in my life (during a rebellious time in my teen years). There was laughing, crying, screaming, people being slain in the Spirit, and lots of singing and praying around me. I was aware of it, but very much as background noise. After Adoration, our chaperones and our priests prayed over us. I was slain in the Spirit for the first time in my life. It was beautiful. That night, I had the WORST spiritual attack I’ve ever experienced in my life! I had been scared of the dark for a while due to a really horrible experience earlier that year that I won’t go into. And my roommates needed dark to sleep. I held tight to my rosary and prayed the St. Michael prayer over and over and over, crying the whole time, before (what felt like forever) I fell asleep. But to me, it was confirmation that the Lord was really working in me and that Satan was fighting. I grew to really appreciate Christ in the Eucharist and Adoration (I LOVE being in the presence of the Eucharist SO much now!) Plus, I talked to the priests about my fear of the dark and all that went with it later in the trip and they talked to me and prayed with me and it helped immensely (one wrote his dissertation on angels).

I also felt a possible calling to the religious life. My friend who invited me on this trip (and the only one I really knew in our group) told me that God was definitely calling me to be a nun. And that scared me a lot. I cried about that too. Then, I called my mom and she told me to let it go - that just because I felt that didn’t mean it was true and didn’t mean I had to worry about it then. Mothers know best .

The next year it wasn’t so “spectacular” but it could have been the dynamic, the teens, or the fact that it wasn’t “new” to me. Either way, I’m sorry your daughter felt scared. I’m no spiritual expert, so I have no advice to give - just my experience.

I spent my four years at college at Steubenville and it’s not as charismatic as the conferences tend to be - it’s there but it’s not “forced” so much - you have the ability to not be a part of it. But Steubenville itself is orthodox and what they can control is as well.

 

[sanctamaria17]

A lot of spiritual things can be scary, even if good, simply because God is more than we can comprehend and our mortal minds and bodies can’t comprehend it. Also, I do think that when we open up to God more, the devil fights even harder to turn us away from Him. So it is entirely possibly to suffer spiritual/demonic attacks when we get even closer to God. A lot of the saints did.

Funny, a good friend and I were talking about these today. I do agree, there should always be trained spiritual people as well as nurses, because that is some pretty big stuff. Also, teens can be into anything, including the good Catholic ones. We’re all sinful and rebellious to some degree, it could be a very intense purification for some, which could account for some kids’ overwhelming experiences.

Ouija is dangerous. Every person I know who’s messed around with it said there was something evil, “weird” or “funny” about it, Christian or not. God told us not to contact the dead, so if there are spirits contacted, they’re most likely not angels, saints, loved ones, people in Purgatory. People I know thought it was fun and games, then they actually played it. One of my Catholic friends was encouraged by her mom to play it when she was little, her mom even offered to play with her. Even at that young age, she refused. She knew that there was something grievously wrong and to this day is frightened by it.

 

[agapewolf]

Your line “How she didn’t want the priest to come near her with the host.” is VERY disturbing to me. I would question this event severely.

This has nothing to do with the event. There is a Eucharistic procession…the fact that the teen doesnt want to be near it makes the issue with the teen in some way (not judging, but something spiritual going on)…NOT the event.

 

[GraceDK]

However, like you, I wonder why my daughter was so hysterical yesterday and why she was so horrified that we were questioning it. I kept thinking that if this was all from God, why wouldn’t she feel elated?

Maybe because it was something different from anything she had ever experienced before.
I have a friend who reveived the gifts of tongues some 20 years ago. He was sooo happy, until some traditionalist Christian told him that he was probably only hysteric or even possessed. My friend stopped practicing his gift from that moment.

Thank God later he found other people who were familiar with the Charismatic gifts… then he was not ashamed anymore and he started using the gifts the Holy Spirit had given him, and he benefitted himself and his congregation through them.

Honestly many Catholic children are afraid of things charismatic because they have picked up the wipe from older catholics that charismatic stuff is not appropriate to a good Catholic behaviour. Like people even on EWTN say that tongues is mostly a product of the imagination… its said that charismatics are self centred and become more protestant (oh MY). With all this in the air how could your daughter not be effected…
I have met Catholic young people before who felt alone and misplaced by other Catholics that simply did not understand them and who made them feel strange or wrong for practising the gifts that are so vividly described throughout the New Testament.
I find that rather sad.
In fact charismatic gifts should be a sign following every Christian according to the words of Jesus before He ascended.

 

[dconklin]

BlessedMom I am praying for you. The devil is out there! The devil hates Jesus and he hates anyone that that worships him. Adoration is one of the most sacred ways to be with the Lord and worship him. The devil is always there. Any doubt is from him. Any fear is from him. Anything to get someone to stop worshiping and deny God is from the devil.

I am a Steubenville alum. Before I went there I was familular with the charasmatic movement through my parents. For a while I was reluctant to raise my hands in prayer and praise becuase I was worried someone would see me. That was stupid because everyone else in the sanctuary was doing it. It was definately the devil.

I am a DRE and YM now. Our first of two confirmation retreats has a powerful guided meditation that is an examination of conscience and your relationship with Jesus. The lights are off, candels are lit and a lector with an amazing voice and inflection leads it. Every year we have a large group of sobbing teens. Then we have a group of doubting (and upset) parents. The teens were sobbing because they got it and opened up to Jesus. The parents were upset becuase it was foreign and they thought we were tormenting their kids. We let the parents read the reflection. Then we get a bunch of “ohs”. They then get it - a little.

Oh, and the ouiji board is the real deal. If you ever get the chance, talk to a priest that has whitnessed an exorcisim. Our former Bishop has and the stories he tells are very chilling.

Please don’t be a doubting hinderance to the Holy Spirit.

PAX

 

[GraceDK]

BlessedMom I am praying for you. The devil is out there! The devil hates Jesus and he hates anyone that that worships him. Adoration is one of the most sacred ways to be with the Lord and worship him. The devil is always there. Any doubt is from him. Any fear is from him. Anything to get someone to stop worshiping and deny God is from the devil.

I am a Steubenville alum. Before I went there I was familular with the charasmatic movement through my parents. For a while I was reluctant to raise my hands in prayer and praise becuase I was worried someone would see me. That was stupid because everyone else in the sanctuary was doing it. It was definately the devil.

I am a DRE and YM now. Our first of two confirmation retreats has a powerful guided meditation that is an examination of conscience and your relationship with Jesus. The lights are off, candels are lit and a lector with an amazing voice and inflection leads it. Every year we have a large group of sobbing teens. Then we have a group of doubting (and upset) parents. The teens were sobbing because they got it and opened up to Jesus. The parents were upset becuase it was foreign and they thought we were tormenting their kids. We let the parents read the reflection. Then we get a bunch of “ohs”. They then get it - a little.

Oh, and the ouiji board is the real deal. If you ever get the chance, talk to a priest that has whitnessed an exorcisim. Our former Bishop has and the stories he tells are very chilling.

Please don’t be a doubting hinderance to the Holy Spirit.

PAX

Dave! I sure wish I was a teen at one of your retreats Unfortunately I have never witnessed a teenager weep in contrition and realisation of Christ inside a Catholic Church. I believe we need people like you who can really get the children to open up. When the Holy Spirit touches people its always orderly… but maybe not in the ways that we want.
I have a pentecostal pastor who sometimes say: “We are not here to have proper meetings” he has the gift of prophesy and healing and when he preaches people get touched in their soul so that they fall to their knees litterally where they stand.
I have a secret wish of meeting someone like him among Catholic priests one day…
for the same reason I yearn for the day where I get to go to Steubenville, because I have heard that the power of the Holy Spirit is allowed there and I so miss to experience it in my own Church in stead of among the Evangelicals… **

 

[BlessedMomof2]

Ok this is exactly my problem.

You are all basically saying that it’s ok for other adults to tell my child that THEY are correct and her parents are wrong. That’s not appropriate in my opinion and that’s my biggest problem.

 

[theresa_bloom]

Children, (and that’s what they are) are very impressionable. I think the leaders of the retreat should be VERY careful about this. If the children were led to believe that they may have these experiences then they may have fulfilled the prophesy on their own accord. Whether or not these experiences were “real” is not for us to know. What you can discern is how the experience changed or effected the lives of those in attendance. Do you see a real and substantial change in the “fruits” of these kids? If not, it was probably just the “emotion” of the moment. If they were good kids to begin with then you would expect them to continue or even grow deeper in their spiritual life. If they were on the wrong path, then you expect to see them changing course. Wait it out and see. My daughter had a similar experience at Steubenville and I explained it in that way. Just wait to see if this was fleeting or a substantial and real life changing experience.

 

[theresa_bloom]

BlessedMom I am praying for you. The devil is out there! The devil hates Jesus and he hates anyone that that worships him. Adoration is one of the most sacred ways to be with the Lord and worship him. The devil is always there. Any doubt is from him. Any fear is from him. Anything to get someone to stop worshiping and deny God is from the devil.

I am a Steubenville alum. Before I went there I was familular with the charasmatic movement through my parents. For a while I was reluctant to raise my hands in prayer and praise becuase I was worried someone would see me. That was stupid because everyone else in the sanctuary was doing it. It was definately the devil.

I am a DRE and YM now. Our first of two confirmation retreats has a powerful guided meditation that is an examination of conscience and your relationship with Jesus. The lights are off, candels are lit and a lector with an amazing voice and inflection leads it. Every year we have a large group of sobbing teens. Then we have a group of doubting (and upset) parents. The teens were sobbing because they got it and opened up to Jesus. The parents were upset becuase it was foreign and they thought we were tormenting their kids. We let the parents read the reflection. Then we get a bunch of “ohs”. They then get it - a little.

Oh, and the ouiji board is the real deal. If you ever get the chance, talk to a priest that has whitnessed an exorcisim. Our former Bishop has and the stories he tells are very chilling.

Please don’t be a doubting hinderance to the Holy Spirit.

PAX

I have no doubt in the power of the holy spirit or the existence of evil. I have some concerns with youth being led and spiritually schooled by parents who themselves may be at the beginning of their spirtual journey. Also the holy spirit does not always present itself with the unabashed emotion that is being described here. My advice to my own children: Stay close the the Lord, walk in the ways of Jesus, avoid evil things, places and people, and pray for the holy spirit to direct your life.

 

[maria29]

Here is my advice to the op as someone who has worked for the youth conferences at Steubenville. First i think many kids get caught up in the emotion of it because its a long weekend with kids staying up late, not drinking enough water etc. (which is the chaperones fault not Stuebenville’s) Second is that here is a large group of kids praying, coming to see the Lord in a whole new light and of course they are spiritual attacks. I hate to phrase it this way and perhaps someone else can put it better. The devil sees so many souls that perhaps he had at one point and knows he’s losing them, Don’t you think he’s going to fight for them? But what an awesome testimony to God that good overcomes evil.

Franciscan has lost most of its charismatic on campus feel. It’s an extremely orthodox university, one of the first requiring all professors to take the mandatum (sp?). I would never question whether they were Catholic enough.

 

[tiggeriffic]

This thread is already very long with lots of opinions being posted. I do not have time right now to read all of them so I hope this is not too much of a repeat.

As a parish Coordinator of Youth Ministry, I do not support Steubenville. I find their practices to be just as you described - emotion based on exhaustion. They keep the kids going all day (often in summer - in the heat described) and they are just worn out. Then when they do Adoration the kids start to feel the effects on their body from the exhaustion and become emotional which can intensify the issues and the whole things compounds.

I think there are much healthier opportunities for teens. Most Dioceses have Youth Conventions or Rallys. There is also the National Catholic Youth Conference that is every other year. They are great options for young people.

At this point, I guess the question would be - what do you hope to accomplish by talking to the chaperones? If you think it would help future groups then sure, do it.