Teenager / Steubenville question (Long)

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**I’m not Charismatic at all and in fact have never wanted any of the gifts… **
Oh my…

You don’t WANT the gifts? I thought you would want to do the will of God… But how can you say no if the Lord Jesus wants to baptize you in the Holy Spirit?

You dont wanna be like Jesus, Peter and Paul, John and all the other disciples? You are right… people thought they were lunatics and drunkards… but the pentecost gave them the power from on high that Jesus demanded them to wait for, because without it they could not evangelize like they ought.

Which ones of the gifts dont you want?

You dont want the gift of healing so you may bring healing to the lepers, the paralytics, the blind, the depressed??? You want to rather stand face to face with the afflicted and be helpless? You think thats the true humility that Christ wants from us?

You dont want the gift of tongues so that you “can speak secrets with the Lord” and “edify your self” so that you may edify your congregation??? Paul said he was happy that he spoke in tongues more than any other he knew… but you dont WANT to.

You dont want the gift of prophesy so you can speak wisdom to this generation of dead bones, so you can give words of light directly into people’s situations and circumstances “as a sign for the unbeliever”?
You don’t want to strive for this gift that Paul told you to strive for?

I have said nothing in these examples that are not quotes from the NT. And you may think its pious and humble to blend in with the world… but that is not what you were called to do.

What is wrong with this generation of Catholics?
 
Oh my…

You don’t WANT the gifts? I thought you would want to do the will of God… But how can you say no if the Lord Jesus wants to baptize you in the Holy Spirit?

You dont wanna be like Jesus, Peter and Paul, John and all the other disciples? You are right… people thought they were lunatics and drunkards… but the pentecost gave them the power from on high that Jesus demanded them to wait for, because without it they could not evangelize like they ought.

Which ones of the gifts dont you want?

You dont want the gift of healing so you may bring healing to the lepers, the paralytics, the blind, the depressed??? You want to rather stand face to face with the afflicted and be helpless? You think thats the true humility that Christ wants from us?

You dont want the gift of tongues so that you “can speak secrets with the Lord” and “edify your self” so that you may edify your congregation??? Paul said he was happy that he spoke in tongues more than any other he knew… but you dont WANT to.

You dont want the gift of prophesy so you can speak wisdom to this generation of dead bones, so you can give words of light directly into people’s situations and circumstances “as a sign for the unbeliever”?
You don’t want to strive for this gift that Paul told you to strive for?

I have said nothing in these examples that are not quotes from the NT. And you may think its pious and humble to blend in with the world… but that is not what you were called to do.

What is wrong with this generation of Catholics?
I got the gift I prayed for. Not everyone is called to those gifts nor does it make one less Catholic to not want them. I went through a whole prayer group that lasted 5 months at Franciscan that helped be open to gifts. I discerned that I wasn’t meant for them except I asked for one gift which I did recieve. That was to learn how to forgive.and move on from an unspeakable act that was done to me.
 
If what happens at Steubenville during adoration is perfectly normal, why does it never happen at adoration at my parish?
 
If what happens at Steubenville during adoration is perfectly normal, why does it never happen at adoration at my parish?
That’s what I have been wondering. While I’m sure some of it is legitimate, a lot of this charismatic movement worries me. It just seems un-Catholic and kind of creeps me out with some of the stuff I hear.
 
That’s what I have been wondering. While I’m sure some of it is legitimate, a lot of this charismatic movement worries me. It just seems un-Catholic and kind of creeps me out with some of the stuff I hear.
I don’t think it’s the Holy Spirit so much as indirect peer pressure. There’s always a large number of Steubenville veterans who are already “in the spirit” by the first assembly, so the first-timers are easily sucked in. It’s funny how someone always seems to leak the details of the chaperon-only meeting wherein they tell the chaperons what to expect at adoration.
 
If what happens at Steubenville during adoration is perfectly normal, why does it never happen at adoration at my parish?
Maybe because you come with little or no expectation that God the Holy Spirit is going to touch you or the others in the assembly?
I have often asked my self why it is that I witness with my own eyes how people are healed from sicknesses and disabilities and get real prphetic words on normal well ordered sunday services in certain congregations but I very rarely witness these things in Catholic Churches.
All I can say is that God has no favourites but He is a gentleman and He cant work where there is no faith nor expectation for great things to happen in His Name.

Jesus said:" …these signs shall follow those who believe in me… as a confirmation"…
But many Catholics have stiffled in theological systems, fear and rationality which is the sickness of the Church today.
 
Maybe because you come with little or no expectation that God the Holy Spirit is going to touch you or the others in the assembly?
I have often asked my self why it is that I witness with my own eyes how people are healed from sicknesses and disabilities and get real prphetic words on normal well ordered sunday services in certain congregations but I very rarely witness these things in Catholic Churches.
All I can say is that God has no favourites but He is a gentleman and He cant work where there is no faith nor expectation for great things to happen in His Name.

Jesus said:" …these signs shall follow those who believe in me… as a confirmation"…
But many Catholics have stiffled in theological systems, fear and rationality which is the sickness of the Church today.
That isn’t a very good answer. If it doesn’t happen to us it must mean that our faith isn’t strong enough? It’s bound to happen at any church and especially in seminaries if what you say is true (which it isn’t).
 
I have often asked my self why it is that I witness with my own eyes how people are healed from sicknesses and disabilities and get real prphetic words on normal well ordered sunday services in certain congregations but I very rarely witness these things in Catholic Churches.
I’m not so sure about that. One of the things that sets Catholics apart from the rest is that these other places with “real prophetic words” are almost completely emotionally driven. Jesus never said that worshiping Him is supposed to be fun and get your emotions riled up and cause you to do weird stuff, like these “healers” and “preachers” do.

And when you’re all hyped up on emotion, your judgment and perception can really be fooled into believing anything.
 
Maybe because you come with little or no expectation that God the Holy Spirit is going to touch you or the others in the assembly?
I have often asked my self why it is that I witness with my own eyes how people are healed from sicknesses and disabilities and get real prphetic words on normal well ordered sunday services in certain congregations but I very rarely witness these things in Catholic Churches.
All I can say is that God has no favourites but He is a gentleman and He cant work where there is no faith nor expectation for great things to happen in His Name.

Jesus said:" …these signs shall follow those who believe in me… as a confirmation"…
But many Catholics have stiffled in theological systems, fear and rationality which is the sickness of the Church today.
Gosh, if expectation and large amounts faith was all that was required for healing and miracles than no child, sick and dying in a hospital would ever die.

Personally, I don’t think there is anything wrong with the church today. I think it’s doing just fine and dandy.
 
God can and will do anything to anyone at anytime.

Not too many churches have a day full of fantastic speakers that are alive with and led by the Spirit before exposition. At my church we do not play awesome spirit-moving music and hymns before our monthly (yeah, kinda lame) Euch Adoration. Put all of those things together in the right way at the right time, the Spirit will definitely move.

Anyone experience a Life in the Spirit Seminar? Another awesome experience. I do not believe it is mentioned in the Catechism, but everything discussed is very Catholic. How about a Festival of Praise? Again, not done at every church - but everything is Catholic.

Sure, when kids are involved it is important to take extra care and it seems the YM did this. Steubenville has the lion’s share of the top theologians. They are always over at the Vatican, presenting things to the Cardinals and the Pope.

The Catholic Church today is nowhere near where it could/should be. The number of non-practicing Catholics is obscene. The number of people out there that were not taught the Catechism correctly is huge. I see this on a daily basis.

Miracles do go on every day - many officially recognized by the church. God uses them when he needs to.
 
If what happens at Steubenville during adoration is perfectly normal, why does it never happen at adoration at my parish?
Because private adoration time is what it is… time for contemplative prayer, listening, private devotions.

In community adoration such as Steub, they have music, they have an atmosphere provided, they have a talk pointing them for a focus on Adoration, they call upon the holy spirit as a communtiy, and are surrendering their lives to GOd, sometimes for the first time ever.

That’s why.

When I have a similar community adoration at my parish with music and a talk, the Holy SPirit has made some obvious appearances too.
 
I’m not so sure about that. One of the things that sets Catholics apart from the rest is that these other places with “real prophetic words” are almost completely emotionally driven. Jesus never said that worshiping Him is supposed to be fun and get your emotions riled up and cause you to do weird stuff, like these “healers” and “preachers” do.

And when you’re all hyped up on emotion, your judgment and perception can really be fooled into believing anything.
Well, I am not talking about Benny Hinn meetings or meetings of some passing by preacher who can afford to say anything in a moment of emotion…

I am talking about congregations that are orderly, structured and working. Congregations that I have attended over a long time where I heard great preaching, heard prophetic words that were amazing and which would not fit anyone but that one person in the assembly that it was given to, and I have seen miracles take place in front of my eyes. These things were treated like they should: as a normal part of Christian life in a congregation that follows the disciples’ example.

I have seen these things among Catholics too, but always on the outskirts so to speak… as some intrusive element or odd sprituality… and I am sorry, but treating the gifts of the Holy Spirit as intruders is unbiblical.

Since the beginning people have accused the followers of Christ of being hysterical, mentally out of balance, hypnotized, possessed, dehydrated etc… etc…

Ask your self if we live like the Acts of the Apostles and the Paulin epistles hold up as an example… and if not, then why not?
 
Personally, I don’t think there is anything wrong with the church today. I think it’s doing just fine and dandy.
The Church is in ruins. Its torn by division, dryness, lack of faith and zeal, lack of vocations, lack of good preaching, infiltrated by rationalism and systematization of mysteries, scandals, fear, brother against brother, bishop against bishop…
And Jesus said: “But when I return, will I find any faith left on the earth?”.

Open your eyes.
 
No, the Church is not in ruins because Jesus promised that “gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” She isn’t in ruins because Her Spouse is Jesus and He’d never abandon His Bride.

Yes, the Church is struggling because we’re all human and thus prone to sin and failure. At the same time, there are those of us out there working to fix it and learning to be open to God.

Not everyone is called to be charismatic. I’ve been to my share of charismatic services, Catholic and non-Catholic (really, not specifically Catholic, but interdenominational that includes Catholics). It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. And emotion can get out of control, especially with young teens, especially in the heat and especially when you haven’t slept, drank water, etc.

It is absolutely right for a mother to be discerning and questioning of things like these. Regardless of what really happened, it’s still unknown territory for a lot of Catholics. And teens are very impressionable.
 
So apparently the ills of the church can be remedied by heavy doses of rock music and someone shouting Jesus over and over again into a microphone during Mass and adoration. Someone inform the pope.
 
**sanctamaria: No, the Church is not in ruins because Jesus promised that “gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” She isn’t in ruins because Her Spouse is Jesus and He’d never abandon His Bride. **

You are right… He does not abandon, because whereas we are not faithful He is ever faithful. So it was with the first chosen people, Israel… read Hoseas book to see how The Lord’s Bride fornicated with other gods and forgot her first love… but He finally took her out into the dry desert to remind her of Him and how everything passes away except from Him and His love…
Do you think the Church can follow Christ and not die to self, be crucified and resurrect?

**Yes, the Church is struggling because we’re all human and thus prone to sin and failure. At the same time, there are those of us out there working to fix it and learning to be open to God. **

Good for you. I respect you for it. But in order to fix something you have to first be open to the fact that things need fixing.

Not everyone is called to be charismatic. I’ve been to my share of charismatic services, Catholic and non-Catholic (really, not specifically Catholic, but interdenominational that includes Catholics). It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. And emotion can get out of control, especially with young teens, especially in the heat and especially when you haven’t slept, drank water, etc.

Depends on what you mean by Charismatic. When Jesus send out his apostles and disciples there was not a crowd of them that were exempt from the signs He said should follow and confirm the words of His followers. And when the tongues of fire fell at Pentecost there was not a few people sitting outside doing their own little thing because they did not like the “power from on high” and the tongues and the miracles…

It is absolutely right for a mother to be discerning and questioning of things like these. Regardless of what really happened, it’s still unknown territory for a lot of Catholics. And teens are very impressionable.

Unknown territory yes… and thats exactly why many also fell insecure. But it does not mean that they are always right. The fist time I was in an assembly of people speaking in tongues I thought they were ridiculous and weird and I felt outside and did not want to be there. It took me a long time to relax and put my arms in the air because I had been told it was a sign of emotionalism and that I should show no emotion.
But I am happy I now feel most at home where people act like King David dancing infront of the Arch of the Covenant. His wife told him he was embarrasing himself… but she was wrong.
 
Greetings in Christ. My name is John Beaulieu and I am the Director of Youth Outreach for Franciscan University. In short, I am the person in charge of the programmatic aspects of the youth conferences co-sponsored by Franciscan University across the United States and Canada each summer.

I wanted to clarify what the pastoral guidelines and spirituality of the conferences are in order to help everyone understand better what our mission is and our goals are for our events.

First, though, I want to apologize for any confusion or fear that participating in our conferences has caused. Each summer, over 38,000 teens and their sponsors attend one of our 19 conferences and for the vast, vast majority of participants, the experience is one of faith awakening, conversion, and a deeper desire to love and serve the Church.

Unfortunately, that is not always the case. Most of the time when things do get out of hand or seem to cross the line from credible to over the top, it stems from unrealistic or overly hyped expectations placed on the teens from adult sponsors who tell them that the Adoration they experience at our conferences will be the greatest moment of their lives. I have overheard (and taken time to correct) chaperones who equate emotion with a spiritual response and wrongly push their teens to have an “emotional” experience.

I want everyone who has read or responded to the original post to understand that as a veteran with 20 years of youth ministry experience, as the director of the youth conference office for the past 5 years, and as a father of 5 (with a teen who attended his first conference this past summer), I would never tell a teen I was serving to prepare to have the most emotionally profound faith experience during Adoration. All you do is set the bar so high that the average teen (already quite emotional) will literally work themselves into an emotional frenzy trying to get there. And you set them up for defeat when they go back to their home parish and complain Adoration is boring because they didn’t “feel” anything.

With that being said, the official mission of the Franciscan University summer conferences is to bring young Catholics into a life-changing relationship with Christ through evangelistic preaching and the Sacraments of the Church. Our goal is to evangelize, to help each young person come to know the personal love of Christ as revealed on the cross and then get them connected to Jesus through Confession, the Holy Mass, and Adoration. I want to state this clearly because nowhere in our mission statement, or in my personal desire for that matter, is an agenda that could be described as “charismatic”.

That is not to deny or downplay the role the Holy Spirit and even the Charismatic Renewal in the 70s played in helping to form all that is good about Franciscan University and our summer conferences. But is not a main or even a secondary goal of the youth conferences to get teens to speak in tongues.

We call upon the Holy Spirit to empower the young people to be living witnesses of the gospel, to help transform them into the image of Jesus Christ. We ask the Holy Spirit to pour out gifts on the young people, but we focus on the gifts of faith, hope, and charity. We also focus on the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. We verbally pray out loud in front of the young people, “Come, Holy Spirit.” I guess this is where some of the “danger” lies.

To pray, “Come, Holy Spirit” is to step out in faith and, most of the time, out of control. We do control the Holy Spirit. He should be moving in us and motivating US. We do not have control over the gifts God will bring when we ask Him to come. Some teens probably do receive the gift of tongues. Some probably do receive healing. But most of the time what teens receive is hope and a personal understanding that they are loved by the God of the Universe. And that is enough for them to keep walking. When teens encounter God and His infinite love, sometimes they have no words to express what is happening. Tears are the only response they can muster.

Be assured, none of the priests or hosts that help pastor these weekends encourage, manipulate or direct the teens to an emotional point. If anything, when these things happen, they try to take the young people back to a place of peace. This, as you can imagine is difficult when you have thousands of teens in one place. It is even more difficult if the sponsors and chaperones with the group are not taking control and actually pastoring their own teens.

Some of you may be wondering why we would call upon the Holy Spirit to come and bring His gifts if we were not on some level “Charismatic”. Well, simply put, the Church needs the Power of the Holy Spirit, young people need the Holy Spirit. It is no coincidence that the theme for Franciscan University’s summer conferences in 2008 was “Witness” and that the scripture was Acts 1:8. (I’ll let you look it up). This was the theme Scripture for World Youth Day as chosen by Pope Benedict XVI. In his message to the youth he stated,

“We are the fruits of this mission of the Church through the working of the Holy Spirit. We carry within us the seal of the Father’s love in Jesus Christ which is the Holy Spirit. Let us never forget this, because the Spirit of the Lord always remembers every individual, and wishes, particularly through you young people, to stir up the wind and fire of a new Pentecost in the world”. (Message for WYD, 2008)

We call upon the Holy Spirit NOT to create a movement within the Church. Rather, we are calling upon the Holy Spirit in order to give Him greater permission to work within our own hearts and within the Church.

I also have concerns about a chaperone who sees a teen screaming and would automatically assume it was demonic. It could be heat, dehydration, or simply a very broken and hurting young man. There is no doubt that Satan has this generation in His wicked cross hairs and he is hungry for young souls. But to make that sort of proclamation to young people without any sure sense is at best imprudent and at worse destructive.

As for other manifestations of the Holy Spirit, I think the best advice you can give a young person is if you desire a certain gift of the Holy Spirit or manifestation of the Holy Spirit MORE than a life of love and holiness and the personal consolation of the Holy Spirit, than your desires are skewed. When we get kids focused on an experience of a certain kind rather than on giving themselves more completely to Christ, then sometimes they will even fake it to either get attention or to “look holy” for their friends. Once again, these issues go beyond the weekend and back to the youth ministry environment that is discipling them long-term.

I wonder if the chaperones in question attended the session for sponsors where we discuss the evening sessions and their role in keeping the peace, and keeping the teens as calm as possible. Once again, I believe emotion can be the beautiful by-product of an encounter with God but can do more harm then good if they are being used to get teens to encounter God.

As for your own daughter, BlessedMomof2, keep listening to her and loving her through this. Pray with her. Let her know that not everything she saw or experienced at the conference during Adoration was necessarily God. But also assure her it wasn’t necessarily the devil. Let her know that the exact same Jesus, with the music and the procession, that she encountered at the Steubenville conference is the exact same Jesus that quietly waits for her in the tabernacle of your Church. Take her there so you and her can experience Christ together.

Please be assured of our ongoing prayers for all youth and youth ministers and especially the parents. If you want I can be contacted personally through the University or through the youth conference website. That address is www.franciscanyouth.com.

I do apologize to all for a longer response to a long post.

Peace and blessings to all.

John

Originally Posted by BlessedMomof2 View Post

So, here are my questions:
  1. Steubenville - I guess I should have googled more before I let her go, they are charismatic, but are they “wrong”? Are they violating anything in our Church?
  2. should I have a discussion with the leaders and possibly bring in our parish priest?
  3. what documentation do I have to prove that this was wrong - and was it wrong? I know it doesn’t feel right. I prayed last night and every answer I got was that it wasn’t right. I kept getting more and more reasons in my head over and over why it wasn’t right. And I was led here to ask more I think.
So anyone have words of wisdom for me? I’m sorry this was so long. I’m not trying to debate the whole charismatic movement here. That’s not my intent. My intent is to make sure that my child is ok, that she is not afraid of God and that she is not being led down the wrong path.
 
I have found a very helpful article addressing charismatic renewal.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/charismatic_renewal.htm

I will be printing it and showing my daughter and then discussing it with her and possibly her leaders. It makes a very good case for why discernment is the most important thing we can do. I read it and find it’s one of the most non-biased articles I’ve seen. It present both sides equally well.
Thus the Church on the one hand recognizes that the Holy Spirit moves where He will, and so she does not want to oppose His working, and on the other, that the Church must discern the authenticity of each charism, lest it be a deception of the evil one. For this reason to say that the Charismatic Renewal is approved by the Church is not a blanket approval of every alleged charismatic gift or every charismatic group or individual within the Church. The discernment of the Holy Spirit’s action is an ongoing necessity within the Church and within the Charismatic Renewal.
 
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