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ryanoneil
Guest
Hopefully!
- Status
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benidict
Guest
Jack Van Impe was promoting this idea some years back.
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Moro_Rock
Guest
Hello,
In Ch.12 the great Red Dragon (Satan) pursues the Woman (both Mary and the Church )
In Ch.13 the Beast of the Sea is a political system which oppresses the People of God (the Church)
Rev.13 V11 the Beast which rose out of the earth means the False Prophet ( the False Church) the Great Red Dragon, the Beast of the Sea and the Beast which rose out of the Earth.
an Unholy Trinity !
In Ch.12 the great Red Dragon (Satan) pursues the Woman (both Mary and the Church )
In Ch.13 the Beast of the Sea is a political system which oppresses the People of God (the Church)
Rev.13 V11 the Beast which rose out of the earth means the False Prophet ( the False Church) the Great Red Dragon, the Beast of the Sea and the Beast which rose out of the Earth.
an Unholy Trinity !
A
Aunt_Raven
Guest
Um, yes, but for a bit more help understanding what “the sea” and “the earth” represent ( useful for identifying political beasts when they appear from these symbolic habitats) --I suggest reading “Apocalypse Letter by Letter” by Catholic layman Steven Paul.
There is a forum elsewhere on this Catholic Answers Website discussing this little-known but important book, and I suggest going to have a look at it. When the time comes, it will help Beast-watchers write their own “Field guide to the Fauna of the Apocalypse.”
G
GEddie
Guest
I love it.
Um, yes, but for a bit more help understanding what “the sea” and “the earth” represent ( useful for identifying political beasts when they appear from these symbolic habitats) --I suggest reading “Apocalypse Letter by Letter” by Catholic layman Steven Paul.
There is a forum elsewhere on this Catholic Answers Website discussing this little-known but important book, and I suggest going to have a look at it. When the time comes, it will help Beast-watchers write their own “Field guide to the Fauna of the Apocalypse.”
A priest I knew who once served in Central Africa, told me that a child there said to him that Rev. was his favorite book of Scripture. When asked why, the kid said, “because of all the different beasts”.
God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
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Pax_in_Veritate
Guest
This is the type of irresponsible and inconsiderate self serving speculation that I believe is sinful.
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Wesley7
Guest
I’m surprised to see the popularity of this thread since it was created months ago.
R
ryanoneil
Guest
sea = Gentile people
land = Jewish people
The sea beast is associated with the Roman Empire and the land beast is associated with the first century Jewish leadership that allied with Rome for their religious and political lives. I don’t think there is necessarily a future fulfillment although recapitulation is possible. I believe Gog and Magog are next and don’t even begin to speculate who the players are in that scenario.
land = Jewish people
The sea beast is associated with the Roman Empire and the land beast is associated with the first century Jewish leadership that allied with Rome for their religious and political lives. I don’t think there is necessarily a future fulfillment although recapitulation is possible. I believe Gog and Magog are next and don’t even begin to speculate who the players are in that scenario.
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trdchubi
Guest
Turkey has a role on this. I think everyone here knew that Turkey is vying for an EU seat. Lets presume that Turkey did get that seat, that’s an automatic sharia law for all EU members.He is Notradamus’s MABUS. who has been Identified as Everybody from Bush II to Obama to a Combination of Both.
Personally (and Seriously):
Some Prophecy Experts (Catholic and Protestant) have declared The Coming AntiChrist to be Probably a Muslim, most likely from Turkey, which used to be The Seat Of The Islamic Caliphate for Centuries and (as of late) has been Slowly Regressing Into Anti-Democratic Authoritarianism and Islamic Resurgence.
According to These Prophets, The Antichrist will Try To Revive The Caliphate and make Islam The Controlling Religion In The World.
Yes they just need 20 percent muslim population of the entire EU to pass a resolution and implement sharia law. No need for an islamic invasion of Europe. No more wars. They are all preparing to embrace islam through political reforms.
Okay but every die hard European will be against it, you might ask. Yes but in reality, the political leaders and politicians of the European Union has the last say. They generally support the ascension of Turkey in the EU, together with its new reforms and agenda for the union.
Is this Europe’s Trojan Horse? Do you think it’s a long shot? Here is the scenario:
EU Population: 2010 est. 500,000,000
Turkey: 2009 est. 74,000,000
Note: more muslim as it goes dark green.
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trdchubi
Guest
Okay I hear you. Let us work on our Inspired common sense then.
Okay lets start with qualification of a prophet of God. Let’s pick muhammad first:
- Is he an Israelite?
- Did he speak not of his own accord or in their own name or any other, but in the Name of the Lord only?
- Is his prophecies consistent with prior revelation?
- Did his Prophecies encourage idolatry or any other sin that is deplorable to God?
- Did his prophecies ever came true?
- Is he a righteous and holy prophet?
- Did he perform any miracle as a sign that he is a prophet of God?
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trdchubi
Guest
The events happening right now is the mobilization of radical islam to surround Israel with islamic fundamentalist countries. A staging ground…This is interesting. Look what is happening in the Middle east as we speak. What is the goal of those who are overthrowing the existing powers here? Not saying I agree with this scenario, but…
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trdchubi
Guest
Some people say that the Mahdi is the spirit of muhammad himself.
T
trdchubi
Guest
Who wants the destruction of Israel? Who were using the same system of hittler’s Nazism? Common sense tells me that the other “son” is being used by satan to annihilate the Chosen ones to discredit God which if satan ever succeeds, will eventually make God a liar.What did Isaiah say?
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness”
Zechariah?
**“It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.”
Why must the Jews be killed? Continue to ask yourself that, and if theres an answer beside “mankinds history” is the war of good and evil. Then I am missing something. **
Is the Catholic Church not being called evil today? Wow is all I could say. Frightening real is what Gods word and His Prophets are.
Got me on bended knee Praying.
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trdchubi
Guest
The antichrist go hand and hand with the whore of Babylon. The fundamental bigots like dave hunts and the john hagees of the Christian fundamentalist explicitly portrait it as the Catholic Church.
Well since these so called christain pastors are literalists, let us breakdown the Whore of Babylon as described in revelation literally.
Revelation 17
Who control the world powers of today specifically the U.S.
Why is it that alternative energy sources, actually those that are cleaner disregarded, research and development shutdown?
Who produces most of it?
Can we clearly say that the Wine of the Harlot is OIL.
Can we say that the rise of the whore’s religion is now being felt throughout the world through billions of petro money?
How about Oil Money being used to fund the destruction of the Jewish and Christian faith?
This is what we get when we interpret it literally. And I think those fundamental Christians should divert all their efforts elsewhere and not towards my Church.
Oh by the way that city also lies on seven hills.
Well since these so called christain pastors are literalists, let us breakdown the Whore of Babylon as described in revelation literally.
Revelation 17
What is that most valuable commodity that run all major manufacture infrastructure, agriculture, economy, transportation, utilites, etc. of the world today?
Who control the world powers of today specifically the U.S.
Why is it that alternative energy sources, actually those that are cleaner disregarded, research and development shutdown?
Who produces most of it?
Can we say that we are getting most of our energy source from the desert literally?
Can we clearly say that the Wine of the Harlot is OIL.
Can we say that the rise of the whore’s religion is now being felt throughout the world through billions of petro money?
Do we see one beautiful city in the desert that is presently embellish with Gold, precious stones and pearls right now?
What kind of “spiritual prostitution" is being promoted their right now? Is it Idolatry, i.e bowing five times a day and a pilgrimage of at least once in a lifetime.
How many times do we hear of Christian martyred because they would not renounce their faith on Yehushuah? How free are the Christians, in proclaiming the Good news of our Lord Jesus Christ in their countries? How many have died because they were harassed, sanctioned, threatened by the authorities under shariah law? How about the people who came to know the Lord Jesus who were killed and cast out by their own people because they embraced Christianity?
How about Oil Money being used to fund the destruction of the Jewish and Christian faith?
This is what we get when we interpret it literally. And I think those fundamental Christians should divert all their efforts elsewhere and not towards my Church.
Oh by the way that city also lies on seven hills.
T
thecrossofjesus
Guest
From the Prophecy of the greatest mystic of the Catholic Church
Marie julie jahenny
The Apostasy is already here and occuring since Vatican 2
Do your homework True Catholic…read catholic Prophecy the book
details all the popes saints mystics before vatican 2 warning us about it, the great chastisement, three days of darkness…
in 1904 Marie Julie is approved by the Church why is she not a saint after you read her bigraphy and writings, she bore the stigmata…
its because of this…were already in Great Apostasy…Vaticans 2 trying to protestanize the Church and it will get worse…
THE CONSPIRACY TO INVENT THE “NEW MASS”
On November 27, 1902 and May 10, 1904, Our Lord and Our Lady announced the conspiracy to invent the “New Mass”: “I give you a WARNING. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a MASS that contains words that are ODIOUS in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this SECOND period … The FIRST period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The SECOND is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration … These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of THE NEW MESSIAH.”
(Therefore, it is the Jews who are responsible for the new Mass; and in fact the formula of the Offertory of the new Mass is inspired on the Jewish Kabbala. Jean Bustorf, in his Synagoga Judaica, the 1661 edition, page 242, gives the following words:
For the bread: “Benedictus Tu, Domine Deus noster, mundi domine qui panem nobis a terra produxisti.”
For the wine: “Benedictus Tu, Domine Deus noster, mundi domine qui vineae fructum creaveris.”
And Our Lord Adds: “Many of My holy priests will refuse this book sealed with the words of the abyss.” Then sadly: “Unfortunately amongst them are those who will accept, it will be used.”
When He speaks of “inserted sheets,” in the “Book of the Second celebration,” it seems Our Lord announces even the falsifications or personal wild innovations introduced in the liturgy by so many priests and of their own accord and without any permission from their superiors."
We can legitimately wonder if Our Lord did not mean the second edition of the Constitution, “Missale Romanum,” in which a page was inserted (surreptitiously? …) and which (falsifies all the number of pages of this edition …). A constitution which had three successive editions … which is a unique occurrence in the Annals of the Church! … And the French translation sent out from the Vatican Press falsifies the text, since the Latin text states that the new Roman Missal is “Permitted” in Latin … whereas the local languages would be authorized only after the editions prepared at the Bishops’ conferences had been approved by the Holy See. This French edition has: “We order that the prescriptions of this Constitution come into force…”
This is how things stand at the moment. And for the future, the consummation of sacrilegious abomination.
Marie-Julie saw that “there will not remain any vestige of the Holy Sacrifice, no apparent trace of faith. Confusion will be everywhere.”
Marie julie jahenny
The Apostasy is already here and occuring since Vatican 2
Do your homework True Catholic…read catholic Prophecy the book
details all the popes saints mystics before vatican 2 warning us about it, the great chastisement, three days of darkness…
in 1904 Marie Julie is approved by the Church why is she not a saint after you read her bigraphy and writings, she bore the stigmata…
its because of this…were already in Great Apostasy…Vaticans 2 trying to protestanize the Church and it will get worse…
THE CONSPIRACY TO INVENT THE “NEW MASS”
On November 27, 1902 and May 10, 1904, Our Lord and Our Lady announced the conspiracy to invent the “New Mass”: “I give you a WARNING. The disciples who are not of My Gospel are now working hard to remake according to their ideas and under the influence of the enemy of souls a MASS that contains words that are ODIOUS in My sight. When the fatal hour arrives when the faith of my priests is put to the test, it will be (these texts) that will be celebrated in this SECOND period … The FIRST period is (the one) of my priesthood which exists since Me. The SECOND is (the one) of the persecution when the ENEMIES of the Faith and of Holy Religion (will impose their formulas) in the book of the second celebration … These infamous spirits are those who crucified Me and are awaiting the kingdom of THE NEW MESSIAH.”
(Therefore, it is the Jews who are responsible for the new Mass; and in fact the formula of the Offertory of the new Mass is inspired on the Jewish Kabbala. Jean Bustorf, in his Synagoga Judaica, the 1661 edition, page 242, gives the following words:
For the bread: “Benedictus Tu, Domine Deus noster, mundi domine qui panem nobis a terra produxisti.”
For the wine: “Benedictus Tu, Domine Deus noster, mundi domine qui vineae fructum creaveris.”
And Our Lord Adds: “Many of My holy priests will refuse this book sealed with the words of the abyss.” Then sadly: “Unfortunately amongst them are those who will accept, it will be used.”
When He speaks of “inserted sheets,” in the “Book of the Second celebration,” it seems Our Lord announces even the falsifications or personal wild innovations introduced in the liturgy by so many priests and of their own accord and without any permission from their superiors."
We can legitimately wonder if Our Lord did not mean the second edition of the Constitution, “Missale Romanum,” in which a page was inserted (surreptitiously? …) and which (falsifies all the number of pages of this edition …). A constitution which had three successive editions … which is a unique occurrence in the Annals of the Church! … And the French translation sent out from the Vatican Press falsifies the text, since the Latin text states that the new Roman Missal is “Permitted” in Latin … whereas the local languages would be authorized only after the editions prepared at the Bishops’ conferences had been approved by the Holy See. This French edition has: “We order that the prescriptions of this Constitution come into force…”
This is how things stand at the moment. And for the future, the consummation of sacrilegious abomination.
Marie-Julie saw that “there will not remain any vestige of the Holy Sacrifice, no apparent trace of faith. Confusion will be everywhere.”
R
rinnie
Guest
Here is another thing, the Anti-christ will claim he IS God. Many claim to speak in his name, have new revelation etc. But the devil will try to fool us that he is God.
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patrick457
Guest
In his hand he will have sword and raging fire, and in violent fury the flame will burn: his strength will be blasphemy, his hand treachery, the right hand will be ruin, the left the bearer of darkness. These are the features that will mark him: his head will be of burning fire, his right eye will be bloodshot, his left eye a feline green with two pupils, and his eyebrows will be white, his lower lip swollen, his ankle weak, his feet big, his thumb crushed and elongated!
Extra points for everyone who knows where I get this from.
Extra points for everyone who knows where I get this from.
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Doxiemom
Guest
Anti-christ will emerge onto the world scene as a “man of peace”…a man who seems to the foolish world to have all the answers as to how to bring peace under a world governance, and a new money system that unites the economies. Eventually, religion is merged into one religion.
This man of peace , during the first 3 and 1/2 years is full of lust for power, becoming more and more controlling over every aspect of life by use of technology . The world will go along with all of this because he has the solutions to the food problem, the energy problem, medical services problems, , you name it problem.
The world is going to be eager for such a man because it has been devastated by natural disasters, crop failures, war, and terrible sickness. Oh, and yes, quite a few folks just went away , quite suddenly, and are no where to be found. Not all, but quite a few, were absolutly vital to maintain the systems in place. Chaos is the rule of the day.
He will get the Israeli treaty done! The 3rd temple will be built on the Temple Mount , but not its outer court, sharing the land with the Dome…after all, everything is , today, ready for that temple, exactly the way according to God’s instructions. (How that happened in of itself is a whole other story)
It is at this half-way point that the man is indwelled by Satan…the peace treaty is broken, and the worse of the worse begins.
He is not going to be a pope. (although the false prophet maybe an evil man who manages to be come a pope) He probably won’t be jewish, although he may be a half-jew as some have speculated Judas was. Could be muslim/jewish…conceived in violence.
Anti-christ will be a grand orator, charismatic, , His military background will be impressive as well as his politacl ability. He will not be american…america is not important , having been very dimished. He may be eastern european.
I think that all along there has always been a person prepared and lured by Satan to be Anti-christ. That is why , of all the many truely evil men that have lived each one was called Anti-christ.
But the man who will be him must wait for that time that happens only when the Father gives the nod . Not even Jesus knowes. This is steeped in some jewish traditions , some having to do with the moon, some with the wedding ceremony. - both of which i some of it but not all so my apology for the lack of detail. But i also do think that this depends on how long it is taking for us to complete the Great Commisson-bring the gosple to the whole world- and we are very very close to that. In addition, technology had to catch up to the prophecies, which is in place now.
He may very well be alive today, his heart hardened, but his time is not yet.
But it is coming, very very soon.
This man of peace , during the first 3 and 1/2 years is full of lust for power, becoming more and more controlling over every aspect of life by use of technology . The world will go along with all of this because he has the solutions to the food problem, the energy problem, medical services problems, , you name it problem.
The world is going to be eager for such a man because it has been devastated by natural disasters, crop failures, war, and terrible sickness. Oh, and yes, quite a few folks just went away , quite suddenly, and are no where to be found. Not all, but quite a few, were absolutly vital to maintain the systems in place. Chaos is the rule of the day.
He will get the Israeli treaty done! The 3rd temple will be built on the Temple Mount , but not its outer court, sharing the land with the Dome…after all, everything is , today, ready for that temple, exactly the way according to God’s instructions. (How that happened in of itself is a whole other story)
It is at this half-way point that the man is indwelled by Satan…the peace treaty is broken, and the worse of the worse begins.
He is not going to be a pope. (although the false prophet maybe an evil man who manages to be come a pope) He probably won’t be jewish, although he may be a half-jew as some have speculated Judas was. Could be muslim/jewish…conceived in violence.
Anti-christ will be a grand orator, charismatic, , His military background will be impressive as well as his politacl ability. He will not be american…america is not important , having been very dimished. He may be eastern european.
I think that all along there has always been a person prepared and lured by Satan to be Anti-christ. That is why , of all the many truely evil men that have lived each one was called Anti-christ.
But the man who will be him must wait for that time that happens only when the Father gives the nod . Not even Jesus knowes. This is steeped in some jewish traditions , some having to do with the moon, some with the wedding ceremony. - both of which i some of it but not all so my apology for the lack of detail. But i also do think that this depends on how long it is taking for us to complete the Great Commisson-bring the gosple to the whole world- and we are very very close to that. In addition, technology had to catch up to the prophecies, which is in place now.
He may very well be alive today, his heart hardened, but his time is not yet.
But it is coming, very very soon.
D
Doxiemom
Guest
I think that the rapture of the church is going to be blamed on aliens,
P
patrick457
Guest
My theory? I haven’t a clearly-set scenario on my head, but here goes:
When “the full number of the nations have come in,” (Romans 11:25-26) the Gospel will come back to the Jews. The Jews, as a whole (but not necessarily every individual) will finally recognize Jesus as the Messiah. I imagine that time will be - or be preceded by - a golden age for the Church, when all the divisions would be reunited, perhaps the last it would have before the Judgment. But then, things will go downhill from there. Satan will be unlocked and will again be able to deceive the nations. Many false prophets and corrupters will come to deceive the faithful, and the Church will experience the apostasy, when many would leave it for another faith (some sort of neo-paganism or other religious options, say anti-theism or whatnot?) I don’t (and can’t) claim to know how long it would take from the Church to fall from its peak, but it could be as long as a few centuries - or as short as a few decades.
The Antichrist will then appear, and do wonders - either supernatural signs, or natural displays of high genius - and become a strong and able political leader. He would probably make his way to becoming the head of a new nation more larger and powerful than the Roman Empire was in its height.
I personally think that the Antichrist would be a Christian himself, but he (let’s just say for the moment that he is a ‘he’) would repudiate his faith and deny the Father and the Son. In his pride, he would effectively consider himself a sort of superior super-being, perhaps even God Himself. Who knows? Perhaps (IMHO) he’ll go for a “we’re all God” thing, putting man up on the pedestal and encouraging worship of the self, condemning anything else as mere backward superstition that ought to be abandoned or even destroyed. That wouldn’t stop him however from using religion as a tool to rid people of religion, a la the Nazis and even Jim Jones. Maybe he would even use Christianity in such a fashion, if only to spread discord to the flock (again, like Jones’ Peoples Temple).
He will suffer some sort of ‘wound’ (either a physical or a metaphorical one?), his recovery from which will further convince everyone of his greatness - and probably divinity.
In a (subtle?) effort to lure Jewish Christians away, he will have the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt, ostensibly as a goodwill gesture. He will manage to do so, but to the shock of everyone, he’ll decide to make it a sort of sanctuary, THE monument to the ‘greatness of man’. He would make it his spiritual ‘seat’, and the nations will trample upon the holy city.
During his rule, two men, like unto Elijah and Enoch of old, will appear and preach once more with authority: “The time is fulfilled, and the reign of God is at hand; repent and believe in the Gospel;” the Church, itself undergoing from trials and tribulations within and without, will be invigorated by their influence and stand up to the truth more firmly along with them. A short rest would probably be given at this period of preaching for the world to repent, when the Antichrist can do nothing to stop them. There would probably be even various supernatural signs that would occur around this period.
At the end of their preaching, the Antichrist will persecute the Church harshly: many would either die, apostatize, or flee into hiding. Short would be the time of tribulation, but it would be severely harsh: imagine the atrocities of the 20th-21st century, times a hundred. Somewhere in between (perhaps at the final phase?), he will move against the two prophets and succeed in killing them, with their bodies publicly exposed in the city of Jerusalem itself - where many of the surviving Christians have taken refuge - as an example and a warning, and make much out of their deaths. The world would be thrown into chaos and disorder.
Let me stress again that this is just my personal, incomplete, theory (I’m well aware of the holes in my scenario), and even then, I don’t completely trust my own idea myself.
When “the full number of the nations have come in,” (Romans 11:25-26) the Gospel will come back to the Jews. The Jews, as a whole (but not necessarily every individual) will finally recognize Jesus as the Messiah. I imagine that time will be - or be preceded by - a golden age for the Church, when all the divisions would be reunited, perhaps the last it would have before the Judgment. But then, things will go downhill from there. Satan will be unlocked and will again be able to deceive the nations. Many false prophets and corrupters will come to deceive the faithful, and the Church will experience the apostasy, when many would leave it for another faith (some sort of neo-paganism or other religious options, say anti-theism or whatnot?) I don’t (and can’t) claim to know how long it would take from the Church to fall from its peak, but it could be as long as a few centuries - or as short as a few decades.
The Antichrist will then appear, and do wonders - either supernatural signs, or natural displays of high genius - and become a strong and able political leader. He would probably make his way to becoming the head of a new nation more larger and powerful than the Roman Empire was in its height.
I personally think that the Antichrist would be a Christian himself, but he (let’s just say for the moment that he is a ‘he’) would repudiate his faith and deny the Father and the Son. In his pride, he would effectively consider himself a sort of superior super-being, perhaps even God Himself. Who knows? Perhaps (IMHO) he’ll go for a “we’re all God” thing, putting man up on the pedestal and encouraging worship of the self, condemning anything else as mere backward superstition that ought to be abandoned or even destroyed. That wouldn’t stop him however from using religion as a tool to rid people of religion, a la the Nazis and even Jim Jones. Maybe he would even use Christianity in such a fashion, if only to spread discord to the flock (again, like Jones’ Peoples Temple).
He will suffer some sort of ‘wound’ (either a physical or a metaphorical one?), his recovery from which will further convince everyone of his greatness - and probably divinity.
In a (subtle?) effort to lure Jewish Christians away, he will have the Temple in Jerusalem rebuilt, ostensibly as a goodwill gesture. He will manage to do so, but to the shock of everyone, he’ll decide to make it a sort of sanctuary, THE monument to the ‘greatness of man’. He would make it his spiritual ‘seat’, and the nations will trample upon the holy city.
During his rule, two men, like unto Elijah and Enoch of old, will appear and preach once more with authority: “The time is fulfilled, and the reign of God is at hand; repent and believe in the Gospel;” the Church, itself undergoing from trials and tribulations within and without, will be invigorated by their influence and stand up to the truth more firmly along with them. A short rest would probably be given at this period of preaching for the world to repent, when the Antichrist can do nothing to stop them. There would probably be even various supernatural signs that would occur around this period.
At the end of their preaching, the Antichrist will persecute the Church harshly: many would either die, apostatize, or flee into hiding. Short would be the time of tribulation, but it would be severely harsh: imagine the atrocities of the 20th-21st century, times a hundred. Somewhere in between (perhaps at the final phase?), he will move against the two prophets and succeed in killing them, with their bodies publicly exposed in the city of Jerusalem itself - where many of the surviving Christians have taken refuge - as an example and a warning, and make much out of their deaths. The world would be thrown into chaos and disorder.
Let me stress again that this is just my personal, incomplete, theory (I’m well aware of the holes in my scenario), and even then, I don’t completely trust my own idea myself.
- Status