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FaithJoy
Guest
Who ever said the Temple will be rebuilt? Will not the antichrist rule from the mount and change Jewish law from that mount? Has not the Jewish law from that mount already been changed by another faith?
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Aunt_Raven
Guest
There is another thread on this website entitled “Why can’t the Jewish rebuild their temple.” There some intriguing postings there which may hint at answers to this question, which could also be stated: “Why the Jewish can’t rebuild their temple YET.” Go over and read it, for that thread relates to this one about the anti-christ.
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benidict
Guest
Ya Know Ryanoneil. I never thought about it this way, but I would agree with you. Hmmm. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks…Your view would be keeping with Jesus stating that the Jewish people would not see him, until they said "blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord. It would also be a fulfillment of Israel recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I firmly believe from what the bible teaches, and some pretty good indications within Catholic teaching that at some point the Jews and Christians will be united into one family once again. I believe this must happen before Christ returns also. Peace to you and yours.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I do also. I’m also convinced the Catholic/Orthodox church coming into communion will play a significant role in the salvation of mankind and christianity, and would go a long way with God today.Ya Know Ryanoneil. I never thought about it this way, but I would agree with you. Hmmm. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks…Your view would be keeping with Jesus stating that the Jewish people would not see him, until they said "blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord. It would also be a fulfillment of Israel recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I firmly believe from what the bible teaches, and some pretty good indications within Catholic teaching that at some point the Jews and Christians will be united into one family once again. I believe this must happen before Christ returns also. Peace to you and yours.
Though I don’t see the Blessed Mother as a point of contention, there were wrongs committed in the schism, that ammends must be made for.
I’ve read a bit from Benedict XVI and I get the impression and He has stated that should God be willing to allow him the time needed on earth, he will address the issues. He’s getting up there in the years, though certainly of clear mind. I know he wants to meet with the Partriarch of Russia. Apparently they have socialized and get on well. They just haven’t met to discuss the real issues.
Facinating mind, I’m looking foward to the release of Part II of Jesus of Nazaeth.
I been on a spiritual reading spree as of late. Teresa of Avila and both her writtings and John of the Cross, Dark Night of the Soul.
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ryanoneil
Guest
Personally, I don’t speculate whether Jew and Christian will be visibly united before Christ returns (even though I hope it happens). That is in the Lord’s hands.Ya Know Ryanoneil. I never thought about it this way, but I would agree with you. Hmmm. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks…Your view would be keeping with Jesus stating that the Jewish people would not see him, until they said "blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord. It would also be a fulfillment of Israel recognizing Jesus as their Messiah, after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I firmly believe from what the bible teaches, and some pretty good indications within Catholic teaching that at some point the Jews and Christians will be united into one family once again. I believe this must happen before Christ returns also. Peace to you and yours.
Perhaps “ALL ISRAEL” really means all. Maybe it is the cumulative total of Jews chosen by grace as a remnant (the elect). Maybe it is the sum total of both Jews and Gentiles who will be saved. I don’t know.
But I do believe the world will go through a final trial. And God’s united family will definately be know when Christ returns (if not before).
Peace be with you also!
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MarcusAndreas
Guest
I’ve been lead to believe that the antichrist, rather than being a person, is a belief and practice, presumably explicit, against Christ, such as the promotion of secular ‘values’, abstractions like ‘change’ and ‘hope’, etc. as our salvation, with rejection of Christ being mingled within, either through relativism or explicit anti-Christianity.
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GEddie
Guest
Saint Jon definitely expected the Antichrist to be a person, as our LORD is a person. In fact, there would be more than one A-C.
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FaithJoy
Guest
He will behead Christians and Jews specifically. A one world gov’t./religion will be brought on the scene… The question should be,is there any group or groups in the world today that would desire this behavior? That is antichrist behavior.That is what the Bible describes. It isn’t just warlike behavior or simple hate. It requires beheading and one world religion/gov’t.
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GEddie
Guest
Good point!
N.B.: The 2 most powerful “antichristian” systems of the modern era, the French Revolution and Nazism, not only sought to replace the gospel with atheism, but also beheaded their enemies.
And while atheism has been discredited as a worldwide belief system, Islamization has replaced it, and as we know, in places where it holds sway, beheading is alive and well. Morbid irony intended.
ICXC NIKA
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I Will Sort Of “Go There” And declare that I Believe The AntiChrist will Be Muslim and will Retry to Revive the Caliphate that Was Destroyed in 1923.
You Already See Turkey Leaving behind Its “Democratic State” Rules And Embracing Ever so Slowly The Old Sharia Law. Turkey Used to be The Seat Of The Caliphate, The Center of The Old Islamic Empire. It is Ever so Slowly Moving Back To being That Again.
Already the Middle East is exploding into Revolution All Over the Place. despite what the MSM and the “Chattering Class” says, it is Highly unlikely that the Places Rebelling will embrace True democracy.
The Demonstrators may want “Freedon,” But It Is Not the “Freedom” We in the West Enjoy and Take For Granted. Mostly they want “Freedom” Under Islamic Sharia Law. "Bring The Faith Back,"so to Speak.
When Palestine was Given the Right to Vote By Israel, what do you think they Voted For? Hamas, the Fundamentalist Islamic Organization.
Already The New Government in Egypt is being filled with Muslim Brotherhood Sympathisers and/or Members. There is also Talk of Doing away with the Promises Of The Camp David Accords. The Google Executive who helped start the Revolution and was a True Democrat was absolutely Forbidden to Speak at The Large Rally held some Weeks Ago to Clebrate The New Government. On the Other Hand, the Hateful Islamic Sheik Who was kept in Check by the Secular Mubarak Regime was allowed to Spread His Vileness To A Crowd Of Adoring, Chanting Supporters.
In Lybia, “Freedom-Loving Demontrators” Burned Ghaddafi in Effigy with a Star Of David on His Forehead and Anti-Semitic Slogans in Placards around the Effigy. Labeling One As A Jew Is One of The Supreme Insults In the Islamic World.
You WILL not see Women Given Equal Rights in the Muslim Countries under these New “Democracies.” You WILL not see Freedom Of Speech. Of Assembly. Of Whatever.
Eventually, Turkey will Join In The Fray in A Few Years.
And then you will (in a Few Years More) see a Revived Islamic Empire.
Then you could see The Antichrist come Back.
The Bible Prophecies Line Up With That.
May God have Mercy On Us.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I share in Your Prayers.This is interesting. Look what is happening in the Middle east as we speak. What is the goal of those who are overthrowing the existing powers here? Not saying I agree with this scenario, but…
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benidict
Guest
Yes, the final trial is pretty much all we have that is set in stone before the Lords return. I will admit, Although I have a very good hope for the Jewish people, much of of what I share is speculation. Im not dogmatic one way or the other. I used to be…But Im not a Baptist anymore
Things were so much simpler then. LOL! Peace
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Aunt_Raven
Guest
There is a Catholic book which will give you much to think about on this topic ( particularly intriguing considering what’s happening now in the Middle East). This book is the subject of a new CAF forum, which I recommend you search out and look at; it’s called:
“The Apocalypse—Letter by Letter, by Steven Paul”
“The Apocalypse—Letter by Letter, by Steven Paul”
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benidict
Guest
Im gonna buy it. I know there is little written by Catholics on this subject and for very good reason. but everything I have read, has been alot more in line with what the bible actually teaches imho. If the Magesterium ever comes out with some more insights to these prophecies, it would be wise to listen and heed what they tell us. PeaceThere is a Catholic book which will give you much to think about on this topic ( particularly intriguing considering what’s happening now in the Middle East). This book is the subject of a new CAF forum, which I recommend you search out and look at; it’s called:
“The Apocalypse—Letter by Letter, by Steven Paul”
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Aunt_Raven
Guest
Don’t look for the Magisterium to pronounce anything on this topic, --as the Early Church Fathers have already commented as far as prudently possible on both Scripture and tradition. If you Google “Fathers of the Church Antichrist” you will get a good set of listings which will outline their prudent if largely forgotten speculations on how the a/c might be recognized. But you search it out, --you can be sure of sound teaching if a teacher or writer has “Saint” before their name, and you can trust what they say about the last times more than any contemporary fundamentalist who writes best-selling books on “the Rapture”
You’ll rarely hear any Catholic Sunday sermons about the usefulness of reading and meditating on the Apocalypse, even when portions of it are read from the lectionary --“Fr Popular” is probably embarrassed, if not annoyed, by these readings. Nor from your local pulpit will you hear homilies on the topic of the “spirit of the Anti-Christ”; most modern priests (at least in the UK) are very shy of mentioning “sin” “Hell”, or even “Purgatory” although they are really great on “Social Justice” and “sustainable living” which often don’t include Church teaching on artificial contraception, the need to vigorously oppose pro -abortion, pro-euthanasia, and pro-homosexual legislation. However it’s not entirely the priests’ fault; they take their cue from Bishops who are (with a few heroic exceptions) pretty spineless. They have forgotten, or want to ignore, that the Church has the prophetic duty to be countercultural when Caesar abrogates to himself the things of God. (such bad laws are the spirit of the Anti-Christ alive and well in politics and social engineering according to the ideology of the moment)
However Pope B16 (a man with a spine as well as a brain and a heart) has in some of his Wednesday talks referred to a couple of prescient authors of great (if obscure) literature which he has said may well be guides to recognizing scenarios in which the a/c could manifest on the political scene. Great novels/literature – like other great art, deal with the truth of the human condition; and as such is of God; and the Holy Father knows that; and wants us to remember this in an age which most popular art is debased, trivial, narcissistic, and/or obscene.
You can also look at approved private revelations, which hint at “the lateness of the hour” for this (our) age; notably The diary of St Faustina , Fatima and Sr Lucia’s last writings, in which she says we are in certain chapters of the Apocalypse now (8 & 13 if I recall correctly), though most don’t recognize it. There was a mystic nun in Equador in the 17th century who had a lot to say about our times which is sobering as much of the messages about the future have come to pass already. You can find it in the archives page of the Spirit Daily Website --lotta good stuff there which you otherwise may never hear of. The index is alphabetical by topic so is quite useful. The only caveat I give is not to start accessing these articles unless you have several hours to be totally fascinated.
You’ll rarely hear any Catholic Sunday sermons about the usefulness of reading and meditating on the Apocalypse, even when portions of it are read from the lectionary --“Fr Popular” is probably embarrassed, if not annoyed, by these readings. Nor from your local pulpit will you hear homilies on the topic of the “spirit of the Anti-Christ”; most modern priests (at least in the UK) are very shy of mentioning “sin” “Hell”, or even “Purgatory” although they are really great on “Social Justice” and “sustainable living” which often don’t include Church teaching on artificial contraception, the need to vigorously oppose pro -abortion, pro-euthanasia, and pro-homosexual legislation. However it’s not entirely the priests’ fault; they take their cue from Bishops who are (with a few heroic exceptions) pretty spineless. They have forgotten, or want to ignore, that the Church has the prophetic duty to be countercultural when Caesar abrogates to himself the things of God. (such bad laws are the spirit of the Anti-Christ alive and well in politics and social engineering according to the ideology of the moment)
However Pope B16 (a man with a spine as well as a brain and a heart) has in some of his Wednesday talks referred to a couple of prescient authors of great (if obscure) literature which he has said may well be guides to recognizing scenarios in which the a/c could manifest on the political scene. Great novels/literature – like other great art, deal with the truth of the human condition; and as such is of God; and the Holy Father knows that; and wants us to remember this in an age which most popular art is debased, trivial, narcissistic, and/or obscene.
You can also look at approved private revelations, which hint at “the lateness of the hour” for this (our) age; notably The diary of St Faustina , Fatima and Sr Lucia’s last writings, in which she says we are in certain chapters of the Apocalypse now (8 & 13 if I recall correctly), though most don’t recognize it. There was a mystic nun in Equador in the 17th century who had a lot to say about our times which is sobering as much of the messages about the future have come to pass already. You can find it in the archives page of the Spirit Daily Website --lotta good stuff there which you otherwise may never hear of. The index is alphabetical by topic so is quite useful. The only caveat I give is not to start accessing these articles unless you have several hours to be totally fascinated.
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benidict
Guest
thank you very much Sister. I shall look these up. I am a former premillinialist, and former Baptist. so I think I shy from anything that fits that mold. I am however, very interested in what the ECF stated. The writings I have been able to find although smaller in content, make much more sense from a Catholic perspective. Thank you and God Bless you and yours.Don’t look for the Magisterium to pronounce anything on this topic, --as the Early Church Fathers have already commented as far as prudently possible on both Scripture and tradition. If you Google “Fathers of the Church Antichrist” you will get a good set of listings which will outline their prudent if largely forgotten speculations on how the a/c might be recognized. But you search it out, --you can be sure of sound teaching if a teacher or writer has “Saint” before their name, and you can trust what they say about the last times more than any contemporary fundamentalist who writes best-selling books on “the Rapture”
You’ll rarely hear any Catholic Sunday sermons about the usefulness of reading and meditating on the Apocalypse, even when portions of it are read from the lectionary --“Fr Popular” is probably embarrassed, if not annoyed, by these readings. Nor from your local pulpit will you hear homilies on the topic of the “spirit of the Anti-Christ”; most modern priests (at least in the UK) are very shy of mentioning “sin” “Hell”, or even “Purgatory” although they are really great on “Social Justice” and “sustainable living” which often don’t include Church teaching on artificial contraception, the need to vigorously oppose pro -abortion, pro-euthanasia, and pro-homosexual legislation. However it’s not entirely the priests’ fault; they take their cue from Bishops who are (with a few heroic exceptions) pretty spineless. They have forgotten, or want to ignore, that the Church has the prophetic duty to be countercultural when Caesar abrogates to himself the things of God. (such bad laws are the spirit of the Anti-Christ alive and well in politics and social engineering according to the ideology of the moment)
However Pope B16 (a man with a spine as well as a brain and a heart) has in some of his Wednesday talks referred to a couple of prescient authors of great (if obscure) literature which he has said may well be guides to recognizing scenarios in which the a/c could manifest on the political scene. Great novels/literature – like other great art, deal with the truth of the human condition; and as such is of God; and the Holy Father knows that; and wants us to remember this in an age which most popular art is debased, trivial, narcissistic, and/or obscene.
You can also look at approved private revelations, which hint at “the lateness of the hour” for this (our) age; notably The diary of St Faustina , Fatima and Sr Lucia’s last writings, in which she says we are in certain chapters of the Apocalypse now (8 & 13 if I recall correctly), though most don’t recognize it. There was a mystic nun in Equador in the 17th century who had a lot to say about our times which is sobering as much of the messages about the future have come to pass already. You can find it in the archives page of the Spirit Daily Website --lotta good stuff there which you otherwise may never hear of. The index is alphabetical by topic so is quite useful. The only caveat I give is not to start accessing these articles unless you have several hours to be totally fascinated.
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rinnie
Guest
It kind of makes you wonder if thats what is going to bring Christians and Jews together finally.
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ryanoneil
Guest
It didn’t bring them together in the first century when Nero was killing them.
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rinnie
Guest
Hopefully times change and not always for the worst. Hopefully we can change history repeating itself:shrug:
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kenofken
Guest
One of the oddest theories about the antichrist came from one of my late grandmothers. She was far and away the most devout Catholic our line ever produced, but she also had a thing for some crackpot televangelists. She was convinced that King Juan Carlos of Spain would be revealed to be the antichrist! Has anyone else ever heard of such a thing? I’m guessing she got that from one of the oddball TV preachers or some conspiracy magazine, but I’m not sure.
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