Teenagers and Church Music

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Boldface mine–funny, I don’t get this impression at all from the music at our parish’s Life Teen Mass. In fact, it is this music more than any other that causes me to recall with great remorse and grief the terrible death of our Lord on the cross, and I am moved to tears.

It’s all personal preference! There is no such thing as innately “holy” music. Case in Point: at work (microbiology lab), we sing a ditty set to the tune of Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus, surely some of the best music ever written–but we substitute the word “Gonorrhea” for “Hallelujah.” Bang–there goes the “sacredness” of the melody!

Also, how many Protestant mega-Church celebrations have you attended? There is a huge difference between the music at Life Teen Masses, and the music at a Protestant megachurch.

Finally, Life Teen Masses and the music settings and hymns done at these Masses have the approval of the local Bishops. Those who say that the music is somehow lacking at LifeTeen are implying that the Bishop is missing something. I frankly don’t have the gall to make such a claim against an apostle of the Lord Jesus.
However, not all of the music at these Teen Masses passes muster, according to Musicam Sacram, Pope John Paul’s Chirograph on Sacred Music and Sacramentum Caritatis.

For the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist, the Bishops were asked by the Holy See to answer a survey wherein they listed some of the “shadows” (bad things) that plagued the Mass. One such shadow was highlighted by a great deal of prelates:
In other responses some lamented the poor quality of translations of liturgical texts and many musical texts in current languages, maintaining that they lacked beauty and were sometimes theologically unclear, thereby contributing to a weakening of Church teaching and to a misunderstanding of prayer. A*** few responses made particular mention of music and singing at Youth Masses. In this regard, it is important to avoid musical forms which, because of their profane use, are not conducive to prayer. Some responses note a certain eagerness in composing new songs, to the point of almost yielding to a consumer mentality, showing little concern for the quality of the music and text, and easily overlooking the artistic patrimony which has been theologically and musically effective in the Church’s liturgy.***
This issue was certainly addressed by the Fathers of the Synod on the Eucharist. This resulted in its inclusion in Sacramentum Caritas, which was written by Pope Benedict XVI.

Furthermore, just because these Protestant Praise and Worship songs appear in books printed by OCP doesn’t necessarily mean that they have the ecclesial stamp of approval. OCP, the main purveyor and promoter of music used at these teen Masses, does not have any ecclesial authority. Many of the songs this publishing house spews out tend to run contrary to Catholic teaching. One in particular, Danos Un Corazon (formerly, Hombres Nuevos) is a thinly veiled anthem on liberation theology. Others emphasize the community (horizontal) more than the adoration and worshp of God (vertical).

You can’t take these songs at face value. They must be measured against the documents that the Holy See has issued.
 
It’s all personal preference! There is no such thing as innately “holy” music. Case in Point: at work (microbiology lab), we sing a ditty set to the tune of Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus, surely some of the best music ever written–but we substitute the word “Gonorrhea” for “Hallelujah.” Bang–there goes the “sacredness” of the melody!
Which is why sacredness must be present in both the form and the words. And the Church says it is not personal preference, and that there is such a thing as sacred music and profane music.
Life Teen Masses and the music settings and hymns done at these Masses have the approval of the local Bishops. Those who say that the music is somehow lacking at LifeTeen are implying that the Bishop is missing something. I frankly don’t have the gall to make such a claim against an apostle of the Lord Jesus.
Please, let’s not claim infallibility for the decisions of bishops approving music for the Mass. Do you have the gall to claim a bishop who covered up sexual abuse by priests in his diocese erred?
 
Which is why sacredness must be present in both the form and the words. And the Church says it is not personal preference, and that there is such a thing as sacred music and profane music.

Please, let’s not claim infallibility for the decisions of bishops approving music for the Mass. Do you have the gall to claim a bishop who covered up sexual abuse by priests in his diocese erred?
The main problem is that when abuses occur, the Church does give us the right to question what the local Ordinary is doing. In fact, in the area of the liturgy, Redemptionis Sacramentum gives the laity the mechanism by which to report such abuses.

Furthermore, those who care enough about the integrity of the Holy Sacrfice of the Mass (music included) now have the resources to make an informed judgment based on the documents that the Holy See has issued. No one can plead ignorance, in this day and age, because the documents are widely available.

Perhaps teenagares are moving more towards traditonal music because it is consistent, solid and is something totally out of the ordinary. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is totally out of the ordinary. Lest we forget: we are not the only ones present at the Mass. The Holy Sacrifice unites all three levels of the Church: Triumphant, Militant and Suffering. It’s not just about us and our community feelings and experience. Universal means just that, everybody. The music needs to reflect that.
 
There is no such thing as innately “holy” music. Case in Point: at work (microbiology lab), we sing a ditty set to the tune of Handel’s Hallelujah Chorus, surely some of the best music ever written–but we substitute the word “Gonorrhea” for “Hallelujah.” Bang–there goes the “sacredness” of the melody!
Actually, chant has always been innately holy music even before Christianity. It was used from the beginning as music to be used for prayer and a guide for spiritual meditation in various ancient faiths. It might have made it’s way into other realms, but it cannot be taken away as a form of music that had its origins for worship of various religions - ones that are still around and ones that have been long gone. Other forms of sacred music which was derived from chant in the form of Western Art music were sometimes banned before it being refined and performed in such a way to be considered holy and sacred enough for the liturgy. That is why many pieces of western art music will never be appropriate for mass, whereas some works or melodies which were refined were appropriate and good enough to live up to the standards that were set in the past.

I will stress that I am definitely NOT a “chant-only” type of person, but it’s something that needs to pointed out.

Also, yes, anyone can take the “sacredness”, reverence or beauty out of anything. You’re example was perfect and I giggled a bit, as my music friends and I have always loved doing things like that. PDQ Bach anyone?

I think what is important to remember is that there is definitely a standard the Church has set for music, as stated many times, and has encouraged us to try to live up to that standard to the best of our ability. Right now there has been a huge transition. Many styles or genres of music that have always been secular in nature have made its way into the liturgy without much of the refinement that took place to other styles throughout the centuries. Since it is still “early” perhaps a refinement may occur. It happened with polyphony, which was banned by a couple of popes prior to its refinement in the 1300s. After that it was accepted by all. Until this refinement or banning all together of certain works until the refinement is made, I don’t believe there will be any peace on the matter. I haven’t seen much, if any refinement at all, which I think is the major problem. It’s as if there is this power struggle. All the other forms of sacred music had to do it in order to live up to the standard. I don’t see why this new form can’t do it either. It’s no more special or better than the others that it shouldn’t be done.
 
Also, yes, anyone can take the “sacredness”, reverence or beauty out of anything. You’re example was perfect and I giggled a bit, as my music friends and I have always loved doing things like that. PDQ Bach anyone?
Let’s hear it for “Missa Hilarious”! 😃
 
There really is a “Missa Hilarious”:

amazon.com/Portrait-P-D-Q-Bach-Harris-Poor/dp/B000000ELL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1213444915&sr=1-1

This may be funny but I would never expect to sing it in church - well maybe if we had the medieval Feast of Fools still extant. (I’m posting this to show that all of us “serious types” are not as serious as we seem).

Sorry, Cat. I have to disagree. (But you knew that 😃 ). Music is not simply a tool for evangelization. We have 1500 years of musical tradition behind us and there are folks who are composing music that fits in that 1500 year tradition.

My sons are now 26 and 23 and they grew up with Daddy not only singing in the choir but singing along with the CDs at home. Both have an appreciation for chant. My oldest has taken it a step further and has started to learn Latin on his own. If we keep feeding our teens a diet of secular music with religious overtones, will we not reap what we have sown?

PS - Over the last twenty-five years that I have sung in the choir, we always have teenagers from the congregation in our midst. The idea that all teenagers are enthralled with “Life Teen” Masses is greatly exaggerated.
 
There really is a “Missa Hilarious”:

amazon.com/Portrait-P-D-Q-Bach-Harris-Poor/dp/B000000ELL/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1213444915&sr=1-1

This may be funny but I would never expect to sing it in church - well maybe if we had the medieval Feast of Fools still extant. (I’m posting this to show that all of us “serious types” are not as serious as we seem).

Sorry, Cat. I have to disagree. (But you knew that 😃 ). Music is not simply a tool for evangelization. We have 1500 years of musical tradition behind us and there are folks who are composing music that fits in that 1500 year tradition.

My sons are now 26 and 23 and they grew up with Daddy not only singing in the choir but singing along with the CDs at home. Both have an appreciation for chant. My oldest has taken it a step further and has started to learn Latin on his own. If we keep feeding our teens a diet of secular music with religious overtones, will we not reap what we have sown?

PS - Over the last twenty-five years that I have sung in the choir, we always have teenagers from the congregation in our midst. The idea that all teenagers are enthralled with “Life Teen” Masses is greatly exaggerated.
Boldface mine–I agree with this statement. But at the same time, the idea that all teenagers dislike Life Teen Mass and prefer chant and classical music is also greatly exaggerated.

Teenagers are individuals and they vary in their backgrounds and preferences just as adults do.

When my girls were teenagers in the late 1990s-2004, they preferred country music and Broadway, and my younger daughter loved opera. But they also liked the pop (dance) music on the radio, classical, and most church hymns, traditional and modern.

For them, what was most important about church music is the people singing/playing it. If those people were kind and loving Christians, they liked the music. But if the person singing was nasty and unkind and a poor testimony to Christ, it didn’t matter what the song was–they disliked the music.

I tend to be the same way–to me music does not stand alone. The song and the singer(s) and player(s) are one, just like a married couple is one. This is one reason I usually dislike listening to “stars” of Christian music (including Catholic music)–I don’t know them from Adam, and I have a hard time listening to their music when I don’t know if they really live the song that they are singing. I prefer knowing my musicians personally.

For example, to me, listening to Elvis sing gospel music is something I really can’t do easily. I don’t think he was evil. I believe that he was a Christian man who struggled and failed in many areas, just as I do. I can’t judge him. But I really don’t enjoy listening to music by him.

OTOH, listening to music by some of the people who cantor when I play is a delight because I know what kind of people they are in real life. They are singing about something that is real to them.

And here is a link to one Catholic musician that I know personally and love very much: paulasentovich.com/

Paula was one of the first people my husband and I met when we started attending a Catholic church before we converted. She is a delightful person, as is her husband, and her children. I would highly recommend this musician and her CDs. Very gentle music, but a great testimony to Christ.

It might surprise many of you who read my posts that I never listen to the radio, except talk radio and EWTN, but only rarely. I will turn the radio on when the weather looks threatening.

And I have only bought two CDs in the last…ten years? (Taylor Hicks and Elliot Yamin–two American Idol contestants that I really liked).

My husband is always amazed that I have never heard of most of the rock musicians that he enjoys listening to, even those who are supposedly “legendary.” I know who Sting is because he was on a “library” poster about reading more. That’s about it.
 
i absolutely love Christian music, especially Christian rock. when i came back to the faith, i fell in love with contemporary Christian and praise. i enjoyed Masses with this kind of music. i did not like traditional music and did not have any further understanding of it other than “i wasn’t feeling it”.

when i got deeper into the meaning of the Mass and learned about traditional music, i fell in love with it. they deserve to be separated and must be separated for the good of the Church. it’s not until you learn why it must be so that you really appreciate it. our teens must be taught this. we must allow them to mature out of the previous phase in order to grow as they were meant to.
 
i absolutely love Christian music, especially Christian rock. when i came back to the faith, i fell in love with contemporary Christian and praise. i enjoyed Masses with this kind of music. i did not like traditional music and did not have any further understanding of it other than “i wasn’t feeling it”.

when i got deeper into the meaning of the Mass and learned about traditional music, i fell in love with it. they deserve to be separated and must be separated for the good of the Church. it’s not until you learn why it must be so that you really appreciate it. our teens must be taught this. we must allow them to mature out of the previous phase in order to grow as they were meant to.
Now the million dollar question is how to teach this to teens.:eek:
Youth groups are taught by useless teachers, priests don’t preach about it, schools are Catholic in name only, where can they learn? I learned from my parents who learned from their parents who learned from their parents and the nuns at the Catholic schools, but where can we introduce tradition to teens? And how can we introduce it in a way that they will listen? It is very frustrating.:mad::o
Well, have a wonderful Sunday!
 
I take exception to the fact that there are “useless” teachers in youth groups.

Our seminary is over capacity, because of those “useless” teachers as you put it.

I’ve said this many times before, it is because of contemporary music at Mass that I am able to go to any mass and pray, including one with no music. It is because of contemporary music at adoration that I am able to go to our silent adoration in the chapel and enter into prayer.
 
agreed - I am a teacher at a Catholic school and most of us aren’t useless - that term is rather harsh.
 
I take exception to the fact that there are “useless” teachers in youth groups.

Our seminary is over capacity, because of those “useless” teachers as you put it.

I’ve said this many times before, it is because of contemporary music at Mass that I am able to go to any mass and pray, including one with no music. It is because of contemporary music at adoration that I am able to go to our silent adoration in the chapel and enter into prayer.
I guess it must only be a common flaw in Vegas. Most of the “Catholic” teachers here know less about their faith than most 2nd graders. I mean, I had to tell a Youth group teacher once that it was rude to refer to Jesus as “Dude”! And the Catholic high school here is known as the worst high school in Las Vegas. All the public school students agree that it is HORRIBLE!

I didn’t mean to offend anyone, and I am sorry if I did, I guess my only excuse is that I am tired of being a teen and telling people older than me that they are teaching heresy. Like the teacher who says that Christ didn’t multiply the loaves and fish, but that he just inspired everyone to take the food out of their pockets and share with each-other. This is the kind of thing that I hate.

One thing that I would like to ask is how on earth contemporary Christian music helps you pray? Whenever they play it in mass at Holy Communion, I have to cover my ears, because otherwise, I cannot concentrate at all, and I find myself either thinking of all sorts of non-religious things, or becoming angry at the rude or non-Catholic words used in the songs.

I had a traditional up-bringing where we went to either TLM’s or hybrid, or traditional NO masses. Then we moved to Vegas where the most conservative mass is liberal. It is very hard for us, and we try our best to realize that most people haven’t had the training that we have had, but sometimes…:nope: It is hard.

This Sunday, two out of the five songs were nice, the others, were purgatory. My family is jealous of me because I am going to Wyoming Catholic College where they have traditional songs and chant. I feel bad for them stuck here in purgatory.

Well, enjoy this great Feast of Saints Peter and Paul!
 
I take exception to the fact that there are “useless” teachers in youth groups.

Our seminary is over capacity, because of those “useless” teachers as you put it.

I’ve said this many times before, it is because of contemporary music at Mass that I am able to go to any mass and pray, including one with no music. It is because of contemporary music at adoration that I am able to go to our silent adoration in the chapel and enter into prayer.
You are indeed fortunate if you can have contemporary music and a semce of reverence in the same parish.
 
Ouch! I have many uses.
As I said, I am sorry I don’t mean to offend anyone, it must just be the ones in Vegas. I do believe in the system, but I have yet to witness a successful youth group. Congrats if you have one! And thanks for the good work!👍
 
One thing that I would like to ask is how on earth contemporary Christian music helps you pray?
they would probably ask you the opposite. perhaps you can try taking this to prayer, and putting yourself in their shoes, their point in their spiritual journey.

nowadays i prefer sacred silence or Gregorian Chant for the most effective prayer during Mass, but i do remember when i preferred contemporary music. at that time, it was the most effective for me while i was at that point in my spiritual journey, and anything else would have been detrimental. it would inspire a deep and profound love for God and set my soul on fire. the words were enough for me and even beyond what i could understand.

however, over time i continued to grow and chose to go deeper into the faith and it evolved into a love for traditional music. i can still pray listening to contemporary music, but not as well. i can still get to a profound state in prayer listening to it, but traditional music gets me there quicker, and even deeper. i still listen to it everyday, but outside of Mass.

if you don’t understand it, leave it at that, that you simply don’t understand it yet. it produces good fruit for the people in their state of life, but we should also be striving for more, to go deeper, and to eventually evolve, or at least understand and appreciate Sacred music (and hopefully integrate it in all Holy Masses).
 
I know it is not the popular point of view on this forum but I find traditional hymns painful to listen to at mass. They all have the same beat and many have the same melody… just the lyrics change! If I let that fact get to me at mass, I often feel like I am living the movie “Groundhog Day.”

I find Gregorian Chant wonderful for the proper parts of the mass but dislike them being used for: Entrance, Presentation, Communion, Closing or Psalm response, I know technically the psalm is included in the Propers. However, the psalms contain a wide spectrum of moods depending on the lyrics. Gregorian Chant, although it can sound peaceful and beautiful if sung well, it can not evoke the great joy or extreme lament that the psalms offer…however contemporary music can). I realize the GIRM thinks the organ and chant should take pride of place but I really think this is motivated by the authors personal likes because it holds absolutely no validity from a musical standpoint. Saying that one style of music is more holy/reverant than another, lyrics aside, is like saying God loves the Redsox but frowns upon the Celtics.
 
I’m 27, a seminarian, and I love chant and polyphony. I have been to orhcestral masses and love them. Organ and chant should have pride of place. The are the norm.

That being said, some realy need to recognice that LifeTeen is a Vatican approved movemnt of the Church, and that the contemporary music has been approved for liturgical use for the masses of said movment. Addidtionaly, verbs used to describe the function of a vaccum cleaner have no place in a Catholic Fourm, particularly in reference to a movent in the Church that has led many peple to Christ, and from which a high number of vocations has come.
I have to disagree with you.

The acceptance of Lifeteen isn’t infallible.

I was raised in a Protestant version of this sort of “dumbing down” of Christian culture. Ironically, I preferred our version of “traditional” as a child, which was bluegrass. The incorporation of so-called “Contemporary Christian” belied ultimately a lack of faith and a desire to “update.” It was only a matter of time before the traditional doctrine changed, and a prosperity gospel took over.

As for vocations, the heretic Neo-Catechumenals also produce vocations. So does the SSPX. Regardless of one’s stance, vocations alone don’t justify a particular aspect of the liturgy.

Take if from the standpoint of a professional musician. We don’t take “Christian” musicians (meaning Pop Christians) seriously. They are the laughing-stock of the music world, for a number of reasons. One is that their lyrics lack insight and mystery, another is that the musical styles employed in this genre often lack a basic appreciation of melody. You don’t have talent? You can’t write a decent song? Go be a “Christian” rocker. That’s pretty much the dynamic of that genre. If you want proof, ask yourself this question. When have contemporary Christian artists actually done something uniquely “Christian” musically? They don’t. They take contemporary secular styles and insert trite, often heretical lyrics about Our Lord into them. This isn’t true of the traditional music. Nobody can say the same thing about Palestrina or Mozart.

Thankfully, I found a traditional Church. A Church that doesn’t compromise with the “arts” of this blighted era, in which Christianity and the intellect are unfortunately divorced. I was a teen 9 years ago, and I firmly believe a distinctly Catholic culture has to be implanted in these kids. The contemporary mess compromises with an anti-Catholic culture and gives them a false impression that the Church can change at its core, when it clearly cannot.

The Church has its own cultural tradition. It does not need to borrow from an inferior tradition to be relevant.
 
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