Tell it like it is

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Hey OP-

Why are you not stepping in to keep debating Protestants from derailing your Thread?

Maybe you are busy- I cant watch mine all the time either but this guy was a pain on my thread and now he is disruptive here.

I thought this thread was for Catholics.

Come back to my thread if you must vent more Protestant brother who cant follow rules of posting.
 
mikemck said:
She’s correct. Nowhere in scripture are tongues listed among the essentials. They would fall under the heading of what Paul called “disputable matters”.
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St. Paul lists tongues as one of the gifts of the Church in I Corinthians 12, so my relative is wrong to say that it is from the Devil.
 
What annoys me most about SOME Protestants (certainly not all) is how they will completely dismiss what a practicing, knowledgable Catholic tells them about what the Church believes and teaches—up to and including showing them Papal documents, conciliar decrees, and Vatican directives—but they take as absolute, infallible Gospel truth whatever nonsense they read by people like Jack Chick, Loraine Boettner, Charles Chiniquy, Maria Monk, Avro Manhattan, Alexander Hislop, Dave Hunt, and the rest of the well-known crew.
 
What I find distressing, not exactly annoying, is how lost they get trying to re-create Christianity from scratch.

Some of the strange things my friends do because they read it in the Bible, and thought it applied to them, is just bewildering to me. For example:

Circumcising their first son at 6 days or whatever it was. It was too painful to repeat with the other sons. Obeying one’s husband although she believed it wrong and hurt her children. Telling a teenage son that he must never defend himself at school (although he was being beaten up each day) but must turn the other cheek.

Just this week several said that they’re worried about their teen’s faith, but if they can just get them saved, well … once saved, always saved. I try to get them to at least consider the importance of being right on that “once saved” philosophy.
 
Mike, it could be your ignorance of Catholicism that annoys people here. But you say osas is wrong. Other fundamentalists say it is gospel truth. See? None of you agree on what the Bible says. Thanks for proving my point.
 
mikemck said:
You simply don’t allow us to be united with you.
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Well, just for the record, I want you to be united with us. I want you to have what we have. I want you to have the consolation of being inside a church where Jesus is really and truly present in the tabernacle. I want you to be able to draw courage from the knowledge that the saints – and especially the Mother of God – intercede for you before God. I want you to find refreshment in the Sacraments. I want you to be able to appreciate the awesomeness of Catholic doctrine. I want you to have the consolation of the Rosary, and the light of Sacred Tradition.

These are hard sentiments to express, though, because they too often arouse indignation and defensiveness and suspicion that I am trying to lure the listener into perdition.
 
mikemck said:
I see. So then, do you disagree with the Roman Catholic teaching of ex ecclesia nulla salas?
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Here is the official Church line, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church at 846-848 (internal cites omitted):
How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers [outside the Church, there is no salvation]? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

"Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.
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mikemck said:
Welcome to my world. I’m constantly told that we’re not saved because we won’t join the Roman Catholic church. We’re not allowed to take communion at a Roman Catholic church because we’re not Roman Catholic.
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Here is the official Church line on intercommunion, CCC at 1400 (internal cites omitted):
Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.”
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In other words, you can’t receive the Eucharist because you are not properly disposed to receive It; you are not properly disposed to receive It because you don’t believe that It is what the Church says It is: truly the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. If the Church let you take Communion, not believing It to be what It in fact is, she wouldn’t be doing you any favors. “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself” (1 Corinthians 11:29).
 
jmcrae said:
St. Paul lists tongues as one of the gifts of the Church in I Corinthians 12, so my relative is wrong to say that it is from the Devil.
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I never said that tongues were of the Devil. What I said is that she is right to say that they’re not an essential doctrine. Not one time in scripture do we see them listed among the essentials.

As usual, I have to remind you to please read my posts before you respond to them.
 
cestusdei said:
Mike, it could be your ignorance of Catholicism that annoys people here. But you say osas is wrong. Other fundamentalists say it is gospel truth. See? None of you agree on what the Bible says. Thanks for proving my point.
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And, as you very well know, it is not true that I believe OSAS is wrong. I’ve been a consistent supporter of OSAS and have provided a ton of Biblical support for it here on these boards.

Is Mary really honored by your telling these false tales?

OSAS is not an essential. It falls under the heading of what Paul called “disputable” matters.

So far, not one person has been able to name one essential doctrine that we disagree on.
 
Victorious said:
Here is the official Church line, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church at 846-848 (internal cites omitted): Here is the official Church line on intercommunion, CCC at 1400 (internal cites omitted): In other words, you can’t receive the Eucharist because you are not properly disposed to receive It; you are not properly disposed to receive It because you don’t believe that It is what the Church says It is: truly the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. If the Church let you take Communion, not believing It to be what It in fact is, she wouldn’t be doing you any favors. “For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself” (1 Corinthians 11:29).
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But I’m in Christ, I’m a part of the church, I’ve made a profession of faith, and I’m not engaged in any ongoing sin, all Biblical requirements for communion.

Sorry, but God’s word trumps your church’s rules.
 
mikemck said:
But I’m in Christ, I’m a part of the church, I’ve made a profession of faith, and I’m not engaged in any ongoing sin, all Biblical requirements for communion.

Sorry, but God’s word trumps your church’s rules.
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dont protestants have communion…i do recall grape juice and crackers or was it wonder bread being passed around the one time I was in their church.
 
The only thing I will say is that some Protestants don’t know how to respect the wishes of the OP, who wanted this thread to be for Catholics. Hmm…another thing they can’t seem to understand.
 
Victorious said:
Well, just for the record, I want you to be united with us. I want you to have what we have. I want you to have the consolation of being inside a church where Jesus is really and truly present in the tabernacle.
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Actually, I’m already a part of the church and my church, (name removed by moderator)articular, is a wonderful Bible believing church where Jesus Christ is very much present.
I want you to be able to draw courage from the knowledge that the saints – and especially the Mother of God – intercede for you before God.
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We do believe this. However, that they pray for us does not mean that we are to pray to them.
I want you to find refreshment in the Sacraments.
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Actually, when we celebrate the Lord’s Supper, no matter how much you want to paint it as being shallow and meaningless, it’s a very fulfilling and edifying experience in the Lord.
I want you to be able to appreciate the awesomeness of Catholic doctrine.
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I can’t appreciate Roman Catholic doctrine when so much of it goes against God’s word.
I want you to have the consolation of the Rosary, and the light of Sacred Tradition.
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But why should I be held to counting off vain repetitions of pre-packaged prayers, when I can actually communicate with God?
 
Karin said:
dont protestants have communion…i do recall grape juice and crackers or was it wonder bread being passed around the one time I was in their church.
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Yes, we do have communion, although Baptists usually call it the “Lord’s Supper”, instead of “communion”.
 
%puzzleannie said:
only cest would think of this
My biggest and only objection with posts from many (not all) non-Catholics who participate in our discussions is a blanket statement of some “Catholic teaching” which completely distorts or mispresents true Catholic teaching. Which would be fine if they then were receptive to correction, but they continue their arguements even though we go blue in the face trying to direct them to the authentic teaching.
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My objection to anti-Catholics everywhere is that before they start fighting about the Catholic faith they should actually learn something about it. 99% of the time I spend three hours telling them that what they “KNOW” about the Catholic Church and Church teaching is wrong. If you decide that the Catholic faith is the enemy, you should try and learn something about your enemy.
 
Karin said:
dont protestants have communion…i do recall grape juice and crackers or was it wonder bread being passed around the one time I was in their church.
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Yes, they do.

When I was an Elder in a Protestant church, I was in charge of organizing services of Holy Communion, and the “valid matter” for that service was, in fact, Wonder Bread and Welch’s grape juice - those brands only, and no other. We were very strict about that, and I remember giving someone a real dressing-down for bringing in a different brand of grape juice, one time. The minister backed me up on it, too.

In our particular tradition, we believed that Jesus comes to the people with the elements - not in them, though - so it wasn’t only a symbol - but we certainly didn’t believe in Transubstantiation. What happened to the left-over elements after the service was over was that those who were helping with the clean-up were permitted to take the left-over bread cubes home and use them in their cooking - typically they made croutons for salad, and turkey stuffing out of them. The left over grape juice was either drunk at the time, or poured down the kitchen sink.
 
Why Welchs and WOnder Bread…is there some biblical reason for this?Or where these brands more holy than others?
 
Karin said:
Why Welchs and WOnder Bread…is there some biblical reason for this?Or where these brands more holy than others?
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THe Wonder bread sybolizes the wonder of how this can be respectful in any way shape or pardon me- form.

A “mystery” to me in this case, and may well be a “mystery” of that faith.

But the grape juice brand is important obviously- since President’s Choice brand would be a hypocrisy of multiple proportions!
 
Karin said:
Why Welchs and WOnder Bread…is there some biblical reason for this?Or where these brands more holy than others?
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Because Welch’s grape juice is pure grape juice, without any additives (and also because it was created especially for Protestant services of Holy Communion, originally, to replace the wine that was previously being used.)

Wonder bread because it is the only one that has a pure white colour and soft texture, like Jesus, the pure wooly white Lamb of God.
 
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