Temporal Punishment

[GreggAlvarez]

You might try reasoning with him, too. Consider this: if Christ has paid the “sin-debt” for you, and now no punishment is due to you at all, why will you die? Death is (temporal) punishment for sin. One who believes and remains in Christ will not die the eternal death of hell - but he will still “pay” the temporal punishment for his sin as seen in the obvious punishment of physical death.

I have never heard of that view. Although I disagree with it, thank you for sharing that.

It is not “obvious” that the punishment is JUST physical death. Temporal can have two meanings and they are vital to this conversation: 1. An event in time or 2. An even lasting in time. Obviously, you take the first one but why is that so if Christ says we will pay every last penny and Paul explains that there will be fire for us to go through?

But, Purgatory can be seen in two ways:

1. You will suffer agonizing pain with the hope of entering the kingdom of heaven.
2. You will be cleansed of all iniquities and unrighteousness to be made fit for the kingdom of Heaven.

In either case, you are saying, “My God, why do you want me in your immaculate kingdom if I am stained with sin? Can you please wash me so that I may be made fit for you?”

I know you do not agree with this because you have no studied this. Nor is salvation based JUST on Faith though. James 2 plus Matthew 6 should shed light on why it is Faitha AND Works.

 

[tobbias88]

Isn’t this why we pray for the dead? We believe atonement/restitution for sin must be done in this world or the world to come.

In 2 Maccabees 12:38-46, Judas Maccabee orders that sacrifices be offered in the Temple in Jerusalem for slain Jewish soldiers. The New Testament and early Christian writings offer some evidence for purgatory. In 2 Timothy 1:18, St. Paul prays for Onesiphorus, who has died. The earliest mention of prayers for the dead in public Christian worship is by the writer Tertullian in 211 A.D.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Isn’t this why we pray for the dead? We believe atonement/restitution for sin must be done in this world or the world to come.

In 2 Maccabees 12:38-46, Judas Maccabee orders that sacrifices be offered in the Temple in Jerusalem for slain Jewish soldiers. The New Testament and early Christian writings offer some evidence for purgatory. In 2 Timothy 1:18, St. Paul prays for Onesiphorus, who has died. The earliest mention of prayers for the dead in public Christian worship is by the writer Tertullian in 211 A.D.

Yep.

Just to get rid of confusion that may lurk for some non-Catholic viewers, we are clear that

"…when it comes to the eternal effects of our sins, only Christ can make amends or reparation. Only he was able to pay the infinite price necessary to cover our sins. We are completely unable to do so, not only because we are finite creatures incapable of making an infinite satisfaction, but because everything we have was given to us by God. For us to try to satisfy God’s eternal justice would be like using money we had borrowed from someone to repay what we had stolen from him. No actual satisfaction would be made (cf. Ps. 49:7-9, Rom. 11:35). This does not mean we can’t make amends or reparation for the temporal effects of our sins. If someone steals an item, he can return it. If someone damages another’s reputation, he can publicly correct the slander. When someone destroys a piece of property, he can compensate the owner for its loss. All these are ways in which one can make at least partial amends (expiation) for what he has done.

An excellent biblical illustration of this principle is given in Proverbs 16:6, which states: “By loving kindness and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for, and by the fear of the Lord a man avoids evil” (cf. Lev. 6:1-7; Num. 5:5-8). Here we are told that a person makes temporal atonement (though never eternal atonement, which only Christ is capable of doing) for his sins through acts of loving kindness and faithfulness."
catholic.com/library/Primer_on_Indulgences.asp

 

[fide]

I have never heard of that view. Although I disagree with it, thank you for sharing that.

It is not “obvious” that the punishment is JUST physical death. Temporal can have two meanings and they are vital to this conversation: 1. An event in time or 2. An even lasting in time. Obviously, you take the first one but why is that so if Christ says we will pay every last penny and Paul explains that there will be fire for us to go through?

But, Purgatory can be seen in two ways:

1. You will suffer agonizing pain with the hope of entering the kingdom of heaven.
2. You will be cleansed of all iniquities and unrighteousness to be made fit for the kingdom of Heaven.

In either case, you are saying, “My God, why do you want me in your immaculate kingdom if I am stained with sin? Can you please wash me so that I may be made fit for you?”

I know you do not agree with this because you have no studied this. Nor is salvation based JUST on Faith though. James 2 plus Matthew 6 should shed light on why it is Faitha AND Works.

You misread me, Greg. I did not say, first of all, that “the punishment is JUST physical death.” The punishment is what is needed - the length, the duration, the intensity, and the kind of purgation that is needed to do what it is intended by God to do: to make us fit for the Kingdom, and for our destiny. I don’t agree with you? I have not studied this? Where do you get your information, bro?